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RE: ICC (QQ inside) |
Mr_Morton
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: June 15, 2009
Posts: 30
|  Posted: 2010-06-04 19:01
hmm...what a conundrum...WAIT I HAVE IT!!! What if icc ships (albeit close range ships such as ad's and the like) had most of their weapons to the BACK of the ship so that they could have a catch my tail strategy. It would be a complete reverse of the normal layout for the other 2 factions, and that accompanies the completely different play style that the icc uses. it would also counteract the planet humping tactic by forcing icc ships to face the planet for maximum firepower. Therefore, if the ship wanted to move, it would have to do so very slowly as to not hit the planet.
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James 296
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 19, 2009
Posts: 141
| Posted: 2010-06-04 19:52
Quote:
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On 2010-06-04 19:01, Mr_Morton wrote:
hmm...what a conundrum...WAIT I HAVE IT!!! What if icc ships (albeit close range ships such as ad's and the like) had most of their weapons to the BACK of the ship so that they could have a catch my tail strategy. It would be a complete reverse of the normal layout for the other 2 factions, and that accompanies the completely different play style that the icc uses. it would also counteract the planet humping tactic by forcing icc ships to face the planet for maximum firepower. Therefore, if the ship wanted to move, it would have to do so very slowly as to not hit the planet.
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I shall name this the Fart strategy 
[ This Message was edited by: VADwarf on 2010-06-04 19:53 ]
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2010-06-04 20:08
"Spathi are good at one thing.....running away. We love to run away from our opponents while shooting B.U.T.T. missiles at them!"
I'd rather not see ICC turn into the Spathi.
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Rebellion
Marshal
Faster than Light
Joined: June 20, 2009
Posts: 730
From: sol
| Posted: 2010-06-04 20:33
Quote:
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On 2010-06-04 19:01, Mr_Morton wrote:
hmm...what a conundrum...WAIT I HAVE IT!!! What if icc ships (albeit close range ships such as ad's and the like) had most of their weapons to the BACK of the ship so that they could have a catch my tail strategy. It would be a complete reverse of the normal layout for the other 2 factions, and that accompanies the completely different play style that the icc uses. it would also counteract the planet humping tactic by forcing icc ships to face the planet for maximum firepower. Therefore, if the ship wanted to move, it would have to do so very slowly as to not hit the planet.
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......NO!
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2010-06-04 20:41
That is a pretty terrible idea, I admit.
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-06-04 21:03
BArd, you know how much i would like to agree with ya . But coeus agrees you and i cant agree on something he does. So here I trolling ur thread..
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$yTHe {C?}
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: September 29, 2002
Posts: 1292
From: Arlington, VA
| Posted: 2010-06-04 22:18
I think what you're all saying is bring back .480
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Sputter{TB}
Grand Admiral
Interstellar Cultural Confederation United
Joined: September 22, 2004
Posts: 109
From: Pennsylvania
| Posted: 2010-06-05 00:23
Quote:
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On 2010-06-04 22:18, $yTHe {C?} wrote:
I think what you're all saying is bring back .480
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if only that could be done 
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-06-05 02:40
Quote:
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On 2010-06-04 20:08, Talien wrote:
"Spathi are good at one thing.....running away. We love to run away from our opponents while shooting B.U.T.T. missiles at them!"
I'd rather not see ICC turn into the Spathi.
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LOL. Star Control FTW!
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-06-05 02:42
hmmm... What if ICC JDs had a double jump capability?
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Code Red
Chief Marshal
Non Omnis Moriar
Joined: September 08, 2007
Posts: 184
| Posted: 2010-06-05 05:54
I have to agree with Bard on this , my personal thoughts are to give ICC a chance to keep distance a faster JD recharge would help without making it too fast and thus turning ICC into a hit and run faction , shield recharge is my biggest bugbear tbh and hopefully "def mode" will solve this , this just leaves the range of our weapons which needs to be sufficiant to enable a ship (s) to lay down enough covering fire before the enemy can get into their firing range , if this is combined with what should be a very rapid projectile speed and therefore more accuracy it should make ICC a stronger opponent as all the talk of "learn to fly" , "learn to play ur faction properly" is old and wearing thin.
I also think that as it stands apart from my thoughts on ICC that the balance is pretty good and i have no issues relating to cloak , luth or ugto being op etc.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2010-06-05 06:36
These are the facts that I've observed, along with my suggestion:
1/ ICC not always wins long range combat.
- 3 ICC SS hugging Ooi lost to 3 UGTO SS hugging Isq. Since ICC assault fighter is weaker than UGTO's one, so UGTO just need to lurk behind the planet to avoid ICC's missiles, then it's the matter of time for UGTO victory. Should ICC jump to the location that can spam missiles UGTO? Mad? SD time? etc...
- ICC is considered strongest at long range. However MD can lose to Aricourt, as long as Aricourt stays out of Md's missiles range (2500gu), and within scanner area.
Suggestion: If UGTO has the strongest assault fighter, then ICC FI-8 must be the mightiest fighter to couter UGTO fighters. Logically, "strong at long range" means better than other faction at both offense and defense at long range.
2/ UGTO is OP at long range combat.
- 2 UGTO MC attacked the planet with the planet seige missiles. What an ICC tactic!
Suggestion: I'd like to say only ICC has IT missiles and extreme 4000gu missles. But that would be unfair a little.
3/ ICC is helpless at close range.
- Siphon would never attack an UGTO SS hugging planet 1-1. But it would do so with ICC SS hugging planet by staying under the station. No need to explain, right? A station full of missiles (especially IT) is an easy target for dread at close range, which contrast to Manual that "station is not an easy target at close range".
- Imagine ICC SS vs UGTO SS at 1000gu, who will win? Definitely UGTO SS, due to it's 4 overwhelming QST. Don't forget UGTO also HAS IT missiles just like ICC, and with stronger fighter, its victory is no doubt. Note that 1000gu is the dico field, so basically, dico still can't help ICC. Please don't ask for ICC station keep the distance with UGTO station.
- Who says ICC CD = UGTO BD? I've witnessed and assure that within 650gu, UGTO BD owns ICC CD. It's a question that ICC CD can afford to keep the distance farther than that with UGTO BD. Note that Ion fires 2 times, so ICC definitely do less damage in the same ammout of time compare with Kluth or UGTO.
- If someone thinks that by directing shield, ICC no need to care of managing movement, while UGTO or Kluth has to watch armor to fly in right direcion, hence Kluth and UGTO is harder to do in combat; please GET RID OF the idea. Directing shield requires to press correct four different numbers, hence complicated to self-employed. During the fight, ships always move, so ICC players may get in mess more easily than other players.
Suggestion: ICC stations has the same number of core wep like UGTO stations.
Set SI, QST, Ion to 700, 800 and 900 gu respectively. I would explain that ICC player mainly seek reinforcements Ion to push their opponent out of close range. What I suggest here, it's Ion will has its power rises when the length to the target gets shorter (just like the beam). Eg: 900-600gu, 1 ion = 50% QST; 599-300gu, 1 ion = 60% QST; closer than 300gu, 1 ion = 70% QST. In exchange, ION recharge time maybe 110% to QST.
People will complain that EAD will lose to AD when Ion get stronger. Tip: KEEP THE DISTANCE! It's time that UGTO player and Kluth player must mind of keeping the correct distance to ICC.
[ This Message was edited by: Diep Luc on 2010-06-05 06:39 ]
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Mr_Morton
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: June 15, 2009
Posts: 30
| Posted: 2010-06-05 09:10
Yeah...i realize that the fart strategy is a pretty bad idea now that i think about it...so NEW IDEA!!! (note i saw this on another topic so this is not my idea) anyway...what if the ICC-ugto-kluth balance was a kind of rock paper scissors balance of defense, energy, and attack, ICC would have high defense and low attack-energy, kluth would have high attack and low defense-energy. and ugto would have high energy and low attack-defense. So while in an ICC vs ugto match ICC's low damage would moderately damage the low armor on ICC but the low attack of ugto's would barely scratch the tough shields of ICC, however the shields would use up a lot of energy when attacked and that would force ICC to attack even slower, thus balancing the fight and leaving it up to tactics (and numbers). In an ICC-kluth fight, kluth's high damage would moderately damage ICC's high shielding, but ICC's low damage would still moderately damage kluth's low armor, thus balancing the fight. in a kluth-ugto fight, the kluth's high damage would decimate the low armor of ugto, but on the other hand, kluth would only be able to fire maybe 3 alphas at ugto before having to recharge they're energy, giving ugto a chance to moderately damage the low Armour of kluth with the low damage of ugto. This removes the long range aspect of one faction which as stated before, cannot work in a world of jump drives.
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2010-06-05 10:19
if the devs are interested in retaining ICCs range advantage
1: we need our major ships to have a significant range advantage. a couple versions ago, the best use of even the AD was to keep your range and bombard approaching ships with torpedoes and cannons. now the AD is best used as a close combat vessel (and generally outmatched by its counterparts on the other factions i find). ICC DOES need a couple of close combat ships in all the ship ranges to defend our long range vessels, but at the high end there is still more close-combat ships than anything else
2: give us missiles with superior range and speed.
3: make pulse beams/waves useful again.
4: give us a means to retain distance - maybe a field that acts like old tractor beams used to, pushing away enemy ships, or somehow affecting their speed at the very least.
5: we still have problems against kluth, as outlined repeatedly in other posts
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Xonbie
Vice Admiral
Joined: July 12, 2008
Posts: 1
| Posted: 2010-06-05 11:01
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On 2010-06-04 14:14, Shigernafy wrote:
- faster recharging jumpdrives (breaks with human tech, but that's just lore)
- (even) better speeds/turning
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Faster recharging jumpdrives would be nice to see but again leaves you with having anything other then 1v2 allowing them to close range on you with relative ease.
Better speeds would most likely be the better option, but the speed increase would have to be pretty large to make any big effect. As Bardiche said 2gu/sec = 20gu/10s.
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On 2010-06-04 14:16, SilentHunter13 wrote:
- Create shield reinforcing supplies.
Change the ICC to have a form of shield transfering supply.
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I would love to see a ship that is able to give shields back, considering that you can sit around for a while doing nothing waiting for them to come back on their own.
However if the ship is transferring its own shields it would make it an easy target, especially if its working in the heat of combat. Perhaps it should transfer energy to shields instead, but at a ratio that means it cant run around at full speed and it cant really use it weapons offensively.
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On 2010-06-04 18:36, Looney Tickus wrote:
How about increase the effectiveness of ICC dictors? Like to a range of 1500 GU
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Everyone hates dictors, so it is really a bad idea to do that, plus that would again promote planet hugging, which is one of the things that is being address in this thread.
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