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Ship Capture |
-=LoKi=-
Marshal
Imperium
Joined: November 10, 2007
Posts: 83
From: Valhala
|  Posted: 2009-12-07 08:51
Can some one explain to me how 10 iic stupi heavy killed 10 zerks on my station and still were enough to cap my ship ? HIVE!..
Tell me, becouse is begining to f sukl. lost allot of ships to the ICC race becouse of 1 more inf and now I lose even wit equal ammount?
Srsly is there any combat left here? .. or we play who is the luckyest?
[ This Message was edited by: Klorel(Ouji D`Artai) on 2009-12-07 08:53 ]
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0stego
Fleet Admiral
United Armed Corps
Joined: October 04, 2008
Posts: 153
From: Sol System, Earth, Canada, AB.
| Posted: 2009-12-07 10:34
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On 2009-12-07 08:51, Klorel(Ouji D`Artai) wrote:
Can some one explain to me how 10 iic stupi heavy killed 10 zerks on my station and still were enough to cap my ship ? HIVE!..
Tell me, becouse is begining to f sukl. lost allot of ships to the ICC race becouse of 1 more inf and now I lose even wit equal ammount?
Srsly is there any combat left here? .. or we play who is the luckyest?
[ This Message was edited by: Klorel(Ouji D`Artai) on 2009-12-07 08:53 ]
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OUCH! that was painful to read, mind if I fix it for you buddy?
"Can someone explain to me how ten ICC stupid heavy infantry killed ten zerks on my station and were still enough to capture my ship? a hive!..
Tell me, because its beginning to f*@&in suck. Lost a lot of ships to the ICC faction because of one more infantry and now I lose even with equal amount of troops? Seriously is there any combat left here?...or are we playing by luck?"
That aside...I agree that is dumb. I've had 4+ heavy troops board my ship and my 1 heavy infantry and internal security wiped them out with MINIMAL damage to my ship...maybe this is a bug? or Hives have 0 internal security...I have no idea.
[ This Message was edited by: 0stego on 2009-12-07 10:35 ]
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2009-12-07 10:39
ship captures needs to be worked on thats for sure.
i wouldn't mind having boarding be impossible unless a ship has no armor/shield left on one or more arcs.
i mean, armor/shield is good enough to protect from all kinds of nasty damage but they cant keep some lousy infantery out? 
i mean, why do i bother to shoot ppl when i can do it alot faster with some inf?
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Hell Bender
Grand Admiral
K'Luth Revolution
Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 117
From: Knoxville, Maryland USA
| Posted: 2009-12-07 11:07
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On 2009-12-07 10:39, Jar Jar Binks wrote:
ship captures needs to be worked on thats for sure.
i wouldn't mind having boarding be impossible unless a ship has no armor/shield left on one or more arcs.
i mean, armor/shield is good enough to protect from all kinds of nasty damage but they cant keep some lousy infantery out?
i mean, why do i bother to shoot ppl when i can do it alot faster with some inf?
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It does seem to work better (capping an enemy ship) the more damage it has, but maybe that was just my experience. Anyway we could get a formula for how the capping system works?
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If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-12-07 11:31
I'd guess maybe they were hardened or elite. If not, then that's some really bad luck.
I do tons of ship capping, and ship damage doesn't seem to make a difference, but hardened/elite status does, if only to defeat defenders.
I would suggest putting your infantry on DEFEND. I can't say for sure that DEFEND does anything. I've used DEFEND plenty of times on planets, trying to see if it makes a difference vs ATTACK, and I can't really see any. I do know though when my stations are boarded, I lose slightly less infantry when they're on DEFEND. I still lose more than I expect though, 6 human heavys vs my 10 kluth zerkers and I wind up with 2-3 left.
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-=LoKi=-
Marshal
Imperium
Joined: November 10, 2007
Posts: 83
From: Valhala
| Posted: 2009-12-07 12:17
Really 10 vs 10 on your ship and u lose? Its your ship even the pilot can take a hammer and smah a guy`s head.
And thank u for the text correction, I whas pissed at that time becouse it was not my first ship that I lost to ICC troops.
(Do they have BUG SPRAY)?
[ This Message was edited by: Klorel(Ouji D`Artai) on 2009-12-07 12:23 ]
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Light404
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 10, 2002
Posts: 54
| Posted: 2009-12-07 12:55
Thats exactly why I carry elites aboard my dreads and stations, there doesn't seem to be an advantage being on home turf. (personally I'd but laser firing machine guns every 20 feet in every hall way and give my crew a beacon so they don't get shot, that's solve the problem fo sho.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-12-07 13:40
A few things on ship caps.
This is from mainly the older system, but I havent seen anything to change that specific part of the code. I wont say I am expert, but I am #3, and I have been since WELL before the AI additions and cargo exploits that are presently being used. So yeah, I guess I am saying I am an expert - at the older system at least.
Putting infantry on defend will help your troops last longer both on your ship AND on theirs. I used to watch them when you could target the enemy ships' components. I'd drop, cloak, and just watch them outlast the enemy infantry.
Of course, use Elites, but that goes without saying I hope. If you use anything else, disregard what I say overall. I have no insight into watered down tactics for you.
If you put your infantry on raze, you should be able to do system damages. I havent been able to see this to verify that it still works, but it used to. Putting 4 elites on raze and dropping on an EAD while targeting the JD, for example, used to blow the jd in about 15 secs. Then they start systematically working on other components untill they die or ship dies.
I HAVE killed ships before using elites on raze, dropping on injured ships as I retreated to heal.
Putting infantry on attack is useful for ship defense. I guess. It just doesnt seem to work as well as defend. But I think it was because most people would use attack when they dropped, thereby making my defend orders more effective.
If the enemy uses defend, and YOU are using defend, you have to swap to attack or you increase your chances of getting capped.
It seems it isn't the number, at least not now. It USED to be, but now it seems like its the length of time of survival. If they survive for XX amount of time, you get capped. If you kill them first, you live.
If you see somebody coming in a tranny and u have a station, my word of advice is jump. fast.
And for the record, imho, station capping vs players is cheap when u use a tranny. Have more respect for your enemy, noobs.
Please take a look at trying to limit the use of that exploit, Maybe allow an enemy to only drop a certain number period on a ship.
Anyways, I hope this helps. I dunno what is still accurate, but I will say I still use everything the same way I used to and have good success.
Az
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2009-12-07 13:58
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On 2009-12-07 13:40, Azreal wrote:
And for the record, imho, station capping vs players is cheap when u use a tranny. Have more respect for your enemy, noobs.
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Yeah, damn all those people who choose to capture a station than try to kill it. Its not like its easier or tactically sound or anything. Should probably patch it so stations can't be captured anymore.
That'll show them.
-Ent
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-12-07 14:12
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On 2009-12-07 13:58, Enterprise wrote:
Yeah, damn all those people who choose to capture a station than try to kill it. Its not like its easier or tactically sound or anything. Should probably patch it so stations can't be captured anymore.
That'll show them.
-Ent
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Off the mark as usual.
What they do is cram 30+ infantry on a station that the pilot himself can only drop 12 into. He can never even try to replace his infantry as they die off.
If it was your tranny of ten, and then another two infantry, vs his maximum of 12, then it's fair.
Right now, if 5 people wanted to they could drop 10 each at once on a station. Instant 50 vs 12!
Is THAT what you are sarcastically saying is NOT an exploit Ent? Because THAT is what I mean.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-12-07 16:34
It's not an exploit.
Quote:
| - You can now unload unlimited numbers of infantry onto an enemy ship for capture. |
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I like it this way. Before it was pretty much impossible to cap stations, unless they forgot to load infantry. You could go around capping AI or platforms with the old system, but it was really hard to cap a player if he brought along defenders. 1 at a time does not do anything.
Now transports have a use other than occasionally capturing a planet or helping defend one by shuttling inf. Transports are a threat. They are legitimately useful now. People actually use them.
That change in 1.518 is one I really liked, one of my favorite. I like seeing ships captured in battle. I like having to be careful of being captured, because it never used to be a danger before.
The only thing I'd like to see changed about the whole system is the infantry themselves. I'd like to have a 3rd type of infantry that specializes in combat aboard ships, which would be better at attacking and defending on ships but worse at attacking and defending on planet surfaces. It would fit my philosophy of "more choices, but consequences to each choice" when it comes to choosing what type of infantry a barracks would produce (since if it's producing "commandos", my name for that 3rd infantry, the planet will be more susceptible to invasion).
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Light404
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 10, 2002
Posts: 54
| Posted: 2009-12-07 17:16
^^ That's a terrible idea. Using trannies to cap stations cause you don't want to fight them is absolute crap, and shows no respect for the player or the game. However, you're one of those same kluth players that instead of bombing a planet, will tranny rush it, so I guess that crap spewing from your mouth is to be expected.
All those sort of tactics accomplish is to force Darkspace's already slim player base away. Fighting kluth period is frustrating enough without having to worry if a transport is going to decloak beneath you, or a ugto transport will point jump you and unload. Now, your suggesting the game get degraded even further by saying tranny rushing is legit (especially against player's ships) and not an exploit?
I'll say tranny rushing is an acceptable practice when a minimum drop distance is enacted. "player must be 50gu/more to allow unload of cargo type "infantry""
[ This Message was edited by: Light404 on 2009-12-07 17:19 ]
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2009-12-07 17:28
Light i understand your frustration but even cloaked kluth can go near planet.Somehow planet sees kluth and fire which gives cloaked ships position away.
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Sens [R33]
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2009-12-07 17:43
In a nutshell, ship capturing is determined by the following psuedocode:
1. Are there more enemy troops than friendly?
yes -> goto 2.
no -> goto 1.
2. Does the random number meet set conditions?
yes -> goto 3.
no -> goto 1.
3. Ship is captured, change ship faction.
this takes place over set inteverals(20 odd seconds)
additionally, infantry fight as they would on a planet during this.
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Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
| Posted: 2009-12-07 19:12
yeah... I got a problem with how the cheap the cap system works too.
BUT, Kluth have it the best in this arena. ICC will still have to with in view, and u can still shot him down before he gets to u.
Having a Kluth heavy tranny uncloak under ur AD and unload 10 inf....
u get me?
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