| Author |
Combat Tactics: Enhancements |
Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
|  Posted: 2009-01-04 14:28
First, I think Jack's concern is that a 32gu dread has too much of an advantage over stock dreads. It would also be an issue that the dread could out run a unenhanced scout. This would be unfair in 2 ways:
1.) It take kills, or assist kills to get enhancements, this is unfair to new players in scouts and frigs. They simply dont have the fire power to make these kills.
2.) It also does not make sense for something as big as a dread to go faster(MIR excluded) than scout ships. Too much unbalance.
Second, I think it would be counter productive to have pre-packaged ship specific upgrade. Enhancement's big selling point is it's vasitility and universalness.
It would kill the fun if ur hard work killing a ship end in disapointment when u pickup a enhancement u cant use. (i.e. i dont play much icc these days, so when i pick up a shield upgrade, i get pissed.)
When ur talking about giving small ships burst of speed to evade, that engine booster( +% thrust), that slightly different than engine tuner(+% max speed) which unchecked would give us the 32 gu dread.
Still even limited to 30%, u can still do some very awsome things. Combine both with manuvering jets, and u get a extremely agile, speedy, and nibble, high-preformance ship.
think about it: the speed of a kluth AME, turn-rate of icc, it's like having a ver 1.483 AME modded AC.
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MasterChiefAcid
Cadet
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 5
| Posted: 2009-01-04 15:21
Maybe i was not being clear on the point, pertaining to the "nibblers" apply the same thinking of your 32gu dread to a corvette, and what do you get? only difference is the pilot has to nibble instead of outright unleash. The dreads may get faster, but like was stated earlier if the increase is off the vessels base speed, then a nibbler will become quite the new lil power house,cant kill what you cant hit 
*edit* after a quick reread, again apply the corresponding penalty to the say 8%+ and do not see what the problem would be, sure the supposed dread could go 32gu, but with the energy tax, i highly doubt he could keep it up for long especially firing weapons.
[ This Message was edited by: MasterChiefAcid on 2009-01-04 15:26 ]
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Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
| Posted: 2009-01-04 17:20
How much energy is the dread going 32gu/s going to have to do anything at all?
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KiraWolf
Admiral
Joined: February 23, 2009
Posts: 12
| Posted: 2009-02-28 01:05
I don't mind caps on the max of enchacements... but the only one problem I have is your thinking of adding enchacement die when ships die... Personally, I don't agree with this.
Maybe, a drop % i.e. minors die at 60%, advanced die at 5% or something... so there is still a gamble...
(also, with the whole losing stuff at dying, it makes you seem like you don't want people to fight.)
Just my opinions.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-02-28 12:57
Limiting the % bonuses ships can have will result in cookie-cutter enhancement layouts. Every ship will be basically the same. Plus, there's no way to get an 80% bonus? Even with advanced or enhanced enhacements (which for some reason vary from 5% to 6%; why are advanced armor 6% and enhanced 5%, when advanced multiplexer is 5% and enhanced 6%?). You can maybe get 48% if you're extremely lucky. And I mean extremely lucky...players rarely drop decent enhancements.
That extremely lucky +48% to one thing means the ship is weaker in all other areas. It balances out. Those Battle Stations flying around with 8 advanced weapon multiplexers that give them +40% projectile damage? Their armor, beams and energy usage suffer.
One more thing. From what I've seen so far the enhancement values are:
Minor: +1% (players LOVE to drop these! Even the battle stations)
Limited: +2%
Standard: +3%
Enhanced: either +5% or +6% (enhanced weapon multiplexer is +6%, vs advanced multipexer +5%)
Advanced: either +6% or +5% (advanced armor is +6%, vs enhanced armor +5%)
Improved: not sure, never got one
(enhanced multiplexer value is switched with advanced for some reason)
There's also rare enhancements that go beyond these values, but nobody knows where the really good ones drop, like Thali or Zlyg's. Zlarr's Defense is pretty common and gives +7% armor +7% shields. I forget Dark Blue Exhuast values but it's also pretty common and goes beyond advanced in at least one stat.
Listen to us when we say that limiting enhancements will result in cookie-cutter ships, which means why bother with enhancements in the first place?
EDIT: I'm 100% against the idea of losing enhancements if you die, even if the chance is small. People aren't going to want to fight. You think AI farming is bad now? Wait till people have a chance at losing those rare enhancements it took them a long time to get.
[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2009-02-28 12:59 ]
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2009-02-28 13:02
Yes, god forbid you lose you wind up having to farm elite frigates again.
-Ent
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2009-02-28 13:49
Having read this topic name again, I couldn't help but picture people throwing enhancements out of their ships at others, attempting to damage them.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-02-28 14:08
Quote:
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On 2009-02-28 13:02, Enterprise wrote:
Yes, god forbid you lose you wind up having to farm elite frigates again.
-Ent
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It's true. You will have tons of people farming elite frigates, no matter how rare they spawn. We already have too many people farming them, because they're the only way to get good enhancements.
Many players have been asking: Why don't you make players drop the enhancements that the elites drop? Encourage pvp and discourage ai farming!
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2009-02-28 14:15
Quote:
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On 2009-02-28 14:08, MrSparkle wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-02-28 13:02, Enterprise wrote:
Yes, god forbid you lose you wind up having to farm elite frigates again.
-Ent
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It's true. You will have tons of people farming elite frigates, no matter how rare they spawn. We already have too many people farming them, because they're the only way to get good enhancements.
Many players have been asking: Why don't you make players drop the enhancements that the elites drop? Encourage pvp and discourage ai farming!
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Players do drop rare enhancements such enhanced weapon cooler..
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-02-28 14:58
Enhanced isn't rare. It's a green enhancement, and should be a lower % than advanced. The good enhancements, the rare ones, are blue or purple.
Well, enhanced is "rare" as in rarely does a player drop anything that good. But enhanced is not as good as advanced (except for multiplexer which I suspect is accidentally reversed).
When players start dropping advanced, Zlarr's, Dark Blue, minor builds, Thari, Zlyg's etc. we can say that players drop rare enhancements. When they keep dropping minors, limiteds, the occasional standard, and rarely enhanced or improved we can say the game favors elite ai farming.
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Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
| Posted: 2009-02-28 19:09
Hmm, is elite farming so bad? I sorta think they contribute. never bothered with Rogen rifts before the elites. In areas like Rogen, it's forcing higher ranked players to go back flying crusies and dressies. I rediscover how much fun it was flying a Claw again.
The absence of Dreads allow the assult class dressys to really shine out. It kinda feels good to see that kind of dogfight after all those dread battles.
It's alot more challenging than PvP in sag in the sense that when a elite shows up, theres mad dash to see who gets to it first. All kinds of weird tactics show up.
and the way AI ships are actually a pretty big threat, even in pairs and trios, it 's refreshing.
I'll still get pissed if I loose my enhanced ships, dont get me wrong. But a good health population in Rogen server, i think, will help players to experience aspects of the game lost due to the dreadspace issue.
So i say: keep those elites coming, and maybe allow enhancements to disapear after u die, It might be good for the darkspace society.
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Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
| Posted: 2009-02-28 20:52
Can you people please get away from that "force players to" nonsense?
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-02-28 21:00
But Delando no vet plays in Rogens Rift to pvp. In fact most people in RR don't attack each other, as if there was a perpetual truce in effect. The sever is strictly for elite farming. That may not be the case with the free trial going on, but when it's over that's how it will be again.
There's no prestige to be gained in RR. That's why you only see elite farming and truces all the time.
[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2009-03-01 00:42 ]
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2009-03-01 00:39
The whole point of Rogen's Rift was not for vet's, but for newer players. There's a good reason why its locked at cruiser level.
Vet's were probably never intended to go in there and farm elite AI's for uber enhancements for their already powerful dreadnoughts.
Endgame = PvP, therefore, doesn't it make sense that at least that that is the source of vet's good enhancements?
I mean, at least make the MI drop something decent, right now they're pointless. With prestige nerfed (a GOOD thing), you can only really stand up to them once you get virtually no prestige for them, and they drop the same if not worse than players do. Don't even get me started on the only elite AI that the MI have, which is ten kinds of annoying to kill, incredibly rare, and hardly ever drops anything decent.
So yeah, I'm totally in favor of players dropping great enhancements, possibly scaled by what ship died (stations giving obviously better rewards than scouts), and the rank (Chief Marshalls giving better than VA's, for example). And so on.
-Ent
-Ent
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-03-01 00:42
I don't think it was originally intended for newer players? It was changed to rank-restricted sometime after 1.5.
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