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Battle Ship Classes |
jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
|  Posted: 2010-02-25 17:23
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On 2010-02-24 23:07, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
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On 2010-02-24 22:02, tackfurlo wrote:
I think what we really need is a carrier.
And by carrier I don't mean a troop transport or a bomber. I mean a ship designed for the primary purpose of transporting other ships. Essentially, it would have very light armament but very, VERY heavy armor and shields, and it would serve as a mobile (somewhat slow, but still...) spawn point for any ship class...hmm...destroyer or lower. More or less like a jump gate with destroyer-class weapons and station-class armor you can park directly adjacent to an enemy planet.
Of course, while not able to spawn a dread, it would be able to repair and rearm ANY class of ship, and possibly both itself and orbital platforms. In this way, a team with 3-4 dreads and one of these carriers would be able to continue an assault indefinitely.
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Transporting other ships?
But the other ships in the game are players too.... barring the few AI transports/supply ships that run around. If I were a player, why would I want to be transported by a large, vulnerable, and potentially slow carrier ship?
My guess is that you could be proposing some super large factory ship.... aka, the Mothership in the Homeworld series of games. But then the topic is about Battleships. And the addition of another large class of ship is what most ppl here are not in favor of right now.
BUT..... just to show that perhaps your idea may have some merit.... instead of creating yet another class of vessel, the Devs can simply make one more class of Station and call it... eg. Factory Station or Starbase, and have it be some kind of spawn point for new/garaged ships, etc etc. bla bla. And yet, it would only be available to those higher ranked players. (Hopefully Marshals and above only)
Sidetrack: Modern naval combat took a diff turn in WW2 with the addition of airpower... aka carrier-borne fighter/bomber aircraft. This is also reflected in space games like FreeSpace, Wing Commander, X-Wing, etc etc. I find that in DS, fighters do not really have any impact in the game as opposed to what it could be in reality. Right now, carrier dreads or cruisers seem to be second rate.
Perhaps, a new class of dreads, or an entirely new class/design of ship could be added to the game with the sole purpose of carrying large number of fighters (user customizable configuration, in the order of 10 to 15 fighter groups), be light on offensive weaps, and high on PD defenses and armor/shields. Call it a "Hyper-carrier" or something. This could be useful if the devs ever implement torpedo carrying anti-capship bombers or planetary assault bombers, into the game.
I dunno. Just making some guesses.
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while yes that would be great i hate to say it but mass fighters would only cause more problems if they don't fix the fighter lag problem (which mind you still haven't been fixed not pointing fingers i just miss fighter bases) but a way around that is making a fighter able to take more hits (aka a shield or armor) at the very least will get people to get a carrier
how ever if that still causes problems you could limit the amount of carriers on at anyone time.
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2010-02-26 00:47
You use to be able to Dock with and "Carry" another ship in Jump.
But that was abused by people in scouts letting stations dock with them and then jumping them all over the map every 30 seconds.
We discussed making it only allow the larger ship jump holding the smaller ship but decided for ease of coding to just toss it out completely.
Personally I miss the docking command since it made SD'ing and Kamakazi points easier to get...
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Sauur
Chief Marshal
Praetorian Wolves
Joined: November 30, 2004
Posts: 475
| Posted: 2010-02-26 00:58
Have often thought it would be interesting to have a station available on each faction which could act as a mobile SY for the faction.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-02-26 05:05
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On 2010-02-25 04:46, Tael wrote:
We already have Dreads and Super Dreads...
So you have your battleships and Dreadnoughts
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Yeah, probably. But I think they were looking along the lines of something in new. Hell, just give them a new model at least.....? 
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-02-26 05:06 ]
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James 296
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 19, 2009
Posts: 141
| Posted: 2010-04-10 13:21
just to add my ten cents worth and to rant some ppl (not pointing fingers)
layout or order of classes from weakest to strongest (most naval games)
Transports/engineering ships/etc.
scout/covette
Frigate
destroyer
cruiser
Battlecruiser
Dreadnoughts
Battleships
Carriers
and for the hell of it for ds
Stations
and don't flame me but I'm just stating facts and I've played tons(countless) naval games, plus I've kind of Researched this alot (for school projects)
okay ranting done and now on the the topic at hand
it may not sound right that battleships are above (or this case below) Dreads but it is a fact. Right now Dreads are fine and we don't need to but if we want to in the future replace dreads (someday), do it with batteships as they are a more refined dread aka a Dread MK II. But i do agree that a class of ship needs to be added between Dreads and cruiser to balance out the game, thus battlecruisers would better fit that role. In reality, Battlecruisers were designed to be cheaper then a dread/battleship yet be able to go toe to toe with a dread/battleship and Survive, thus the reason why they are called pocket battleships (if you want pocket dreads)
translation For Devs (lol): Battlecruiser = Elite cruiser, Battleship = Dreads MK 2 designs (Battleships not needed (right now) unless your planing on replacing dreads.
P.S. untill the servers are fixed (as i understand) we can not have the required amount of fighters need to make Carriers what they need to be. As a normal Carrier can have 80+/- Fighters and 80 +/- Bomber meaning about 160 as average (guaranteed to over run a fleets defenses)(note: this is based WWII carrier size bays, on Ds I suggest more of 200+ size bay).
[ This Message was edited by: James296 on 2010-04-10 13:37 ]
[ This Message was edited by: James296 on 2010-04-10 19:24 ]
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2010-04-10 13:32
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On 2010-04-10 13:21, James296 wrote:
just to ad my ten cents worth and to rant some ppl (not pointing fingers)
layout or order of classes from weakest to strongest
scout/covette
Frigate
destroyer
cruiser
Battlecruiser aka Pocket battleships/dreads (depending on timeline)
Dreadnoughts
Battleships (aka a Dread mk 2)
Carriers
and for the hell of it for ds
Stations
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/me scratches his head.
We already have
Scout/Corvettes
Transports/Extractors
Frigates
Destroyers/Engineers
Supplys
Cruiser
Carrier Cruisers (think WW@ Jeep Carriers)
Dreads
Carrier Dreads (think modern carriers)
Super Dreads
Stations - support
Stations - combat
Stations - Command
Between WWI and WW2 instead of building costly full blown Carriers the US built mostly Jeep Carriers, for the cost of a full carrier they could field three to four smaller carriers and spread the assets out. This way if one carrier was sunk, they only lost at most 1/3rd of their air power.
In modern times many nations still use smaller carriers, only a handful make giant super carriers.
In game terms the ICC went with Jeep carrier concept.
UGTO went with the more costly mega carrier concepts.
As you see above there are already13 Distinct classes of ships. There are several levels of ships in each level except for the station classes.
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James 296
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 19, 2009
Posts: 141
| Posted: 2010-04-10 13:55
actual there called Escort Carriers (Great grandfather servied on one plus I'm a WW2 history nut so I get a little nutty about the terms but they were called jeep carriers by their crews so I'll give you that one)
But the Battlecruiser doesnt need to be in a class of there own (tecnically they were in the cruiser class) just put it in as a elite cruiser
personally requirements to this elite cruiser rank: VA (or adm) Gold Combat badge and Bronze support (were also design to support battleships/dreads in battle)
Armment, armor, speed, and turning rate Between Cruiser and dreads (this it the possible to destroy cruisers but still be one uped by dreads but if the player is smart he can win against a dread (and i'm talking about close combat) thus filling that niche
Plus the Battlecruiser would fit in with the icc (jeep carrier concept), but also give something close to a battleship for ugto (maga carrier concept)
thus filling another niche/s
Note: battlecruiser were made between the age of Dreads(this ended with the treaty of Versailles because of tonnage limits) and the age of the Battleship (obvious reasons why)
[ This Message was edited by: James296 on 2010-04-10 14:16 ]
[ This Message was edited by: James296 on 2010-04-10 19:25 ]
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2010-04-10 14:56
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On 2010-02-23 21:53, Fallen Wing wrote:
Its about time that there should be a new class in DS, and the timing is oh so right with the new ranks or Marshall and Chief Marshall. So to give power to these figureheaded ranks, the Batte Ship class is reversed for them, Kudos 
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but isnt battleships less powerful then dreadnoughts?
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Antra
Admiral
Agents
Joined: February 16, 2002
Posts: 657
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
| Posted: 2010-04-10 17:26
BackSlash, to answer your question: Yes. Yes, I would like that very much.
Dreads and stations generally take skill to get the pres to fly the thing, and once you have it you'd better have some skill to keep the thing alive lest your purpose in DS devolve to that of a pretty pyrotechnics show.
But let's be honest here people. Isn't it more difficult to fly a more mobile vessel? As a dread or station you have to be cautious about what you get yourself into, and that does require forethought and strategy. Yet in the heat of combat, it's about picking targets and considering how best to use your special abilities. That's true of any ship class but dreads+ have more specials to work with. Or just...more, period.
A battlecruiser would be perfect, because you retain more maneuverability than a dreadnought. Yet if you get within melee range of a dread you're still likely to end up sliced and diced.
This will add more variety, and IMO that is a great thing. Not the who-would-ever-use-that kind of variety, like the Guppy *sniff* or the Jump Cruiser (gimme back my WH-1!).
On the topic of elite variants...HECK YEAH! I'm only an Admiral but I will gladly cheer for elite varieties of every ship class. That includes ships smaller than dreadnoughts, too.
Elite destroyers and frigates? Count me in! Now I have a reason to race for more pres.
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James 296
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 19, 2009
Posts: 141
| Posted: 2010-04-10 19:28
icc already has a scout that can be considered a elite.....damn thing can take on a dessie and kill it (if you don't run out of ammo or get destroyed)
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2010-04-10 19:47
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On 2010-02-24 06:01, BackSlash wrote:
How would people feel about Battleships in between Dreads and Cruisers at ranks between Vice Admiral to Marshal?
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i would feel frigging fantastic about it.
oh, and call them battle cruisers, not battleships. we have battleships already, cause dreadnaught = battleship.
eve failed on the class naming, lets not do the same
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2010-04-10 19:58
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On 2010-02-25 04:46, Tael wrote:
We already have Dreads and Super Dreads...
So you have your battleships and Dreadnoughts
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theres only 1 super dread in existance tho.. how about adding 1 for ICC and UGTO aswell?
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2010-04-10 20:01
i see a Battle shipw ould be a same Same size as a Dread, but act differently from it.
as if all our Dreanoughts are mostly specialized in something, Forward facing EAD, Command dread, Carrier dread, and the BD is mostly the main combat one
a Battleship for what i would see it in DS is a ship that move maybe slower, and less manouvrable, but his weapons would be mostly heavy classes and most of them would 360 degrees roatation, and little to none PD.
That way the ships is Combat specialized in massive firepower, but anything Smaller than dread would be able to kill it, Maybe like a seige kind of ship
Of course, without PD the ships is totally useless and Weak againts Missiles and Small ships
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ssj4megaman
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2003
Posts: 54
From: San Diego
| Posted: 2010-04-11 00:04
I didn't read through the entire thread but a dreadnaught is an advanced or more heavily armed/armored version of a battleship.... so a battleship should be between cruiser and dread. which i think is the biggest jump... a dread is already a station level ship (in terms of dmg not qute, but practically is)...
So 2 things i think we need.. Fortresses for Marshall and GA ranks... really really powerful stations... since there are not many marhall+ people it would be rare in battle... prestige loss on loosing one about 700-1000.. but can easily easily tank any current station/dread...
Alot of people say no more powerful ships, but i think the marshall+ people needs some new toys to play with.
Also maybe instead of more powerful ships/stations.. maybe being able to mod or access to uber mods at those ranks... like they can mod out existing psi cannons for the heavy variant. Get access to advance versions of jump drives or energy generators.. Since they are the cream of the crop on the race (i mean they are Marshalls or Grand Marshalls) they get access to experimental tech..... something like that... (and i am not those ranks so no favoritism there)
Add battleships as more specilized function ships between cruiser and dread... missile platform battleship, torp battle ship, etc etc..
Also can we add another rank? lol SKY Marshall or Star Marshall.. or maybe rename chief marshall to that =P im serious.
[ This Message was edited by: ssj4megaman on 2010-04-11 00:09 ]
[ This Message was edited by: ssj4megaman on 2010-04-11 00:11 ]
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James 296
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 19, 2009
Posts: 141
| Posted: 2010-04-11 00:24
[quote]
On 2010-04-11 00:04, ssj4megaman wrote:
I didn't read through the entire thread but a dreadnaught is an advanced or more heavily armed/armored version of a battleship.... so a battleship should be between cruiser and dread. which i think is the biggest jump... a dread is already a station level ship (in terms of dmg not qute, but practically is)...
[quote]
again A battleship is a upgraded Dread. Battleships have better armor, arment, & speed aka a Dread MK 2. and please if you want to stick something between dreads and cruiser, please call it a battecruiser
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