| Author |
Death penalty |
NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
|  Posted: 2010-06-11 03:25
nice idea, but dodas sugestion
Quote:
| 5 scout
10 frig
20 Dessy
40 Cruiser
80 Dread
160 Station |
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is a bit extreme
you basically lock a dead station-player for 3 minutes.... its easier to logg and return after the 2 minutes
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or what about an increase respawn-timer for ship deaths
each death increase the timer for some seconds (maybe scout +5s per death)
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-06-11 04:50
Quote:
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On 2010-06-11 03:25, NoBoDx wrote:
nice idea, but dodas sugestion
Quote:
| 5 scout
10 frig
20 Dessy
40 Cruiser
80 Dread
160 Station |
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is a bit extreme
you basically lock a dead station-player for 3 minutes.... its easier to logg and return after the 2 minutes
~~~~~~~
or what about an increase respawn-timer for ship deaths
each death increase the timer for some seconds (maybe scout +5s per death)
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We can work with the 2 minutes timer then:
4s - scout
8s - frig
15s - Dessy
30s - Cruiser
60s - Dread
120s - Station
It's only 2 minutes of your life. You could:
Go get a coffee.
Take a smoke break.
Bang your head on your keyboard in frustration at the loss of a station and some prestige.
Try to stand on your head and touch your nose with your tongue
Put your head in the microwave
etc etc etc...
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-06-11 04:51 ]
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Steveyk
Chief Marshal
Non Omnis Moriar
Joined: November 25, 2008
Posts: 162
| Posted: 2010-06-11 05:13
Quote:
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On 2010-06-10 21:24, Starcommand of ICC *XO* wrote:
See also, SteavyK. Hes the one who will do it 6-7 times all with unmodded ships, he did it to just a few of us when we were defending Paul once, took my SCB to survive all of the attacks. A re-spawn timer wouldn't be all that bad, one that just delays people from coming back in the same ship. Stations would be one to take the longest.
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Ok lets look at whats u just said u were at paul the opnly planet we have thats can spawn a station so since it was under icc control where did i get all the stations from oh i remember i had 2 in my garage and i just kept repping at the depot planet and jumping in. i at no point spawned a new one altho i would have if i could have.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2010-06-11 05:41
Quote:
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On 2010-06-10 21:24, Starcommand of ICC *XO* wrote:
See also, SteavyK. Hes the one who will do it 6-7 times all with unmodded ships, he did it to just a few of us when we were defending Paul once, took my SCB to survive all of the attacks. A re-spawn timer wouldn't be all that bad, one that just delays people from coming back in the same ship. Stations would be one to take the longest.
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Actually, Steve lost all his enhs on station cause he died so many times, since now he doesn't care to mod his stations anymore 
This is my idea:
- When you kill someone, you should earn the pres, and that one will lose pres. Then that guy spawn new ship and jump to kill you. So, this is an exchange that both side get benefit. Why? It's easy to see when 1 vs 1 same class, both get combat pres; when one opponent dies, 1 lose pres and 1 earn that pres. Then the dead guy spawn new ship and kill the opponent: again both get combat pres, the death pres reserses. In summary, both earns pres, not lose any.
- In the war of more than 2 players, the law is still valid.
- When someone is killed, his/her faction members have the chance to rep -> pres for crowd.
There is no need for death penalty. Quite the opposite, death penalty breaks the atmosphere of the battle, and the pres harvestment progress is suspended.
Pay attention that many players won't join combat unless conditions like overnumber and overwhelming are guaranteed. So, death penalty shall lessen the happiness of many people.
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Guyton (Angel of Death)
Marshal
Joined: January 25, 2004
Posts: 706
| Posted: 2010-06-11 06:01
Quote:
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On 2010-06-10 16:33, Sixkiller wrote:
I actually quite like this idea. Tough it is still subject to debate, seeing as I really like being able to get right back into combat, since that keeps the game entertaining. On the other hand I do see it happen a lot that someone dies, and then jumps right back in the battle in the next ship. I myself have done this a lot as well.
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I also like the idea of jumping right back into combat. Isn't it worse enough we have to simply wait to prepare for combat. or wait for their to be a force equal enough in size to engage to get a real battle going than sitting at stand off from planetside? Its a good idea jus for not a game such as DarkSpace I'm afraid, if there were enough players for a large battle well yea jump for the idea, but that simply isn't the case at the moment. I'm all for open ideas.
Aslo It takes time just to return to combat also, depending if you want the same ship or if you are waiting for the jump drive to come back online, have to take into consideration the jump times and how many jumps it takes to get into battle"
[ This Message was edited by: Sheppard(Angel of Death) on 2010-06-11 06:15 ]
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Condemned
Fleet Admiral
Joined: February 27, 2006
Posts: 21
| Posted: 2010-06-11 06:55
Quote:
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On 2010-06-11 05:41, Diep Luc wrote:
There is no need for death penalty. Quite the opposite, death penalty breaks the atmosphere of the battle, and the pres harvestment progress is suspended.
Pay attention that many players won't join combat unless conditions like overnumber and overwhelming are guaranteed. So, death penalty shall lessen the happiness of many people.
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No need for death penalty? Seriously, everyone would just feed each other pres, pres gain is too easy now compared to how it used to be, everyone can get stations with in a month easy. If it was upto me, I would raise pres losses since you loose around 150 for a dread and 250max for a station, that's nothing, you do substantial damage to 2 dreads then your station can die without losses... Imho, dread losses should be 250 and stations 350-400 since pres gain is so much faster now, losses should be tweaked too!
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Guyton (Angel of Death)
Marshal
Joined: January 25, 2004
Posts: 706
| Posted: 2010-06-11 08:28
Quote:
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On 2010-06-11 06:55, Condemned wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-06-11 05:41, Diep Luc wrote:
There is no need for death penalty. Quite the opposite, death penalty breaks the atmosphere of the battle, and the pres harvestment progress is suspended.
Pay attention that many players won't join combat unless conditions like overnumber and overwhelming are guaranteed. So, death penalty shall lessen the happiness of many people.
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No need for death penalty? Seriously, everyone would just feed each other pres, pres gain is too easy now compared to how it used to be, everyone can get stations with in a month easy. If it was upto me, I would raise pres losses since you loose around 150 for a dread and 250max for a station, that's nothing, you do substantial damage to 2 dreads then your station can die without losses... Imho, dread losses should be 250 and stations 350-400 since pres gain is so much faster now, losses should be tweaked too!
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Obviously you werent here for the last patch, prestige loss was insane! In short they created one of the Ultimate death penalties, ships wouldn't leave planetside for crap just for the fact the cost was entirely to great. Combat is the fun of the game, anything making it more aviodable just simply kills the joy. Prestige loss is fine where it is in my honest opinion. I believe others which played here before the new patch would agree where I'm coming frm on the matter.
Also I agree with what you said before. Players which have been here playing for years took them a long time before they could even touch Admiral, now players can make Fleet Admiral within a few months flying stations and dreads at will.
[ This Message was edited by: Sheppard(Angel of Death) on 2010-06-11 08:30 ]
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2010-06-11 13:45
Quote:
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On 2010-06-11 08:28, Sheppard(Angel of Death) wrote:
Obviously you werent here for the last patch, prestige loss was insane! In short they created one of the Ultimate death penalties, ships wouldn't leave planetside for crap just for the fact the cost was entirely to great. Combat is the fun of the game, anything making it more aviodable just simply kills the joy.
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While death pres loss in 483 was rather harsh, I preferred it. Such painful losses when you died made you VERY careful about your movements and your tactics. People would very seriously consider their tactics before engaging and organize plans of action with their teammates/allies. It made the game more of a thinking game than a button-masher. There needs to be negative reinforcement of poor piloting and defeat. That gives the word 'defeat' meaning. It is supposed to be undesirable. With the pres loss so reduced, this respawn delay is an ideal approach to resolving the issue.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2010-06-11 14:05
This is a fair solid and what I would think easy idea to implement. The only real question is the timers.
I feel deaths should be punishable by inconvinience just short of being truly aggravating.
I feel a good timer system relies on a significant gap between timers, such as:
Scout: Five seconds.
Frigate: 10 seconds
Destroyer : 30 seconds.
Cruiser : 180 seconds.
Dreadnaught : 300 seconds.
Station : 600 seconds.
And then, stack deaths. Lets you die in a dreadnaught and after five minutes take out another. If you die again within that five minutes, the timer gets increased to ten minutes or something similar.
I personally feel that the timer should be half if you die by planet, something a few would try on the verge of death but its not always easy.
-Ent
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2010-06-11 14:28
While I at first glance thought Ent's timer values felt extreme, I am inclined to agree with them.
Let us review the premise and structure of the game to understand why. In Darkspace, you form up in fleets to attack enemy territory and conquer planets. Your enemies fleet up to defend their planets and make their own advances into your territory.
The attacking and defending fleets engage in battle, eliminating each other's ships until one side is victorious. Assuming the attacking fleet wins, they bring in their bombers and begin conquering the territory they have earned the right to control.
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Now, lets look at the current game mechanics. Two fleets form, one attacking and one defending (planet hugging). So far so good.
When ships are eliminated from combat, the players return to the battle in 30 seconds or less with a new ship ready to keep firing. It is literally impossible to deplete the defending fleet's armada to the point that you can begin capturing the planets and expanding your faction's territory.
While the game is made fast-paced and action packed by the perpetual battles, it loses its meaning. A battle that cannot be won is a waste of time. It reduces the game to an arcade game, where people are fighting without reason. This makes the game have the durability of a simple internet flash game. The perpetual battle becomes boring and you realize you are getting nowhere for all your effort. Eventually you stop playing at all.
The fleets are not supposed to engage just for the poops and giggles of it. They are supposed to be fighting to obtain/defend territory. This gives their combat focus and directs their tactics (meaning you withdraw a fast ship from combat to shoot down that transport that is trying to slip through the frey and drop troops on your planet while the large ships hold the line to keep the rest of the enemy armada at bay, for example). Having a goal in combat makes the combat matter.
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In conclusion, the extreme timers proposed by Ent would keep people out of the battle long enough for the victorious party to take a couple shots at the planet they earned before the defenders may return to try to run you off again.
[ This Message was edited by: Kanman on 2010-06-11 14:29 ]
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2010-06-11 14:54
Quote:
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On 2010-06-11 13:45, Kanman wrote:
While death pres loss in 483 was rather harsh, I preferred it. Such painful losses when you died made you VERY careful about your movements and your tactics. People would very seriously consider their tactics before engaging and organize plans of action with their teammates/allies. It made the game more of a thinking game than a button-masher. There needs to be negative reinforcement of poor piloting and defeat. That gives the word 'defeat' meaning. It is supposed to be undesirable. With the pres loss so reduced, this respawn delay is an ideal approach to resolving the issue.
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Loss of pres should be higher for death is a great idea. However, not everyone is Veronw. There are many players choose the safe tactic like overnumber and overpower. And I scared that fate will be worse if pres loss is higher.
I suggest pres earning is lower, specific pres earning by combat and supply and jump. Pres of bomb, capture and scout should be higher, to encourage people train their skills and use the right ship.
Higher the loss of pres won't change anything, since the low rank player will stay in safe place and supply or spam long range wep while the vets go to front line. Lower the earn of pres may put them to be more active.
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2010-06-11 15:06
Quote:
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On 2010-06-11 14:54, Diep Luc wrote:
Loss of pres should be higher for death is a great idea. However, not everyone is Veronw. There are many players choose the safe tactic like overnumber and overpower. And I scared that fate will be worse if pres loss is higher.
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Keep focused. We are discussing a respawn delay, the pros and cons associated with that and how it would be effectively implemented. Changing the topic to an alternative solution (changing pres gain/loss rates) is a straight path to this thread getting lost in pointless, non-linear discussion until the idea is lost by the devs and admins.
The respawn delay is a brilliant idea and it would serve the game well to get the gameplay back in line with the intended structure of the game. So, let's stay on topic, please.
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Windless Storm
Admiral
Joined: June 06, 2010
Posts: 105
From: classified
| Posted: 2010-06-11 15:39
I'm supporting the time-spawn theory ...
As a lower rank player when you try your hardest and with some luck able to kill some bigger ships. Then to watch him reborn and burn your already damaged frigat or destroyer without giving u a time to refuel or get repaired (or even smile at your feat) is really heart breakning for a new players. It kills the desire to play more and soon he quits.
This will surely benefit the game and bring more tactics and seriousness to it.
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2010-06-11 15:55
Quote:
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On 2010-06-10 23:11, Lonectzn wrote:
For a dead simple solution, you could just say that all ships spawn with zero energy. Easier to implement, would not mean people getting annoyed sitting around in the ship selection screen.
Edit: maybe even an empty JD/WH. Would also eliminate WH fishing.
[ This Message was edited by: Lonectzn on 2010-06-10 23:26 ]
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spawning with 0 energy wont help. theres "enhancement" you can buy that instantly replenish it.
all it would accomplish were more money for palestar, which isnt a bad thing i might add 
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-06-11 16:22
Quote:
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On 2010-06-11 15:55, Jar Jar Binks wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-06-10 23:11, Lonectzn wrote:
For a dead simple solution, you could just say that all ships spawn with zero energy. Easier to implement, would not mean people getting annoyed sitting around in the ship selection screen.
Edit: maybe even an empty JD/WH. Would also eliminate WH fishing.
[ This Message was edited by: Lonectzn on 2010-06-10 23:26 ]
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spawning with 0 energy wont help. theres "enhancement" you can buy that instantly replenish it.
all it would accomplish were more money for palestar, which isnt a bad thing i might add
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isnt that already implemented ? my hive always spawn with 0 nrg O_o
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The only good 'ooman is a dead 'ooman. An' da only fing better than a dead 'ooman'z a dyin' 'ooman who tell you where ter find 'is mates.
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