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 Author Darkspace Balance
Tiffy Rando
Grand Admiral

Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 354
From: Austin, Texas
Posted: 2009-11-28 20:52   
Okay, well if what draf is saying is true, then there's a very clever system in place that at least on paper seems to do what its intended to.

However the point I was trying to make is that the smaller classes of ships used to be quite fun to pilot even versus dreads and stations, because they could actually make a dent.

Now, however even though their survivability is not bad, they simply cannot do enough damage to a large target to make them worth using.

If I were to take a crack at adjusting this I would actually start with torpedoes.

I might create a system where smaller ships carried a more limited number of high-damage torpedoes where as mid and larger sized ships would carry larger magazines of somewhat less powerful torpedoes.

The idea being that a small ship such as a destroyer would be able to deal enough damage to pose a threat, however limitations on ammo would keep them from being able to solopwn a dread, at least not without some help.

A Cruiser however would be more capable of catching and dealing with the destroyer, justifying the destroyers ability (if the pilot is talented) to critically damage if not destroy the cruiser.

Dreads and cruisers however are designed to deal with large numbers of targets across a broader spectrum of classes, where the somewhat lighter faster and definitely more numerous torpedoes would be of benefit.

To justify this further, a small ship would be able to return to a repair center, replenish ammunition, and make it back to the field in the amount of time it would take for a dread to complete only half of that trip.


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Flagship: MCC-717: C.S.S Antaeus

Starcommander
Marshal

Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
Posted: 2009-11-28 22:31   
Quote:

On 2009-11-28 20:52, Tiffy Rando wrote:
Okay, well if what draf is saying is true, then there's a very clever system in place that at least on paper seems to do what its intended to.

However the point I was trying to make is that the smaller classes of ships used to be quite fun to pilot even versus dreads and stations, because they could actually make a dent.

Now, however even though their survivability is not bad, they simply cannot do enough damage to a large target to make them worth using.

If I were to take a crack at adjusting this I would actually start with torpedoes.

I might create a system where smaller ships carried a more limited number of high-damage torpedoes where as mid and larger sized ships would carry larger magazines of somewhat less powerful torpedoes.

The idea being that a small ship such as a destroyer would be able to deal enough damage to pose a threat, however limitations on ammo would keep them from being able to solopwn a dread, at least not without some help.

A Cruiser however would be more capable of catching and dealing with the destroyer, justifying the destroyers ability (if the pilot is talented) to critically damage if not destroy the cruiser.





This has already been started with the ICC Sensor and Stealth corvettes. One has 2 Heavy Railguns and a normal rail with a Torp, the other has 4 Torps. Both of these ships are fast and corner vary quickly. Hard to hit and both pack a punch since they both can easily hit a dread or cruiser due to them beaing a much bigger target to hit. Couple that with fast reloading and faster bullet travel and you can see why the DPS vs bigger targets is higher.
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Tiffy Rando
Grand Admiral

Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 354
From: Austin, Texas
Posted: 2009-11-28 23:41   
Yeah I just tried the new scouts out today and they seemed solid, though I still think its a concept that could be expanded on.

Still, great step in the right direction.
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ssj4megaman
Grand Admiral

Joined: January 06, 2003
Posts: 54
From: San Diego
Posted: 2009-11-29 00:56   
Well i completely agree with whats being said.. but i think DS/MV should be a moving battlefront. like unreal tournament capture mechanic..

You cannot cap X planet until you have capped Y and Z planet. That makes EVERYONE fight for Y and Z until someone caps it then they have to fallback to X and everyone fight at X till its taken.... this is how you make peple work together for a common goal. now it doesnt have to have a 2 planet battlefront like imentioned but the premise is there.....

2. Allow ship modding in some form, I LOVED modding my ship. It shouldnt unbalance things unless the weapons themselves are blanced.. (energy use, projectile range/speed/ recharge rate etc)

3. All i played in the old days were scenerio's.. i didnt even start touching MV until my last few months in the game back in 01. Hell i didn't even know what the mv was.

4a If you win a scenerio give a HUGE prestige boost or IF you win the MV.
4b. IF you win the scenerio give a special ship only that race can access for winning. powerful but useful.... maybe a glass cannon.

What the point of fighting if there is nothing to win.. (current MV)

ALSO there should be a huge prestige bonus for people using small ships, supplies, scout etc... or they get the best mission bonus prestige like the old system had...
[ This Message was edited by: ssj4megaman on 2009-11-29 00:57 ]
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Frisky Dingo
1st Rear Admiral

Joined: October 05, 2009
Posts: 17
Posted: 2009-11-29 01:38   
Tie invading a planet in with blockading a planet.

A planet has to be blockaded a certain amount of time before it can be invaded. This time period could represent the time that is spent weakening a planet through starvation and seige, weakening the resistance enough that an invasion is possible. It would extend the amount of time needed to take a planet, would actually force Kluth to be visible to perform the blockade, and would allow just a little bit more slow down to the process.

Are we supposed to be able to take a planet single handedly when it has full defense is the question I would ask. If not, then the planet defenses should be even MORE brutal.


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Leonide
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights


Joined: October 01, 2005
Posts: 1553
From: Newport News, Virginia
Posted: 2009-11-29 04:39   
Quote:

On 2009-11-29 01:38, Frisky Dingo wrote:
Tie invading a planet in with blockading a planet.

A planet has to be blockaded a certain amount of time before it can be invaded. This time period could represent the time that is spent weakening a planet through starvation and seige, weakening the resistance enough that an invasion is possible. It would extend the amount of time needed to take a planet, would actually force Kluth to be visible to perform the blockade, and would allow just a little bit more slow down to the process.

Are we supposed to be able to take a planet single handedly when it has full defense is the question I would ask. If not, then the planet defenses should be even MORE brutal.






i second this. that should be the way to do things. give a chance to defend the planet.
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Starcommander
Marshal

Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
Posted: 2009-11-29 05:16   
Would love to see the Offensive II defense bases fire 1 or 2 core weps on top of haveing the 1 super heavy rail/psi/partical. Make the QST and SI the same range for them (since these are planet based guns they would have enough power to send the shot the distance) since the Ion would be king of this. Also the bunker bases should not only have there 2 CL and 3 pules (or however many its got for type II) but also have 4HCL on the II's and 2 HCL on the I's. I mean make all the def types are just completely unforgiving. So that if you are stupid enough to attempt to solo tranny rush the planet before attempting to break the planet (via fighter bombing or otherwise) that is just rips you apart cloak or not you would be toast. Planets need to have the firepower to keep an invasion force at bay for a while and make them lay siege to it. Another thing is make bombing more profitable. I mean right now bombing sucks and it barely gives any pres, like the old days when you could get an easy 100 or more pres from a single MIRV cloud. Not saying bring back MIRV bombing (although I wouldn't mind it) but make bombing give more pres for damage dealt.
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Tiffy Rando
Grand Admiral

Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 354
From: Austin, Texas
Posted: 2009-11-29 19:05   
I checked out the ICC torpedo scout a little against a UGTO and an ICC dread today, it did okay against the ICC dread's shields but did virtually nothing against the dread, who had a nearly depleted rear arc and 34% hull.

I actually fired ten or eleven salvos into him, all of which hit and was surprised to not really see anything happen after having tested it against an ICC dread, where each volley depleted 3-4% overall shield strength.

I've thought this through a little and I think that the weapon layouts and damage make sense for a ship of it's scale but it still doesn't make me want to fly one.

So here's my thought... What if when a player spawns in a scout they don't spawn an individual craft, but instead spawn a squadron of four scouts. One scout, the leader, would be flown by the player and the other vessels would be set to follow it, and attack any target fired on by the player.

Frigates in turn would spawn in trios, and would be the best option for chasing down scouts with a better combination of sensors speed and firepower than most other vessels.

Any thoughts?

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Sens [R33]
Admiral

Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
Posted: 2009-11-29 19:47   
Quote:

On 2009-11-29 19:05, Tiffy Rando wrote:
I checked out the ICC torpedo scout a little against a UGTO and an ICC dread today, it did okay against the ICC dread's shields but did virtually nothing against the dread, who had a nearly depleted rear arc and 34% hull.

I actually fired ten or eleven salvos into him, all of which hit and was surprised to not really see anything happen after having tested it against an ICC dread, where each volley depleted 3-4% overall shield strength.

I've thought this through a little and I think that the weapon layouts and damage make sense for a ship of it's scale but it still doesn't make me want to fly one.

So here's my thought... What if when a player spawns in a scout they don't spawn an individual craft, but instead spawn a squadron of four scouts. One scout, the leader, would be flown by the player and the other vessels would be set to follow it, and attack any target fired on by the player.

Frigates in turn would spawn in trios, and would be the best option for chasing down scouts with a better combination of sensors speed and firepower than most other vessels.

Any thoughts?





To sum it up briefly, no.
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Tiffy Rando
Grand Admiral

Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 354
From: Austin, Texas
Posted: 2009-11-29 20:29   
So no thoughts? Sweet, I'm a genius
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Flagship: MCC-717: C.S.S Antaeus

Sens [R33]
Admiral

Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
Posted: 2009-11-29 20:57   
If by no thoughts before denial, yes.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal

Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
Posted: 2009-11-30 01:46   
Quote:

On 2009-11-28 18:42, MrSparkle wrote:
Quote:

On 2009-11-28 16:52, Drafell wrote:
A dread fitted with lvl 2 cannons instead of lvl 6 while firing at a destroyer would actually do more aggregate damage due to accuracy and fire rate than a dread fitted with lvl 6's...

The calculations are little more complex than this, but hopefully this should give you an idea.




Wait, lower level weapons are more accurate? Is that a result of the speed of the projectiles only, or is it because they have an actual accuracy value?




I'm taking a flying guess and thinking it's a side effect of greater speed. I have noticed this in regards to smaller ships' cannons. I didn't notice it as much until i went to scenario and played ICC and UGTO a bit. BIG difference in cannon speed, the result of which is better overall accuracy.
I'm not saying they dont have an accuracy modifier of some kind, but Draffel's answer leads me to believe if they have one it's not what is at play there....
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Sens [R33]
Admiral

Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
Posted: 2009-11-30 16:24   
Quote:

On 2009-11-29 04:39, Leonide wrote:
Quote:

On 2009-11-29 01:38, Frisky Dingo wrote:
*snip*




i second this. that should be the way to do things. give a chance to defend the planet.




reminds me of stellar frontier... oh good days, good days.
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DMC-13
Admiral
Evil Empires Inc.

Joined: February 16, 2008
Posts: 187
From: Huntington Beach, California, USA
Posted: 2009-12-01 04:54   
Even though it's been quite a while since I've played, there's a lot of good points in all of the posts in this thread.

I really liked Fatal Starcommander's idea of how the MV could be played. Also ssj4megaman and Frisky Dingo have good ideas too, as well as a few others. Put them all together and you'd have an excellent MV.

I remember spending hours upon hours building up planets that had been captured just to have a Dread come thru and MIRV bomb most of the MV within 15 min's without taking the time to even capture a planet let alone build it up.

This went on for quite a while and each time we would recapture and rebuild. Each time making the planets defence better and toughfer. Each time gaining more systems untill we captured the entire MV.

This was not done overnight.

This was days and weeks of constant fighting, capturing and building. The combat was usually one or two system's away from us engineer's who would be working up to the front lines and if needed, would jump to the combat system and quickly fortify a planet or two with defence, supply and troop bases to help the advancing forces.

It was fun most of the time, just was too easy to wipe out hours upon hrs of work, even with speed building.

I'm not going to get into negative points about how I think building was nerfed or how AI's took over or about ships being unballanced, etc. And I'm not going to blame those as my reason for not playing DS like I used to do.

I'm just going to take a bit of time and check out how DS is now and then I'll post my opinion. Anyway, I have high hopes, an open mind and feel like a noob again. I never considered myself a veteran of this game. There were some veteran players that took the time to teach me about DS and I truly respect them and consider them master's of this game. Without saying names, I'm sure you all know who you are. If you ever need backup/support, feel free to ask and I'll be more than happy to do it.

Course it'll have to be K'Luth,



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