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Defence Mode |
Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
|  Posted: 2010-05-30 20:33
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On 2010-05-30 20:18, Lithium wrote:
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On 2010-05-30 15:36, Starcommand of ICC *XO* wrote:
You can't be invincible with it on, been testing that aspect of it. Shields still drop, ship can still be killed but it takes longer to do it. Nothing in the game costs that much energy to run, NOTHING!
To those who don't know, yes you do drain energy really fast when shields are gone and all of them are charging, with defense mode on. Its even worse in a station as they have 8 shields (or more) to charge.
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Use reactors.
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stations have 8 shields base, can be made into 4 normal shields instead of 4 shields/4 aux shield gens. Stations also have 4 aux fustion gens to start with (SS excluded with only 2).
So you want me to WEAKEN my defence in order to be able to support something thats a natural feature of the faction? Thats like asking Kluth to swap out some regular (organic) armor for more AHR.
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WH 40k armies, Grey Knights, Dark Angles, Imperial Guard (Vostroyan First Born) and Orks.
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2010-05-30 21:31
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On 2010-05-30 20:18, Lithium wrote:
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On 2010-05-30 15:36, Starcommand of ICC *XO* wrote:
You can't be invincible with it on, been testing that aspect of it. Shields still drop, ship can still be killed but it takes longer to do it. Nothing in the game costs that much energy to run, NOTHING!
To those who don't know, yes you do drain energy really fast when shields are gone and all of them are charging, with defense mode on. Its even worse in a station as they have 8 shields (or more) to charge.
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Use reactors.
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Screwing Dreads and below just because a Station can do something is not good balance.
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Lithium
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 29, 2003
Posts: 109
| Posted: 2010-05-31 00:38
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On 2010-05-30 20:33, Starcommand of ICC *XO* wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-05-30 20:18, Lithium wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-05-30 15:36, Starcommand of ICC *XO* wrote:
You can't be invincible with it on, been testing that aspect of it. Shields still drop, ship can still be killed but it takes longer to do it. Nothing in the game costs that much energy to run, NOTHING!
To those who don't know, yes you do drain energy really fast when shields are gone and all of them are charging, with defense mode on. Its even worse in a station as they have 8 shields (or more) to charge.
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Use reactors.
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stations have 8 shields base, can be made into 4 normal shields instead of 4 shields/4 aux shield gens. Stations also have 4 aux fustion gens to start with (SS excluded with only 2).
So you want me to WEAKEN my defence in order to be able to support something thats a natural feature of the faction? Thats like asking Kluth to swap out some regular (organic) armor for more AHR.
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You can get in-combat defense mode with reactors.
And if you don't wanna WEAKEN something, then don't use defense mode.
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2010-05-31 14:30
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On 2010-05-31 00:38, Lithium wrote:
You can get in-combat defense mode with reactors.
And if you don't wanna WEAKEN something, then don't use defense mode.
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Realize that Stations with 7+ reactors are an anamoly, and requires the tradeoff of a percentage of a station's total HP (from the Auxillary shields) in order to accomplish.
The problem is that tweaking the energy consumption of defense mode to take into account ICC stations with 7+ reactors is bad balance. The dreadnoughts and below whom only have 2, 1, or even 0 reactors would make using defense mode impossible, thus making defense mode a useless little gadget that cannot be used on most ships.
To say that would be useful would not understand how Defense mode works. Defense mode does not instantly recharge ICC shields, it increases the regeneration by 4 times, at a cost of an energy consumption of 8 times that of normal shields. If the energy consumption was increased, than an ordinary ICC's ships energy, even when fully stationary and everything else off, would drain far too fast to charge a significant amount of shielding.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-06-01 06:19
I love that people are trying to figure out a way tpo use this mode for actual combat.
It isnt meant for combat use.
Its for getting you back into combat after a battle a little faster.
We already have to peel through 3 freaking layers of protection as it is. That's not enough tho.
Maybe to get the point across that this is NOT for combat use, weapons should be interlocked to non-fire (safety mode) when a ship goes into the defensive mode.
You've been given a unique device to help with a particular issue with your faction. Almost every game tweak done in the last year has been in some way to stem the tears of the ICC. You should consider this when you begin flaming the hand that has been feeding you.
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Mithrandir
Chief Marshal
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 1276
| Posted: 2010-06-01 15:27
As Azreal says, the "mode" was created in order to allow ICC to rejoin the battle faster between rounds; even losing all your energy and then having to wait for it to regen is faster than waiting for your shields to regen without DM. It was never intended nor designed to be used for anything but an ability to rejoin the battle faster.
UGTO can use repair drones to stay healthy, but at the cost of firepower; Kluth can use cloak to do some regenerating, but they can't fire meanwhile. ICC now have a Defense Mode which allows them to repair more quickly, at the cost of energy (which limits their combat). It is balanced.
After more thorough testing, we may tweak the 8x. But it won't be much. Don't try to make this something that it's not.
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-06-02 19:13
Your ship loses ALL energy before shields are full up, this is on ALL ships not just stations. Its worse for the stations because of the 8 shields they have stock. As for peeling through the layers, thats the idea of ICC! Hard to kill with long range advantages. Did you also notice that I was saying for us to SIT STILL! Basically asking to get shot in the rear by a cloaked luth.
This mode doesn't make you invincible, it instead basically gives ICC's shields the same regen that Kluth have with AHR (as AHR works on armor as well but passively). This doesn't make us unkillable, but instead makes it harder which is the entire point of ICC shielding.
Just make it so you don't lose energy when sitting still, but you start to bleed when you move. Thats all I have been saying this entire time, I have been testing it in combat, and it gives ICC a little bit more survivability. The test was a BD, vs a CD, and the combat came out to a tie with both ships running deep into there hulls (had another fleet member run the CD, I was in the BD).
I am just trying to help out by suggesting a small tweak to it so it is useful instead of becoming something that is never used.
[ This Message was edited by: Starcommand of ICC *XO* on 2010-06-02 19:14 ]
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WH 40k armies, Grey Knights, Dark Angles, Imperial Guard (Vostroyan First Born) and Orks.
There is a thin line between knowing when to give up and when to try harder.
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-06-06 00:59
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On 2010-06-05 16:03, Spirit Of Pitch Black wrote:
wait wait wait. are icc complaining about a buff? hell lets just nerf them some more. there quieter!.
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This is a buff that won't be much of one if it gose in the way it is now. Its a buff and a nerf at the same time, as it will buff you regen but nerf your energy to nill. Energy regen on most ICC ships is poor at best, a few aux gens and PFE drives will help but it still takes a bit for some to recover all of there energy. So tell me, if this is a buff or a nerf or neither and it becomes another something ICC has that isn't usable.
They are trying to make it not usable in combat, fact is it will be used in combat no matter what you do. So mind as well make it semi usable even if you have to hold still to somewhat use it.
_________________
WH 40k armies, Grey Knights, Dark Angles, Imperial Guard (Vostroyan First Born) and Orks.
There is a thin line between knowing when to give up and when to try harder.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-06-06 12:15
Nobody said you have to sit in orbit in a combat zone to recharge your shields/armor. If you do that you deserve the death that you will get if you get one.
You are still trying to make this more than what it is for, Im afraid.
You should have to sit still. You shouldnt be able to fire. You shouldnt be able to do much of anything, because if you can, than there is a great chance that it is used for something its not intended.
As for supplying in combat, be real. You dont see any faction pulling it off, unless they simply have the numbers for it. Kluth send their supps away, because they get us busted. UGTO sups generally get popped on the first shot after I uncloak if they are in range. ICC same for you. We all have the same issues with supply during combat, and I believe it should be that way.
But when the battle is over, go park your butt at a safe planet cluster, or in space with some plats, and rep up before returning. You should be able to returnm to battle faster now than you could before, even after the energy recharges.
By the way, the only way you will get popped at one of your own planets is if you walk away afk, or are to dumb to ejump to another planet. The dictor traps the K'Luth, not you.
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apate
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 21, 2010
Posts: 205
| Posted: 2010-06-07 00:09
Why not just allow supply's/depots to recharge the shields, like they can armour? That would remove the need for Defence Mode, and make it so that we don't have to wait longer than say UGTO or Luth who can simply go to a depot planet, get repaired at the speed of light, and come back ready to fight in no time.
Leave shields as they are, just let us be able to charge them with SS's and Depos. (If you can have drones rebuild armour and hull, I think they can help jump-start your shields.)
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