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 Author open poll
Fleet Admiral Nithis [RO]
Fleet Admiral

Joined: December 13, 2009
Posts: 7
Posted: 2010-03-09 13:09   
As with most games the opinion of one player is never enough to effect a change in game. Because this is true, I've decided to post this in order to get more then just my opinion out there in a more effective way.

I spend at least 6 hours in this game a day most days. I've played as all factions at one point or another. I did this in the beging to get a feel for which faction that I like the best. Because of it though I've heard and experanced things in the game that concern me.
It has become more then apparent to myself that the UGTO is the only real head to head faction in the game. Having better armor and weps that do more damage. I've also been told by vets and mods in the game the the best range to be from your target as UGTO is around 1k gu. Putting them right in the face of their opponent.
K'luth are a close range hit and run style faction and ICC is more med to long range style faction. Now if the game was still the way it used to be that might be okay, but the fact of the matter is that the game isn't like it used to be. Head to Head fighting is what PVP is.

Mortal Combat, Soul Edge, Virtual Fighter and the FPS games on systems like Genisess and even before that lead the way in PVP even before online gaming was a reality, and before the internet was a pipe dream. In all of these games and now in MMO games like PWI the person starts at the same lvl and ablities as their opponents, useing upgrades and mods and other things that don't apply to this game the player builds himself to be better (in there opinion) to be better then their opponent.
For example; ICC is more of a long range based faction. Being "Jumped On" renders them mostly ineffective, but putting UGTO ships in their most effective range.
K'Luth are effective at close range but the thing that makes the the most dangerious, also make them vunerable. Aside from their Super Dreads they have to hit and run which leads to one of two out comes. Uncloaking and then cloaking can take to long and cause you to take alot of damage in some cases more then 50% hull damage. Which makes that mostly uneffective, where as the amount of damage you do isn't enough to make E jumping out and cloaking for another pass fast enough that the little damage you did hasn't regenerated most of itself back before you get there again.

Both of these things happen because each of these factions style isn't as effective as head to head fighting. Each faction should have just as good of a chance at a win all alone one on one in space. And not have to need a small fleet to be effective at all.
[ This Message was edited by: Doran on 2010-03-09 13:39 ]
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral

Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
Posted: 2010-03-09 13:15   
Poll Question:

DO YOU KNOW WHAT A NEWLINE CHARACTER IS?

[ ] No
[ ] No
_________________


Azreal
Chief Marshal

Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
Posted: 2010-03-09 13:40   
Quote:

On 2010-03-09 13:15, Fattierob wrote:
Poll Question:

DO YOU KNOW WHAT A NEWLINE CHARACTER IS?

[ ] No
[ ] No




Help a brother out, man!
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy


Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
Posted: 2010-03-09 14:41   
Every faction has head-to-head type ships, so quite frankly your entire reasoning is moot . For example, the ICC have the AC and AD, quite perfectly apt at attacking within close range.

K'luth hit and run is just how they're designed. We've increased their armour substantially since the last major revision, and they will most deffinately not be receiving another to allow them to go toe-to-toe.

Not to mention that if a faction like UGTO want to jump in and go toe-to-toe, there's nothing stopping you from doing a small 1k~ jump and fighting them.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash on 2010-03-09 14:43 ]
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
Posted: 2010-03-09 15:01   
Quote:

On 2010-03-09 14:41, BackSlash wrote:
Every faction has head-to-head type ships, so quite frankly your entire reasoning is moot . For example, the ICC have the AC and AD, quite perfectly apt at attacking within close range.

K'luth hit and run is just how they're designed. We've increased their armour substantially since the last major revision, and they will most deffinately not be receiving another to allow them to go toe-to-toe.

Not to mention that if a faction like UGTO want to jump in and go toe-to-toe, there's nothing stopping you from doing a small 1k~ jump and fighting them.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash on 2010-03-09 14:43 ]




+1
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[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."

Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy


Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
Posted: 2010-03-09 15:21   
Quote:

On 2010-03-09 13:09, Nithis wrote:
For example; ICC is more of a long range based faction. Being "Jumped On" renders them mostly ineffective


lern2interdictor
_________________


xTx
Chief Marshal

Joined: September 10, 2005
Posts: 101
From: Canada
Posted: 2010-03-09 17:47   
I applaud you Nithis for the time and thought you put into this post but after you have been here awhile you will realize that the only opinions that matter are those of the devs and their friends. The sad reality is anyone who offers an alternate opinion is put up for ridicule, an example is Azreal's and fattierob's attack on the poster and not the content of post.
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Shigernafy
Admiral

Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
Posted: 2010-03-09 18:06   
No, the only opinion that matters is mine, just nobody else seems to have realized that yet.

He's kind of right in a way - most of the real fighting takes place head to head, up close, mashing space bars. The dev team has long tried to tweak the game in ways that would theoretically push it toward an ideal, rather than adapting it to fit the play style of some/most/whatever players. (Of course, the ideal is the play style of some players, but my point is that just because everyone seems to default to head-to-head doesn't mean that's how things "should" be. (of course, relatively says there's no "should" and devs are just as guilty, but now I'm just being overly philosophical and undermining my own argument))

Anyway, my point is that ICC need a longer range dictor and kluth need a key lime pie gun. And I need a nap.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2010-03-09 21:23   
Quote:

On 2010-03-09 15:21, Doran wrote:
Quote:

On 2010-03-09 13:09, Nithis wrote:
For example; ICC is more of a long range based faction. Being "Jumped On" renders them mostly ineffective


lern2interdictor





Unfortunately, having a dictor cruiser in the area can cause some ppl to simply log off and avoid fights.

Something about "killing the fun"... just cos they can't jump out to avoid dying.

So some players will unofficially agree to not deploy dictors and then start "urging" their teammates to get rid of their dictors.




[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-03-09 21:25 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2010-03-09 21:31   
Quote:

On 2010-03-09 13:09, Nithis wrote:
As with most games the opinion of one player is never enough to effect a change in game. Because this is true, I've decided to post this in order to get more then just my opinion out there in a more effective way.

I spend at least 6 hours in this game a day most days. I've played as all factions at one point or another. I did this in the beging to get a feel for which faction that I like the best. Because of it though I've heard and experanced things in the game that concern me.
It has become more then apparent to myself that the UGTO is the only real head to head faction in the game. Having better armor and weps that do more damage. I've also been told by vets and mods in the game the the best range to be from your target as UGTO is around 1k gu. Putting them right in the face of their opponent.
K'luth are a close range hit and run style faction and ICC is more med to long range style faction. Now if the game was still the way it used to be that might be okay, but the fact of the matter is that the game isn't like it used to be. Head to Head fighting is what PVP is.

Mortal Combat, Soul Edge, Virtual Fighter and the FPS games on systems like Genisess and even before that lead the way in PVP even before online gaming was a reality, and before the internet was a pipe dream. In all of these games and now in MMO games like PWI the person starts at the same lvl and ablities as their opponents, useing upgrades and mods and other things that don't apply to this game the player builds himself to be better (in there opinion) to be better then their opponent.
For example; ICC is more of a long range based faction. Being "Jumped On" renders them mostly ineffective, but putting UGTO ships in their most effective range.
K'Luth are effective at close range but the thing that makes the the most dangerious, also make them vunerable. Aside from their Super Dreads they have to hit and run which leads to one of two out comes. Uncloaking and then cloaking can take to long and cause you to take alot of damage in some cases more then 50% hull damage. Which makes that mostly uneffective, where as the amount of damage you do isn't enough to make E jumping out and cloaking for another pass fast enough that the little damage you did hasn't regenerated most of itself back before you get there again.

Both of these things happen because each of these factions style isn't as effective as head to head fighting. Each faction should have just as good of a chance at a win all alone one on one in space. And not have to need a small fleet to be effective at all.





Nith.

The only thing I see wrong in each MV server is the lack of a team balance mechanism. So one faction tends to outnumber the others massively. I guess we all know which faction that is.


Other than that, I would say, leave the faction ships alone. They are designed with variety in mind. If all factions were clones of each other but with different textures/shapes/skins, then I would quit the game immediately.

What's the fun of having equivalent ship classes for every faction? I hit you with a stone, you hit me with a stone. It just becomes a turn and burn spacebar mesh-fest.

BORING!

Perhaps missile equipped ICC ships should jump in about 2000gus from the FEBA and start to recharge their jump engines before they reach max missile range (I guess average of 1500?), then proceed to launch.
If any enemy ship jumps in close, they can jump out again to start their run.

The thing is to use the right ship for the right job.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal

Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
Posted: 2010-03-09 22:11   
I will. I dont care if they log. I have a whole system of dictor diployment refined over several years against players better than any here now.

And yeah, I will beacon. I will tranny rush. I will dictor. I will drop troops on ships. I know tactics that nobody starting in the last three years has seen, and I have no problem using them. I will throw frozen monkey crap at you if that's what it takes to kill you.

When I log in, my goal is to kill red things and break their stuff. If I wanted to hold hands I'd play Wow or Eve ffs.


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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2010-03-09 22:13   
Quote:

On 2010-03-09 22:11, Azreal wrote:
I will. I dont care if they log. I have a whole system of dictor diployment refined over several years against players better than any here now.

And yeah, I will beacon. I will tranny rush. I will dictor. I will drop troops on ships. I know tactics that nobody starting in the last three years has seen, and I have no problem using them. I will throw frozen monkey crap at you if that's what it takes to kill you.

When I log in, my goal is to kill red things and break their stuff. If I wanted to hold hands I'd play Wow or Eve ffs.







You and I are in complete agreement.
I'm sick to death of hearing ppl whine when you deploy a dictor.

It's all tactics.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2010-03-09 22:28   
Quote:

On 2010-03-09 18:06, Shigernafy wrote:
No, the only opinion that matters is mine, just nobody else seems to have realized that yet.

He's kind of right in a way - most of the real fighting takes place head to head, up close, mashing space bars. The dev team has long tried to tweak the game in ways that would theoretically push it toward an ideal, rather than adapting it to fit the play style of some/most/whatever players. (Of course, the ideal is the play style of some players, but my point is that just because everyone seems to default to head-to-head doesn't mean that's how things "should" be. (of course, relatively says there's no "should" and devs are just as guilty, but now I'm just being overly philosophical and undermining my own argument))

Anyway, my point is that ICC need a longer range dictor and kluth need a key lime pie gun. And I need a nap.




I think head to head, up close, spacebar meshing is overdone. This is a 2D game. So all you end up with are a bunch of guys turning around and meshing their 1, 2, 3, 4 or alpha keys. Targetting is already automatic, so what fun is there if this is all there is to DS?

If the game had true 3D manuevering, then head to head dogfights would be exciting, for sure.

We need more variety.

Launching missiles from afar into a furball has its fun too. Don't you just love it when your enemy suddenly loses 25% of his armor from a salvo out of nowhere while he's chasing an allied destroyer?

Or while trying to chase down a supp ship, a massive alien dread suddenly decloaks off his aft quarter and lays the smackdown on his already battered rear armor?




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Lacrosseian
Fleet Admiral
Raven Warriors

Joined: October 01, 2004
Posts: 1254
Posted: 2010-03-10 00:47   
Quote:

On 2010-03-09 18:06, Shigernafy wrote:

kluth need a key lime pie gun



I approve.
_________________


Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
Posted: 2010-03-10 04:46   
Finally , after many years of hard work* we have a decent ship balance in this game. But ship balance is not all for the general balance. The biggest development error of this game , balance is based on ships and not on player numbers. Since it is almost imposible to balance player base and change ship balance according to player base we will never have the perfect balance. This game developed around the idea of MMO , we suppose to have 50icc ,50 ugto 50kluth to try real balance issue. Otherwise it is fine as it is.



_________________
* Josef hands [PB]Quantium the Golden GothThug award for best melodrama in a miniseries...
[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."

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