| Author |
[SUGGESTION] Platforms n such |
Tiffy Rando
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 354
From: Austin, Texas
|  Posted: 2008-10-26 13:48
Read through this one  don't just do the skim-n-reply.
I know this is old hash, I do remember making this suggestion something like 4 years ago. However the current features in the game are somewhat more congruent to the idea and I think it's time to ressurect it.
Right now I think that we all agree that planet def is a mixed bag.
When a planet is working properly (again, when), and it has been well built, it is actually quite difficult to bomb, and if even one person is defending it pretty much is enough to halt the solo bomber, even the Command dread/supply team + analogs.
However I think that we all agree that planet defense needs to be a little more agressive.
Fighter bases are out of the question because of what they do to server stability, and the uberpwn death bases of 1.483 that fired AM torps and assault beams are out of the picture because it would greatly discourage new players to see their little frigate or scout get instapopped every time they approach.
So then, what?
Well now defense platforms are a part of the equation, assuming that people remember to build them. However while they provide adequate missile spam and point defense, they really don't do much of anything, let alone scare off the ambitious bomber dreadnought.
(edit) I've been informed that current platforms actually DO carry core weapons, and as Jbud discovered if you have ENOUGH of them they are quite capable of killing things.
[EDIT] I recently faced down against an ICC planet smothered in about 25-30 platforms... They were pretty hardcore for a littlewhile but no one re-supplied them and they sort of stopped shooting after a bit. Myself and 2 or 3 other ships were able to defeat the cluster easily.
So who is really going to supply 30 or so platforms? When a single platform takes up 4,000-5,000 or so resources. Planets seem to average about 45K resources after they've been around for a while. It turns into a logistics bucket team... Are any of us really that ambitious? Or would we rather be directly engaging the enemy.
So my idea comes from an incident where Jackswift, or shigernafy or someone had added four 1.483 style ion cannons to a pirate shipyard planet in the beta to keep people from capping it. Well, it pwnt face. The thing was evil encarnate.
So here's my idea. We take an upscaled (1.483 style) QST, Ion Cannon, or Stellar Incinerator beef it's damage up, and slow down it's projectile velocity. Then take the whole package and put it in a somewhat larger platform equipped with just the single core weapon.
If it's still unclear where I'm going with this, look at it this way. Having two or three of these added to the other orbital defenses of a planetary cluster, would keep the big, heavy sluggers out of play until the area denial platforms were removed. The only way to take them out would be a strike group of agile fast moving vessels that could evade the slow moving projectiles and destroy the emplacements.
Balance would be simple, make the Area Denial platforms VERY expensive, and take a VERY long time to build, and then make them realatively fragile.
However give them very long range, enough to take potshots at a missile dreadnought attempting to pick them off from the sidelines.
I personally would enjoy this becaue it would turn each invasion into a multi-stage skirmish, where the first ships in play would be the scouts frigates and destroyers.
If your thinking that defenders will just park dreads on them, think about the long range destroyers and frigates that each faction has. Nimble enough to evade, ranged enough to keep away from dread beams
Well I guess what it comes down to is should defense platforms be split up into a defensive PD/missile type, and a long range super heavy weapon offensive type?
[ This Message was edited by: Tiffy Rando on 2008-11-13 13:04 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Tiffy Rando on 2009-01-04 16:47 ]
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Panduh
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: June 03, 2007
Posts: 250
| Posted: 2008-11-09 11:16
It actually even sounds as if it would provide ... a purpose.... for all them other non-dread ships. I'm for it.
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Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: February 04, 2006
Posts: 581
From: Norway
| Posted: 2008-11-13 04:33
Well planet def could easly be altered to do more damage and beams longer..but for the platforms the reange on them will still be a problem as u can just sitt abit away from them and kill em. So if they get super core weapon at close range then we would just sitt outside the platform range and shoot it down with missiles/figthers etc.
But this will ofc slow the prosses down abit thoug. Anways as u said it takes from 30mins to 2hours to do this depending on what faction you are, luthi got only 1 build drone so it will take double as long for them. And i think this is a problem, they wanted a more combat oriented game but when you have to use over an hour + an hour to build platforms...thats 2 hours for a luth player...when does he have time for combat?
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Tiffy Rando
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 354
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2008-11-13 12:59
I think you kinda misread what I meant... These would not be normal platforms... They would have the range of pcm. You couldn't just park a missile dread and unload at it. As well I'm sure someone would put down a normal plat or two for PD.
Also the inherent issues with incresing the strength of def bases, is that any poor nub trying to bomb in his frig or scout is gonna get instantly vaporized. That's how it was in 1483, if anyone remembers with luth def bases launching AM torps and equipped with assault ruptors.
I'm trying to come up with a solution that will leave planet def stron enough to defend against bombs and fighters, but not strong enough to instapop a nub in his scout. And simultaneously a solution that would force people to hop out of their dreads and stations and think tactically for a bit.
I actually came up with another thought that would balance the whole situation perfectly.
Instead of a large costly weakly defended platform that takes a long time to build, howabout a pilotable ship.
Sort of a miniature station with a single mammoth hypervelocity gun or something.
However to fire the weapon, the ship would need to be sitting still and "deployed." Presumably some type of device that you would turn on to park the ship and activate teh weapon.
That way if a command dread was solo bombing someone would jump in one of these siege platforms, shoot at the dread... Then the guy would go hop in a destroyer and beat the heck out of the plat till he jumped away or gave up and got his own ship... Then the guy gets some dread buddies, and the whole thing just continues to evenly escalate in terms of threat and response.
No matter how the situation plays out, I think it would be perfectly balanced. No one would go OMG stupid overpowerd sieges, cause they'd just get a smaller ship, and some friends. However the siege would be filling it's function of forcing people out of dreds and stations perfectly.
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-Shadowalker-™
Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: September 23, 2007
Posts: 709
From: Shadows
| Posted: 2008-11-13 13:47
I REALLY LIKE IT, it will definatly bring back tactitcs and make players actually think win playing the game. I am a strong supporter of this, i think it shou be implemented into them game by all means. The fact that dreads cant do anything about it makes me even more happier, not only will it git rid of dreadspace but it will help newcomers with getting to know the game. It's amazing how much that one platform could do.
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Admiral Alucard (2IC)
Marshal
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: April 30, 2004
Posts: 279
From: St. Helens, England
| Posted: 2008-11-13 13:54
So along the lines of a huge atilary barage gun then?
If thats what your suggesting it sounds like a nice addition
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-Shadowalker-™
Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: September 23, 2007
Posts: 709
From: Shadows
| Posted: 2008-11-13 14:04
This part i like
Quote:
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On 2008-11-13 12:59, Admiral Tiffy Rando wrote:
Instead of a large costly weakly defended platform that takes a long time to build, howabout a pilotable ship.
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I wouldnt mind there being a turret beside each planet that you can build that you can hope into fire at things, or better, it be remotly operated, say someone is boming a planet, your 3-5 systems away you can remotly hope into the turret and defent the planet. I would guese the turret would have only one gun but it could fire fully atmoatic and not semi like other guns. Just remember that its only one.
Now it can have a core weapon instead and you just sit here anonymously and fire core weapons at whoever your fighting. Or it could have both , one core weapon and one fully automatic weapon.
Then when you done you just turn off the turret and your back into your ship 3-5 systems away.
But of course there could be things like faulty turrets, jaming, out of ammo, over heating, etc... that would render the turret usless so it cant destroy everything in its path.
Just some thoughts.
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Tiffy Rando
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 354
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2008-11-14 12:17
While a turret would be fun I'm not sure about how programmable it is with the current system.
However I'd like to make a point of elaborating on my idea for the siege platform to be a pilotable ship.
It would have it's main weapon, mounted fore... a jump drive, single engine, a few point defense beams, armor/shields... Then an ECCM or scanner. Maybe a missile launcher.
Overall with the exception of its main gun, not a terribly impressive piece of hardware.
The main gun would have about the same range as a PCM.
In terms of game balance, since it would be a ship and not a buildable platform, you could not spam a dozen of them in a single place.
As well the fragility of the ship means that taking them outside of a dictor field would be nearly suicidal.
So effectively the ship would function in one capacity and one capacity only... Neutralizing stations and dreadnoughts within range of the planet its defending.
The weapon itself I'd imagine would have 25-30 shots in it, which would mean it would require supplies... From a ship, platform or depot.
So, taking one out, alone in defense of a planet would ward off the lone command dread or station... However if they have a destroyer that can evade your shots, then you'll need additional defenders.
Hence: Balance!!!
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Flagship: MCC-717: C.S.S Antaeus
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2008-11-29 23:38
still, dreads allways just go and blow platforms........ they should do more damage against dreads and stations then smaller ships to discourage use of dreadnaughts. realy, this shouldnt be Dreadspace.
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FlyD4wn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: October 19, 2004
Posts: 138
From: Netherlands
| Posted: 2008-12-09 07:07
Quote:
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On 2008-11-29 23:38, Fatal Iwancoppa wrote:
still, dreads allways just go and blow platforms........ they should do more damage against dreads and stations then smaller ships to discourage use of dreadnaughts. realy, this shouldnt be Dreadspace.
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Did you read, Iwan?
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2008-12-12 20:32
This game is based on numbers. Insert anything u want , if u got numbers it is balanced . If you dont have enough numbers , it isnt balanced.
So why dont you make this constructable on a planet as a base instead of making it platform? Imagine someone to build it near a jumpgate. You go in and you face the freaking huge platform beaming and shooting at ya.
Let it use 200 energy and 60 population to be active. Make it rotate with planet and let defenders and attackers use more tactic to capture the planet.
Rando, it isnt a bad idea at all. In fact i like it .
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deathblave
Marshal
Joined: October 10, 2007
Posts: 268
| Posted: 2008-12-16 22:13
Quote:
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On 2008-10-26 13:48, Tiffy Rando wrote:
I know this is old hash, I do remember making this suggestion something like 4 years ago. However the current features in the game are somewhat more congruent to the idea and I think it's time to ressurect it.
Right now I think that we all agree that planet def is a mixed bag.
When a planet is working properly (again, when), and it has been well built, it is actually quite difficult to bomb, and if even one person is defending it pretty much is enough to halt the solo bomber, even the Command dread/supply team + analogs.
However I think that we all agree that planet defense needs to be a little more agressive.
Fighter bases are out of the question because of what they do to server stability, and the uberpwn death bases of 1.483 that fired AM torps and assault beams are out of the picture because it would greatly discourage new players to see their little frigate or scout get instapopped every time they approach.
So then, what?
Well now defense platforms are a part of the equation, assuming that people remember to build them. However while they provide adequate missile spam and point defense, they really don't do much of anything, let alone scare off the ambitious bomber dreadnought.
(edit) I've been informed that current platforms actually DO carry core weapons, and as Jbud discovered if you have ENOUGH of them they are quite capable of killing things.
[EDIT] I recently faced down against an ICC planet smothered in about 25-30 platforms... They were pretty hardcore for a littlewhile but no one re-supplied them and they sort of stopped shooting after a bit. Myself and 2 or 3 other ships were able to defeat the cluster easily.
So who is really going to supply 30 or so platforms? When a single platform takes up 4,000-5,000 or so resources. Planets seem to average about 45K resources after they've been around for a while. It turns into a logistics bucket team... Are any of us really that ambitious? Or would we rather be directly engaging the enemy.
So my idea comes from an incident where Jackswift, or shigernafy or someone had added four 1.483 style ion cannons to a pirate shipyard planet in the beta to keep people from capping it. Well, it pwnt face. The thing was evil encarnate.
So here's my idea. We take an upscaled (1.483 style) QST, Ion Cannon, or Stellar Incinerator beef it's damage up, and slow down it's projectile velocity. Then take the whole package and put it in a somewhat larger platform equipped with just the single core weapon.
If it's still unclear where I'm going with this, look at it this way. Having two or three of these added to the other orbital defenses of a planetary cluster, would keep the big, heavy sluggers out of play until the area denial platforms were removed. The only way to take them out would be a strike group of agile fast moving vessels that could evade the slow moving projectiles and destroy the emplacements.
Balance would be simple, make the Area Denial platforms VERY expensive, and take a VERY long time to build, and then make them realatively fragile.
However give them very long range, enough to take potshots at a missile dreadnought attempting to pick them off from the sidelines.
I personally would enjoy this becaue it would turn each invasion into a multi-stage skirmish, where the first ships in play would be the scouts frigates and destroyers.
If your thinking that defenders will just park dreads on them, think about the long range destroyers and frigates that each faction has. Nimble enough to evade, ranged enough to keep away from dread beams
Well I guess what it comes down to is should defense platforms be split up into a defensive PD/missile type, and a long range super heavy weapon offensive type?
[ This Message was edited by: Tiffy Rando on 2008-11-13 13:04 ]
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u should have seen the oycan cluster me and a couple of fatal buddies built 123 defense platforms fully resuorced it got station russed later but it was cool
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Tiffy Rando
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 354
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2009-01-03 02:08
Oh just to mention I actually gave up pushing for the platform version of this due to it's spammability, I think a player piloted version of this would work out far better. It would be more flexible, and (key-word) BALANCEd
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