| Author |
[SUGGESTION] "Strike"-type ships |
Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
|  Posted: 2009-02-05 15:06
Okay, from what I can read on the forums, there is much complaining about how dreadnaughts basically dominate absolutely everything and nobody that can flies anything smaller, with the result that the poor people who fly frigates can do nothing but plink at the occasional exposed side.
In reality, it's not always the big ship that wins. Battleships had huge guns that were excellent at blowing things up from a distance, but they were vulnerable to torpedo boats that could cause severe damage with a single close-range projectile. Destroyer-class ships were originally classed as "torpedo destroyers", designed to be smaller and faster than the torpedo boats that threatened the larger battleships, and sink them before they sank the battleships.
So, in order to even up the odds for the humble frigate, perhaps there should be an equivalent vessel in DarkSpace. A Strike Frigate/destroyer/whatever, that is designed around a single ridiculously huge and slow weapon system (i.e. the equivalent of sea torpedoes, since there's no waterline to hole spaceships under), heavy frontal armour, and little else. The intent would be to fly in close, dodging enemy weapon fire, let loose a devastating volley, and fall back for another run. The dreadnaught would be unable to hit the agile ship and be unable to dodge its painfully slow payload.
In order to counter this vessel, a dreadnaught would need to be escorted by destroyers and frigates to defend against these ships, which in turn would create the need for the strike ships to be assisted by other light ships that would engage the escorts.
Naturally, this still means that you'd need, say, two or three players to fight a single dreadnaught, but those players could fly frigates instead of cruisers and the dreadnaught would be at a massive disadvantage if it insisted in remaining unsupported.
To summarise: A smaller anti-dread ship (frigate or dessie-sized or both) would necessitate the use of smaller ships to support dreads, rather than dreads being the be-all and end-all of combat vessels.
Assuming one can't fit, say, a level ten torpedo system or two to a frigate or destroyer, I'd say a loadout for a torpedo ship would simply be lots of torps in a forward mount, weak armour all around bar the front, and a token beam weapon for self-defence. The only problem I see with this is that ideally the projectiles should move so glacially slow that it's impossible to hit anything but a dread or (slow-moving) cruiser at close range, whereas the very nature of lower-level weapons is that they move faster. That, or come up with some new weapon that specifically moves slowly and goes kaboom.
Thoughts?
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Sens [R33]
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2009-02-05 21:13
Im envisioning an intertia based weapon, a dive bomber if you will, to take advantage of the high speed of lower level ships, on the other hand, torp boats should have a balance of torps mainly facing the forward arc, and not much more.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2009-02-06 20:14
Saying it before Jack : No ship smaller than a Dreadnought should ever be able to take on a dreadnought.
Ever.
No matter what.
No matter how good you are, no matter how well you fly, no matter what ship you fly, Dreadnought > Anything smaller.
We've said it before : Dreadnoughts own everything, and this is bad. Dev's have reiterated, that its not bad, its intentional. Anything that undermines this will never be implemented.
Maybe Strike-type Dreadnoughts though. Everyone loves more OP on top of OP.
-Ent
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2009-02-06 22:45
Quote:
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On 2009-02-06 20:14, Enterprise wrote:
Saying it before Jack : No ship smaller than a Dreadnought should ever be able to take on a dreadnought.
[Dread-bitching snip]
-Ent
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Ent, if you're going to be like that, you can damn well go and cry on the main site. I started this thread specifically in the beta forums to avoid all the whining and bitching that goes on in the main site, in the hope that some actual constructive talk could go on here without the usual flame warring coming up. Go and spew your bile over someone else's thread.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2009-02-06 23:15
Quote:
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On 2009-02-06 22:45, Gejaheline wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-02-06 20:14, Enterprise wrote:
Saying it before Jack : No ship smaller than a Dreadnought should ever be able to take on a dreadnought.
[Dread-bitching snip]
-Ent
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Ent, if you're going to be like that, you can damn well go and cry on the main site. I started this thread specifically in the beta forums to avoid all the whining and bitching that goes on in the main site, in the hope that some actual constructive talk could go on here without the usual flame warring coming up. Go and spew your bile over someone else's thread.
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I am deeply, deeply sorry that I crushed all your hopes and dreams by spoiling the plot ending.
Maybe when you wake up and realize nothing is going to change, you'll stop wasting forum space with useless suggestions that have been destroyed, raised, and destroyed again, many many, times over.
In the future, Ill note to let you waste your time more.
-Ent
[ This Message was edited by: Enterprise on 2009-02-06 23:17 ]
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Junky Da FunkyMonke
Admiral
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 347
From: The Hotel California, takes excursions to Deep Sexys Space every now and then
| Posted: 2009-02-07 00:27
/start_bitchfit
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Sens [R33]
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2009-02-07 12:47
haha junky, @ ent, the purpose would be to get atleast under two arcs of armor for heavier ships like cruisers to takem down, say a group of 2 "assault ships" and 2 cruisers would be able to take a dread provided that the pilots of the smaller ships are skilled.
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Sixkiller
Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 1786
From: Netherlands
| Posted: 2009-02-07 15:02
Best idea i could come up with is a small ship, that has to get in range, and STAY in range for a while, so as its weapon charges/locks on the target, and then deals a good ammount of damage. Being a smaller and weaker ship, staying close and locking on the target should be difficult.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2009-02-08 17:41
Smaller ships, with much less risk (they cost basicly nothing death-wise) should not be able to destroy ships that cost 400~ prestige on death.
We can also not set individual weapon levels on ships. It's based on hull level.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2009-02-08 17:43 ]
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2009-02-09 12:01
True enough, but we could design a weapon that's only on smaller ships, or doesn't scale on level..
ie, there's ways around this. But I'm also hesitant, in line with Ent's first post. I don't like Dreadspace, but at the same time, big ships are bigger; they have more armor, they cost more to die in, that take more time to acquire* and so forth. As much as I like the idea of skill > level, past versions were somewhat skewed in that a ship two levels below another could take it out without too much trouble. It was fun to fly a destroyer and do damage, but kinda crappy for the dread pilots: "woo, i got a dread... and then died to a destroyer." We don't want to make their only point be the fact that you can combine roles in a Command dread, for example.
I don't really have specific feedback for you.. or really at all. But as much as I might want something to change, its hard to justify it in certain ways...
* I didn't say earn on purpose. draw your own conclusions
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Sixkiller
Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 1786
From: Netherlands
| Posted: 2009-02-09 14:03
What i would like to point out is that its quickly assumed that its going about taking out. Nobody said anything about taking out. We said doing damage, theres a big difference there.
I still think that a weapon that needs to lock-on and charge when in range would be a nice feature, maybe even make it so that the target has to stay in a certain arc. Effects could be something like taking out an armor plating on that side, something along that line. Im takling about a small ship, staying within 500 gu of its target, for like a minute. If you manage that in a frigate, your doing pretty good id say.
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Leonide
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: October 01, 2005
Posts: 1553
From: Newport News, Virginia
| Posted: 2009-02-09 18:20
Quote:
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On 2009-02-08 17:41, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
Smaller ships, with much less risk (they cost basicly nothing death-wise) should not be able to destroy ships that cost 400~ prestige on death.
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translation: we want dreadspace. it was intentional.
sorry Gej, i like the idea myself, but it will never be implimented. whatever goes against the devs, no matter how good of an idea, will allways always be shot down.
[ This Message was edited by: Leonide *FM* on 2009-02-09 18:21 ]
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2009-02-10 03:16
I just find it continually hillarious that 80% of the game's ships become useless shortly after being 1/8th "through" the game prestige wise.
If you think in any way the Vice Admiral ships are 'sub-par' compared to higher ranked dreadnoughts, you'd be wrong. It's probably the only place in Darkspace now where more rank = more choices and not more power.
Instead, its more of a choice between which version of OP you want to use.
It's like getting to level 30 in WoW and then being on par with level 80's and everyone below this level range is completely and unavoidably screwed. I wonder what the new players think of this.
Oh wait. I forgot, most of them left.
-Ent
[ This Message was edited by: Enterprise on 2009-02-10 03:20 ]
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-Shadowalker-™
Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: September 23, 2007
Posts: 709
From: Shadows
| Posted: 2009-02-12 16:49
I would say that if a weapon was made that could damage to dread, put it cruiser level, then put somthing similar on the dessie level; i mean come on who wants a "Destroied" "Destroyer" >.>. At least make it so that these "Strike ships" can do some "Damage" to dreads so that dreads( if piolted by a skilled pilot) can kill the 'strike ship; but if the "strike ship pilot" can best the dread pilot in skill, then let the dread pilot be afraid of the "strike ship pilot". Just because its big and more powerful than the smaller ships, dosent mean that it has to be invincible to them.
Yes the "Strike-ships" would have to be accompanied by some other dessies or frigs or it would be massacured, but the crusiers and desstroyers need to have somthing in them hat makes dreads some what afraid of them; yes if the dread can sneak up on it and alpha it than bye bye ship, but if the stike ship can sneak up on the dread, make the dread run. give them something special.
my 2 cents...
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Sens [R33]
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2009-02-12 18:37
the point of a strike ship is to be agile and do damage, cruisers arent fast or manevurable enough(especially UGTO), strike-destroyers would be intended to damage dreads at a level slightly lower than a cruiser would.
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