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RE: ICC (QQ inside) |
Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
|  Posted: 2010-06-05 11:14
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3: make pulse beams/waves useful again.
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I have noticed that Pulse Beams/Waves are almost completely ineffective now. Pulse Waves because of their tendancy to wipe out friendly missiles/fighters (which you are more dependant on for damage than the UGTO or Kluth) which means more often than not, pulse waves are a liability to your team, Pulse Beams for two reasons. For one, Pulse Beams really lack range, for two, Point Defense AI takes way too long to engage targets. You can outfit an entire dread with Pulse Beams, and it will only shoot down roughly two or three missiles in that incoming missile cloud before the rest impact against your hull, with most of your Pulse Beams never firing a single shot.
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2: give us missiles with superior range and speed.
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It kinda does strike me as odd that the ICC and UGTO pretty much use the same missiles, even though ICC Is the long range faction. The only difference is that the ICC use more missiles. It would be like if ICC could use UGTO armor on their ships instead of getting the cheap knockoff called 'Composite Armor' that is crappier in every single way.
[ This Message was edited by: Leopard on 2010-06-05 11:18 ]
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Phellan
Grand Admiral
Joined: February 27, 2007
Posts: 220
From: Red Light District
| Posted: 2010-06-05 11:47
My biggest complaint with ICC is the lack of firepower. The few missiles you send off fly in circles around your enemy while they are pounding you all the while. Seeing how they are a long range faction though, more missiles or something would be fine, but my main gripe is the beams. Icc ships have way too many beams for being long range. Sure theres point defense but with their super fast beams they only need two or three slots. In the ICC combat dread I feel like I'm flying a really slow frigate for all the damage I'm putting out. If ICC is the long range faction more of the ships should be like the MD, and the ones designed for close combat like the assault dread should still have more projectils or short range missiles than beams because if you get close enough to a kluth or even a ugto to use the chemical lasers then your already fried by their beams and hulled by their torpedos. This way ugto's counter is to use carriers or tank and close to gun range, and the Kluth's is to jump in or approach cloaked. If the close combat icc ships had a bunch of those small fast salvo missiles and they were effective, I would be happy because I could defend myself up close.
[ This Message was edited by: JWA8402 on 2010-06-05 11:51 ]
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2010-06-05 12:16
Sigh.
I don't feel like quoting them, but let me say that it is incorrect to say that ICC Support Station cannot defeat UGTO Support Station (the difference is 1 core weapon and 10 missiles, the latter in ICC's favour (granted I was told it is pending a nerf)), and also incorrect to say that the Assault Dreadnought is weak compared to its factional counterparts. (I beat a BD and EAD in my AD on scenario just today, and given no one sings praise of my piloting I can only assume that it is because I fly a good ship)
Pulse Waves have a range of 400gu and that is great.
Please please please please PLEASE don't use this thread as a platform to launch complaints regarding efficiency of ICC ships. I am talking about difficulty of retaining range, not about whether or not ICC ships are strong - that is a matter for another thread entirely and I am unhappy people have hijacked my thread to launch complaints about the strength of ICC ships as opposed to their efficiency at their perceived tasks, which is "superiority at ranged combat" in a game where ranged combat causes people to log off, and "superiority of defence", which I don't think needs to be raised as the development should be well-aware of how little a great number of people think of ICC's alleged superiority of defences.
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Sputter{TB}
Grand Admiral
Interstellar Cultural Confederation United
Joined: September 22, 2004
Posts: 109
From: Pennsylvania
| Posted: 2010-06-05 12:52
Also just because everyone would like like to have icc better fit its role of a long range faction doesn't mean you can touch my AD, leave it alone its easily the best assualt dread class in the game a melts anything in its path, definatedly needed to protect long range ships incase of close jump and close range fights which is what this game is all about now
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2010-06-05 12:56
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I don't feel like quoting them, but let me say that it is incorrect to say that ICC Support Station cannot defeat UGTO Support Station (the difference is 1 core weapon and 10 missiles
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The UGTO Support Station has 4 Core weapons and 8 MK2 missile racks, vs the ICC Support Station has 2 Core weapons and 10 MK2 missile racks
[ This Message was edited by: Leopard on 2010-06-05 12:56 ]
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-06-05 14:58
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On 2010-06-05 12:56, Leopard wrote:
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I don't feel like quoting them, but let me say that it is incorrect to say that ICC Support Station cannot defeat UGTO Support Station (the difference is 1 core weapon and 10 missiles
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The UGTO Support Station has 4 Core weapons and 8 MK2 missile racks, vs the ICC Support Station has 2 Core weapons and 10 MK2 missile racks
[ This Message was edited by: Leopard on 2010-06-05 12:56 ]
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4 core on UGTO but only 3 fire, 8 total missiles but only 6 fire. VS ICC 2 Cores both fire on all arcs, 10 missiles 8 that fire. There evenly matched, and I have beaten an UGTO SS with my SS in close combat.
As for keeping range, well a fast JD will fix that as I said before.
A bigger Dico, that would be nice, people whine and complain about a dico, those are the pople you want to kill with it, they will log and there will be 1 less enemy to defend there planet. Its just like people who ban the use of the AWP in Counter-Strike, its there, its PART OF THE GAME, so its GOING TO GET USED.
People seem to miss label Planet Hugging and Defending a planet. Planet Hugging is when you have superior numbers then the enemy but sit there at your planet doing nothing but twiddling your thumbs. Planet Defending is when you are outnumbered but are sitting at your planet shooting back, thus defending your planet.
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Lunatiq
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 30, 2002
Posts: 292
From: Phoenix, AZ
| Posted: 2010-06-05 17:41
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Starcommand of ICC *XO* said:
A bigger Dico, that would be nice, people whine and complain about a dico, those are the pople you want to kill with it, they will log and there will be 1 less enemy to defend there planet. Its just like people who ban the use of the AWP in Counter-Strike, its there, its PART OF THE GAME, so its GOING TO GET USED.
People seem to miss label Planet Hugging and Defending a planet. Planet Hugging is when you have superior numbers then the enemy but sit there at your planet doing nothing but twiddling your thumbs. Planet Defending is when you are outnumbered but are sitting at your planet shooting back, thus defending your planet.
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+1
[ This Message was edited by: Looney Tickus on 2010-06-05 17:41 ]
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2010-06-05 19:23
Get rid of armour, add more of a long range drive-by kind of feel, increase speed and JD recharge. (on par with luth JD?  )
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Fatal Perihelion
Chief Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: April 15, 2010
Posts: 308
| Posted: 2010-06-05 22:50
Maybe theres a big diference between MV and Scenario..
But in Scenario,
if ICC gets Spamed by Stations, ICC may switch to MDs
which give them the advantage in range.
If 4 or 5 ICC ADs and CDs work together they are strong enough usaly.
With Cruisers you may keep enemy Dreads at distance too, untill
they change to Frigs to get close enough tailing.
And if ICC is totaly outnumbered and blocked, they may switch to scouts having range advantage, until sy is clear again.
So altogether with the oportunity do do missile spam with MDs and Stations,
ICC fullfill their role of a range faction imo.
Aint that why people complain about missile spam?
Whenever your way outnumbered, or have a team with no teamwork
you feel like a clay peagon.
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2010-06-06 02:00
its relatively easy to overcome the fire-limiting arcs. since there is a point where they meet, you just have to turn back and forth between the two and this allows you to fire every weapon on your station. i wouldnt be surprised if there were UGTO SS's firing all 4 QSTs in this manner, i know i do it for missiles on the ICC SS.
@ pulse shield: hadnt realized range was extended, thought it was still 250. its always hit friendly objects as well. seen a few bombers go up that way. i think its fair that it does.
@ pulse beams: they dont seem as effective as they used to be, not sure why.
@ range: we need something that clearly defines range as our advantage, and that can be used against both factions. a way to physically push enemy ships away would be ideal i think, in the first case. other options would be giving ICC faster JD charge rates, faster turn rates, or something else yet to be thought of.
in the second case its trickier. i dont have any brilliant suggestions; while you can blind fire torpedoes and hope u hit something it doesnt really work for missiles. it also doesnt help that kluth cloak is more effective than pulse shield since it makes EVERY missile targeted at the ship explode, not just ones within X gu. if our defenses were capable of holding off concentrated luth attacks it wouldnt be sooooo bad
[ This Message was edited by: Lark of Serenity on 2010-06-06 02:07 ]
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Rebellion
Marshal
Faster than Light
Joined: June 20, 2009
Posts: 730
From: sol
| Posted: 2010-06-06 08:44
dictor plats
+1
yes thare would have to be alot done so thay arnt abused
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