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just wondering |
*COMMANDERHAWK*
Chief Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: February 03, 2006
Posts: 260
From: Denver Colorado
|  Posted: 2009-10-19 21:51
ok i have a question witch noone seems to be able to answer why do the kluth have the sipon and the krill yet ugto and icc only have the one fleet admiral ship ? and why do kluth have a cloak on there transports but ugto and icc dont have the special abilities on there transports and extractors ? just wondering
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Kestalkayden
Marshal
Joined: June 04, 2005
Posts: 85
| Posted: 2009-10-19 22:15
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On 2009-10-19 21:51, COMMANDERHAWK wrote:
ok i have a question witch noone seems to be able to answer why do the kluth have the sipon and the krill yet ugto and icc only have the one fleet admiral ship ? and why do kluth have a cloak on there transports but ugto and icc dont have the special abilities on there transports and extractors ? just wondering
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I asked that too once. I got, "Because they are special" and was brushed off.
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Seraphim
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 11
From: Singapore
| Posted: 2009-10-19 22:35
Same as why Kluth dont get any dreads at VA
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2009-10-19 22:57
K'luth ships usually require a higher rank then their equivalant ship as is. I can assure you that the ranks and badges aren't picked willy nilly. Their was some kind of reason behind it. Ask doran or Draf.
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*COMMANDERHAWK*
Chief Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: February 03, 2006
Posts: 260
From: Denver Colorado
| Posted: 2009-10-19 23:40
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On 2009-10-19 22:35, Fatal Seraphim wrote:
Same as why Kluth dont get any dreads at VA
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well ive asked before about getting kluth a va dread just as ive been tring to get icc more player friendly extra hyull ect or better shields so im not all one sided i just think things should be more balanced me personaly i think the gang should be a va ship but thats just me
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Sixkiller
Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 1786
From: Netherlands
| Posted: 2009-10-20 01:15
Quote:
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On 2009-10-19 23:40, COMMANDERHAWK wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-10-19 22:35, Fatal Seraphim wrote:
Same as why Kluth dont get any dreads at VA
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well ive asked before about getting kluth a va dread just as ive been tring to get icc more player friendly extra hyull ect or better shields so im not all one sided i just think things should be more balanced me personaly i think the gang should be a va ship but thats just me
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I agree, the Ganglia would be the best option for a VA ship.
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ZeroCool[No Lame No Fame]
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 69
From: Another Plan of Existence
| Posted: 2009-10-20 01:20
ICC and UGTO are humans, kluth aren't.If for example ICC have ships that are counterparts of certain UGTO ships, its because theyr all human, and that doesn't make K'luth be the same.I hope you get the ideea.Bottom line imho, is that ships,badges,ranks etc are well balanced.
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2009-10-20 01:30
I am in full support of that. Gang should be a VA dread. not saying that because i AM a VA or anything, but i think that would be good.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-10-20 04:56
Players starting after .482 may not realize why ship requirements for K'Luth seem so odd.
K'Luth had 3 dreads only. A lighter dread (Mandy), a heavier combat dread (Siphon), and a command dread (Ganglia). They were set to a higher rank because the cruisers and destroyers were more powerful than the human faction's equivalent ships. The cruisers and dessies were meant and at the time WERE IN FACT the mainstay ships of the K'Luth arsenal. The small hull class ships were designed for fast hit and run, but they truly were weaker in armor and so - so on energy than their human counterparts.
The Ganglia was once equiped with a supply (which could be swapped out for a build mod), and wasn't very heavily weaponed. The Siphon was the heaviest hitter in the fleet under the Hive.
Now, it may seem weird, but 3 dreads were all we had, and 3 dreads are all we should have. It is this idea that you are bringing balance to the game by making all the factions "equal" that has given us too many advantages that we did not have before.
Now we have to have a missle dread. Why? Because the humans do.
Now we have to have 3 stations. Why? Because the humans do.
Now we want to have dreads available at a lower rank. Why? Because the humans do.
Its this idea that if we all have the exact same ships, only with a different skin and a different name that it brings balance. Well guess what. That is not true.
There was far more balance in .482 than there is now. If the devs would return the Dessie and Cruiser back to its primary roles as the main strike ships of the K'Luth, you'd see better balance now tho.
But I know for a fact that there is one of them that has always hated the idea of 2 dessies taking down his precious EAD, and I'm not suprised at how the nerfbat has been weilded against our smaller ships, even tho it was swung before he became a dev.
Now that their attempts at balance have set our ships so far out of whack, maybe they should redo the requirments.
And another thing. The more that these three factions are basically all carbon copies, expect to see people lose interest. I was attracted to K'Luth originally because I didn't like messing with shield rotation, and I wanted more of a challenge than "find biggest ship I can spawn, point jump enemy, spacebar, rinse/repeat".
Guess what Kluth is becoming.
Spawn biggest ship I can get, jump enemy, spacebar, rinse/repeat.
Sorry, 4:30 in the morning and my coffee just finished, so I haven't had a cup yet as I write this. I just wanted to fill in some information for those asking the "why does K'Luth..." questions.
[ This Message was edited by: Azreal on 2009-10-20 05:29 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2009-10-20 05:05
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On 2009-10-20 04:56, Azreal wrote:
But I know for a fact that there is one of them that has always hated the idea of 2 dessies taking down his precious EAD, and I'm not suprised at how the nerfbat has been weilded against our smaller ships.
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QQ
K'luth have different ranks to their human counterparts because K'luth ships are very different to fly compared to ICC and UGTO. ICC and UGTO have a sense of similarity between them (both can duke it out to an extent), whereas K'luth are a completely different contender.
Their ships can be harder for players to fly due to their required hit-and-run design, which some players cannot comprehend until after some play time. In addition to this, K'luth ships tend to be much more powerful than their counterparts. A single alpha from an ICC or UGTO ship might not even bare hull on a K'luth ship, but the K'luth ship can easily chew through shield and armour alike like it's butter.
However, it is true that the ranks haven't been looked at since before 1.5. If you guys feel that the ranks are slightly out of balance, then we'll address that.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash on 2009-10-20 05:25 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-10-20 05:32
Don't go messing with "balance" anymore though, unless a clear-cut vision of all 3 factions is released. Right now Kluth are stronger, but I feel it's because of the way Kluth need to be played, not necessarily the ships themselves. Kluth are required to use teamwork and coordinate their attacks, because in 1v1 situations they don't have the staying power. They're not built to sustain damage over a period of time.
You won't often see a Kluth win a 1v1 duel vs a human with an "equal" dread, unless it's a missile dread vs ganglia (not exactly equals). That Kluth is most likely gonna cloak or jump away, because he will be hulled before the human is. A Mandible vs a Battle Dread will see the Battle Dread victorious if the Kluth is foolish enough to stick around the whole time instead of doing what he's supposed to do which is hit & run.
Vs new or inebriated players, yeah a Kluth dread stands a chance 1v1 
It was this way last time I played a few months ago, and I'm pretty sure it hasn't changed.
As for ganglia being made vice admiral, I don't agree. The ganglia cannot be used the way the other Kluth ships are used. It doesn't rely on powerful alpha strikes, but rather distance. It's the Kluth's version of a human ship (in my mind). It's tricky to use if you don't know exactly what you can and cannot do with it (like when should you use it? Which faction is it better against? How far away should you stay from the enemy?). I actually really like my ganglia. Cannons and missiles instead of disruptors and torpedoes is a totally different kind of fighting, but at the same time if you expect it to perform like a human dread you're dead. Players new to Kluth might have a hard time with it, and may brand it a piece of junk.
If I decide to re-sub, which I may if this increased playerbase stays at least steady (I want it to grow though!), I'll be using it again.
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Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: February 04, 2006
Posts: 581
From: Norway
| Posted: 2009-10-20 06:05
erm..luth have like amost always been best at 1 vs 1..
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2009-10-20 06:58
ICC also can't be played solo. The strategy you're supposed to employ with them only works if you've got teams and teamwork, so I disagree that K'Luth should have higher rank requirements based on their requirement for teamwork alone.
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Pegasus
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 02, 2005
Posts: 434
From: Eleventh galaxy on the right!
| Posted: 2009-10-20 07:00
Being a Kluth veteran combateer pilot and trying out different factions lately I feel before any more balance is injected into the game ICC really do need another look into their game play/shields or lack of.
It was nice to see more than 2 ICC players on last night and it was enjoyable, as equally as enjoyable to what one would expect from UGTO or K'luth in the past.
I will come forward and say i am not that experienced as a ICC combat pilot than I am as a K'luth pilot, but I do have a liking towards the Assault Dread but every time I want to throw it into combat whether it be a home match or an away match (thank you Steve  ) I find myself micromanaging my shields more than paying attention to my situational awareness of whats going on around me, and thus spending far less time in combat than I should be. Maybe it is me being less adept as a ICC pilot but i feel for anyone wanting to explore ICC faction this is a extremely steep learning curve (worse than K'luth currently) when you wont find much combat.
I also feel we can ignore the cries we need for a dread at VA for K'luth if only the Devs could put the Scale back to its 1.483 load out protential as a medium/long range gunboat. Rather than a self-siphonated beam machine. That way the VA will have a reasonable cruiser with considerable amount of firepower that would equal a carrier dread/missile dread but being weaker in hull/armour.
For combat it would carry them quite happily until their first dread rank of Admiral and also would make the Scale a more mainstay cruiser of the K'luth faction than having to use its less powerful version of the Parasite.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-10-20 07:11
Kluth are not best 1 on 1. That's not how they're designed. Kluth are hulled much easier than humans, especially vs UGTO with reflective armor.
Ok, maybe that's where I get that feeling, because there was hardly any ICC to fight against last time I played It was always vs UGTO with reflective armor.
But even still, Kluth are not designed to slug it out in 1v1, without needing to cloak.
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On 2009-10-20 06:58, Bardiche wrote:
ICC also can't be played solo. The strategy you're supposed to employ with them only works if you've got teams and teamwork, so I disagree that K'Luth should have higher rank requirements based on their requirement for teamwork alone.
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It's not because of teamwork. I was mentioning teamwork to show why Kluth are accused of being overpowered so often.
The ganglia should not be a VA ship because it's not like the other Kluth ships. It makes sense that it's higher rank and needs more experience to use, because if you jump into one at VA after using close-range Kluth ships you're gonna get killed.
[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2009-10-20 07:19 ]
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