On 2010-05-31 05:38, jackbob wrote:

who are you and what universe you come from.

let me put it to you this way i will use 2 navel ships.

say for example a destroyer at sea vsed a battleship at sea is it possible to slap a bb gun on that destroyer.

of course not its to small. well guess what. you just basicaly suggested that please think about that before posting about weapon lvling again. put it this way as the gun increases in lvl it gets bigger so would it be possible to slap a huge space cannon inside a small destroyer hull. now take into consideration a lvl 10 gun is huge because its ment for a station. there is the logics behind weapon lvling.


if people want big guns on small ships when they are trying to make this game pratical and not the grand centeral station of the crazy games that are not very fun universe. you really need to get a grip on relality or find a different game. i play this game because its reasonable with the weapony.

i have seen game where fighters could one shot dreadnoughts thats what you guys keep suggestion and its insane its not fun because people stop playing. so who are you going to use your riged ships on.

who are you and what universe you come from.

let me put it to you this way i will use 2 navel ships.

say for example a destroyer at sea vsed a battleship at sea is it possible to slap a bb gun on that destroyer.

of course not its to small. well guess what. you just basicaly suggested that please think about that before posting about weapon lvling again. put it this way as the gun increases in lvl it gets bigger so would it be possible to slap a huge space cannon inside a small destroyer hull. now take into consideration a lvl 10 gun is huge because its ment for a station. there is the logics behind weapon lvling.


if people want big guns on small ships when they are trying to make this game pratical and not the grand centeral station of the crazy games that are not very fun universe. you really need to get a grip on relality or find a different game. i play this game because its reasonable with the weapony.

i have seen game where fighters could one shot dreadnoughts thats what you guys keep suggestion and its insane its not fun because people stop playing. so who are you going to use your riged ships on.
[ This Message was edited by: jackbob on 2010-05-31 05:42 ]

On 2010-05-31 13:16, Zero28 wrote:
I wanna add somethign based on those 2 Naval Ships,
Yes DD cannot mount BB gun, But notice how the Destroyer Fire much faster at a much closer Range than the Battleships? the big guns the Battleship carry are more stronger yes, but fire at a much longer range and a much slower ROF

i Don't know if the Weapons level also affect Range and ROF (if they do, it must be a very small Changes between Dessy and Dreads cuz i never noticed) But righ tnow, we don't see much of that difference


at least range wise, if the Dessy PC is a small powered version of the dread's, it means it has less Charge energy in the shots, thus faster ROF and less range? wouldn't it be logical?


i don't say remove the Weapon LVLing, there there for a very good and already stated reason, but maybe "Upgrade" that system wouldn't hurt

On 2010-05-31 16:09, MrSparkle wrote:


My idea is and has always been to remove weapon leveling entirely and adjust weapon loadouts accordingly. We already have some of the necessary gadgets, like heavy variants of cannons. Heavy cannons should be equipped on dreads and maybe assault cruisers, and regular cannons should do the same damage on a scout as they do on a cruiser or dread, just that there's way fewer of them.

The biggest determining factor of firepower should be the amount of weapons, and that's because there's no defined roles for the various combat hull classes, and most are expected to fight the same way, from dreads to frigates.

It used to be like that, but the current thinking now is that dreads should not be so vulnerable to smaller ships because of some lack of desire to earn ranks or something if small ships did more damage.

On 2010-05-31 15:41, Drafell wrote:

P.S. I might give out some credits to the first people that can spot some glaring issues with the above data. I am well aware of a number of shortcomings. I am wondering if anyone else can pick up on them too (Development Team excluded).

On 2010-05-31 15:41, Drafell wrote:


P.S. I might give out some credits to the first people that can spot some glaring issues with the above data. I am well aware of a number of shortcomings. I am wondering if anyone else can pick up on them too (Development Team excluded).

On 2010-05-31 21:07, Starcommand of ICC *XO* wrote:

Seems your math isn't right, like the HP section and damage section. HP shows 1500 for a railgun as base and modifier is 175 (I am guessing that it gets 175 more HP per a level) but at level 2 a railgun has 1850 HP. Shouldn't it have 1675 at level 2? Same thing with damage it says a railgun dose 310 base damage, and modifier is 47, but it says at level 2 a railgun dose 404 instead of 357.

Also your projectile ranges aren't correct either. a level 2 railgun doesn't have 1225 range, its close to 1k.

Your ammo count isn't right either, base of 96 ammo, mod of -2 but level 2 has 92 not 94.


Those were the issue that poped out at me right away.

On 2010-05-31 11:30, Kenny_Naboo wrote:

Quote:

On 2010-05-31 05:38, jackbob wrote: who are you and what universe you come from. let me put it to you this way i will use 2 navel ships. say for example a destroyer at sea vsed a battleship at sea is it possible to slap a bb gun on that destroyer. of course not its to small. well guess what. you just basicaly suggested that please think about that before posting about weapon lvling again. put it this way as the gun increases in lvl it gets bigger so would it be possible to slap a huge space cannon inside a small destroyer hull. now take into consideration a lvl 10 gun is huge because its ment for a station. there is the logics behind weapon lvling. if people want big guns on small ships when they are trying to make this game pratical and not the grand centeral station of the crazy games that are not very fun universe. you really need to get a grip on relality or find a different game. i play this game because its reasonable with the weapony. i have seen game where fighters could one shot dreadnoughts thats what you guys keep suggestion and its insane its not fun because people stop playing. so who are you going to use your riged ships on.

Your analogy is flawed because a naval destroyer might mount a 5 inch cannon or howitzer. At least it is STATED in the specifications. And a BB mounts the bigass 16 inchers.

In the game, there's a diff between CL and HCL. Little ships carry CLs. Big ships carry CLs and HCLs. That part is fine.

BUT..... Nowhere in the game did it state that there is a diff between a PC mounted on a Dess and PC mounted on a dread.
A dessie might mount 4 PCs, and a dread 12 PCs. But those PCs are essentially the same, because there is NOTHING in the game that defines them as different.

If this weapon levelling does exists, then it is a hidden modifier that is essentially not transparent to the player and should be made so.

So unless there is a stated difference in the weapon classes, all of what you stated is just conjecture and means squat to me.

Levelling should be removed. The alternative is to openly define the level of the weapons. Light, Medium, Heavy.






[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-05-31 11:35 ]

On 2010-05-31 15:41, Drafell wrote:
Weapons do have inate level modifiers, which are tied directly to the ships hull level.

Essentially the system works as follows:

As a weapons damage increases it's energy use also increases, but its rate of fire decreases. So instead of having many calibers of weapons (and the associated individual gadgets) on increasingly bigger hulls, we instead have one weapon that autoscales. Providing this is balanced correctly, it tends to work out quite nicely.

However, it is not quite so simple as you also have to take into account how this affects the 'accuracy' of each weapon. A faster projectile will also be more accurate which will not directly impact the DPS, but it has a passive effect in that if a given weapon hits more often, it's effective DPS will higher than that of a slower velocity projectile.

There is also the impact potential, or average damage per projectile/volley. Cannon for cannon, bigger ships actually have a slightly lower DPS than the guns on smaller ships. This is an intentional part of the design as it skews the system slightly in favour of players using the smaller ships. If anyone want's to try and argue about this, I can refer to various efficency issues with large power networks, loss of energy through resistance, etc, plus it does not really matter as the bigger ships have a lot more guns to begin with. What they lose per gun, they more than make up for with numbers.

Here is an example of a couple of the weapons, although the numbers below are a version or so out of date due to some range modifications to some weaponry.



P.S. I might give out some credits to the first people that can spot some glaring issues with the above data. I am well aware of a number of shortcomings. I am wondering if anyone else can pick up on them too (Development Team excluded).

[ This Message was edited by: Drafell on 2010-05-31 15:45 ]

On 2010-05-31 21:07, Starcommand of ICC *XO* wrote:
math issues

On 2010-05-31 23:01, jackbob wrote:


i am going to assume you never read the posts earlyer again.

one the higher the weapon lvl the more damage it does and the slower it charges up have you noticed that scouts seem to shoot faster at stock then stock stations or dreads. i am going to assume you didn't.

On 2010-05-31 23:16, Shigernafy wrote:

Values are base + (level + mod), and the smallest ships are level 1, so you never actually have gadgets with the base values. That might affect the range, but also keep in mind that weapons aren't at 0,0 of the ship; the mount points can be a few gus from the center, which may shift the numbers a bit. Or maybe there's a slight calculation bug on ranges; without actually testing, it's hard to say offhand.

Having a level system means that we don't have to have 3 times as many weapons on a ship to make it more powerful. Yes, looking at a dread layout that's 3x as full as a dessie layout gives you an immediate grasp of its relative power, but it also means a lot more gadgets and resulting projectiles to track. It's more efficient to have levels.

And heavy variants are the same principle -- for ships that would have 10 cannons, we just make a Heavy variant and then add 5 of those to the ship. They're made to be twice as powerful, that's all.