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Defense Base Feedback |
Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
|  Posted: 2009-10-21 21:26
I also am interested in defense bases, since I redid them and just posted them into release without any particularly thorough testing.
I think I need to lower the reqs for Level 2 bases, but I haven't looked at it in depth yet.
I also need to up the strength of the higher level ones to add a bit more deterrence.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2009-10-22 09:07
Quote:
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On 2009-10-21 21:26, Shigernafy wrote:
I also am interested in defense bases, since I redid them and just posted them into release without any particularly thorough testing.
I think I need to lower the reqs for Level 2 bases, but I haven't looked at it in depth yet.
I also need to up the strength of the higher level ones to add a bit more deterrence.
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Agreed.
-Ent
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2009-10-22 18:21
Feel free to, you know, provide details or specific suggestions.
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* [S.W]AdmBito @55321 Sent \"I dunno; the French had a few missteps. But they're on the right track, one headbutt at a time.\"
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Mr Black
Grand Admiral
Palestar
Joined: September 20, 2003
Posts: 486
From: Gaifenland
| Posted: 2009-10-23 10:54
Can you provide a list with the current layouts for the community to review? I don't have SVN access right now.
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Julian Delphiki
Admiral
Joined: June 19, 2002
Posts: 170
| Posted: 2009-10-23 23:15
So far, I must say I love the PD bases. Now even UGTO def can actually prevent most bombs.. I havent done much testing with the others, but so far k'luth anti-ship seems to be doing its job for most lone-bombers, but doesnt do much damage when there is even one sup available.
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2009-10-24 01:46
Kluth
PD1 - Power, Psi Missile, Ruptor x3
PD2 - Power x2, Psi Missile Mk2, Ruptor x5
Mix1 - Power, Psi Missile Mk2, Ruptor x2
Mix2 - Power x2, Shredder Mk2, Psi Missile Mk2, Ruport x2
Off1 - Power x2, ARuptor, Psi Missile Mk2, AM torp
Off2 - Power x3, ARuptor x2, Heavy Psi Cannon x2, AM torp x2
ICC
PD1 - Power, ODL, Pulse x2, IT Missile
PD2 - Power, ODL, Pulse x4, AR Missile
Mix1 - Power, ODL, Pulse, AR Missile x2
Mix2 - Power, ODL x2, Pulse, AR Missile Mk2 x2, Heavy Railgun
Off1 - Power, ODL, Heavy Railgun, IT Missile
Off2 - Power, ODL, Heavy Railgun x2, IT Missile Mk2, F torp
UGTO
PD1 - Power, ODL x3, AR Missile
PD2 - Power x2, ODL x4, AR Missile Mk2
Mix1 - Power, ODL x2, IT Missile Mk2
Mix2 - Power, ODL x2, AR Missile Mk2, Heavy P Cannon
Off1 - Power, ODL, IT Missile, P Cannon, P torp
Off2 - Power, ODL, IT Missile Mk2, Heavy P Cannon x2, P torp
Requirements: (irrespective of faction)
PD1 - 20/20 tech, 800 res, 1 worker, 10 power
PD2 - 70/60 tech, 2500 res, 5 workers, 20 power
Mix1 - 25/25 tech, 1000 res, 2 workers, 10 power
Mix2 - 80/70 tech, 2500 res, 4 workers, 15 power
Off1 - 35/35 tech, 2000 res, 3 workers, 20 power
Off2 - 90/80 tech, 8000 res, 6 workers, 25 power
Technology: X/Y refers to X tech necessary to begin building the structure, Y to maintain it operating.
[ This Message was edited by: Shigernafy on 2009-10-24 01:47 ]
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* [S.W]AdmBito @55321 Sent \"I dunno; the French had a few missteps. But they're on the right track, one headbutt at a time.\"
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Sixkiller
Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 1786
From: Netherlands
| Posted: 2009-10-25 16:52
Personal opinion based on this:
Kluth seem to have no psi cannons, while UGTO/ICC do. Also, the offensive bases of Kluth use beams, while UGTO/ICC have no beams there. (So cant even do basic pd)
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Krim {C?}
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: June 24, 2002
Posts: 362
From: Boston MA
| Posted: 2009-10-26 03:02
I assigned each gadget a number based on it's effectivness (I would use actual damage amounts, types etc.. but dont have access to this information, so I'm guessing based on game experience, for example, Im pretty sure an IT missile is relativly the same amount of damage as a Ptorp. And that the torps are pretty standardized across the factions. I know there are differences but for the sake of my analysis of the def bases i'm making them pretty standard. You could tweak my data by adding say .25 to the AM torp, and -.25 to the Ptorp or Ftorp, you get the idea.
Anyway. I'm also assuming that a disruptor is being used as a defensive anti-bombing weapon, however i could also do a different calculation regarding Standoff (LR Offense) and Close Combat (SR Offense) using the beams... that might change things a bit..
Anyway. That's my analysis.
https://sites.google.com/site/galacticnavy/ugto-vessels-and-tactics/defbase-testing
I mean, hell, I could be way off, but if I had actual values, the logic is sound.
I used to do this kind of stuff all the time when I coded Aspace ships (Pennmush based Hardcode and Softcode for Startrek ships)
EDIT: I'm thinking now that the Torps and Missiles should be a bit higher rated, even if i'm using ratios, I'm gonna guess that a single Pcannon doesn't do as much damage as an AR Missile. And a single Torp probably does at least 3x as much damage as a single pcannon... If i had actual values, I could calculate appropriate ratios... but alas, i'm just taking a stab in the dark here.
[ This Message was edited by: Krim {C?} on 2009-10-26 03:05 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2009-10-26 06:01
FYI, ODL = laser.
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2009-10-26 13:05
Yeah, sorry:
ODL = Orbital Defense Laser, made separate so we could balance defense a bit better..
Also, all gadgets on the dbases are level 5 - cruiser equivalent.
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* [S.W]AdmBito @55321 Sent \"I dunno; the French had a few missteps. But they're on the right track, one headbutt at a time.\"
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Krim {C?}
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: June 24, 2002
Posts: 362
From: Boston MA
| Posted: 2009-10-27 01:43
Quote:
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On 2009-10-26 13:05, Shigernafy wrote:
Yeah, sorry:
ODL = Orbital Defense Laser, made separate so we could balance defense a bit better..
Also, all gadgets on the dbases are level 5 - cruiser equivalent.
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Right. I was assuming ODL is the equivelent of a CL200 or something like that?
What does everyone think of my math? I mean, it's basically a ratio type of setup, assuming things like ARmkII is 2x as strong as a single AR is easy... the other stuff isn't as simple, for instance how strong is a pcannon compared to a hvy and how does that compare to a torp.
I tried my best, I'm curious what everyone thinks of my Spreadsheet magic? Does it seem close to what you're seeing in testing? ICC PD seems extremly strong... compared to others. Not to mention they have shields availble also... yet thier PD costs exactly the same as UGTO, and the Kluth sucks up power... I think if anything, the ICC PD needs to cost more power since it's so much more effective with it's Pulse Lasers..
Also, the Kluth Mixed II and Offensive I bases are almost on par with each other (if my calculations hold any weight)
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"Universum est gelu quod atrum , nos es unus verus lux lucis"
GTN - Veneratio est Totus
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2009-10-27 15:58
I haven't had a chance to look at it much, as I'm overseas. But just to address one part of your comment, MK2 and Heavy is just double the standard. Its created purely to cut down on gadget numbers and just replaces two slots with one, with damage and whatever directly doubled. So yes, you can assume that.
Comparing across factions or torps to missiles is a little harder, but you can generally make pretty safe assumptions, as it seems you have.
Edit:
Also, I'll have to look at the code when I get back to see if your values should be tweaked. Are ITs really twice as good as ARs, for example? How does the ODL compare to the pulse?
I would also argue that while the Assault Ruptor is obviously a beam and can shoot down bombs, it would be more useful shooting ships. At the same time, they prioritize bombs, but if you happen to get close and not have enough projectiles around, you're going to get a pretty good burn from them (in theory). That might be worth trying to take into account as well... maybe. That would make things more complicated, conditional, and based on judgment, though.
The real trick is figuring out the proper changes from your comparisons. How do you judge beam recharge time vs beam damage (ie, anti-bomb effectiveness vs anti-ship effectiveness)? Are cannons more effective than torps in deterring ships, because they have better range and are harder to dodge? Since missiles are less effective as ships get nearer the planet, are they decent defense?
All things to consider.
[ This Message was edited by: Shigernafy on 2009-10-28 05:19 ]
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* [S.W]AdmBito @55321 Sent \"I dunno; the French had a few missteps. But they're on the right track, one headbutt at a time.\"
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