| Author |
Ship Value / Resources Lost |
Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
|  Posted: 2002-01-24 18:09
The value of ships and gadgets has been implemented on the beta servers and is currently being tested. I've been forced to greatly increase ship values, so they look correct in respect to the value of the ships systems. The following are the new base prices for each class of ship:
Transport - 20,000 credits
Supply - 100,000 credits
Station - 20,000,000 credits
Scout - 10,000 credits
Frigate - 50,000 credits
Engineer - 20,000 credits
Dread - 5,000,000 credits
Destroyer - 100,000 credits
Cruiser - 500,000 credits
Based on the change in ship values, has made me change how resources lost is gained. I now use the follow forumla to determine how much to add to resources lost when a ship is destroyed.
scale = rank * 0.1
resources lost = scale * (value / 25)
Thus if a captain gets a cruiser destroyed:
scale = 6 * 0.1 = 0.6
resources lost = 0.6 * (500,000 / 25) = 12,000
prestige lost = 12,000 * 0.0025 = 30
The above forumula basically increases the costs as you rise higher in the ranks. Thus, new players will lose 0 prestige for dying, where a captain will lose much more.
-Richard
_________________
|
Demorian
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 06, 2001
Posts: 3406
From: Charlotte, North Carolina
| Posted: 2002-01-24 19:13
Well, halleluia, finally we can buy ships back. Unfortunately Faustus, this post is going to be rather critical.
20,000 credits for a transport? Thats at least 3 supply runs for the dinkiest ship in the game. Thats my first urk. Prices are WAY too high...I'll test this in beta when I get the chance, but at first glance this looks *really* bad.
SECOND and most MAJOR quirk.
Lets say Dalle makes Fleet Admiral some day. YAY!! He's worked his butt off, he's got the rank that everyone treasures, and he deserves it. Welcome to the club. WHOOHOO, time to try out the station.
A short time later...
Dalle has been destroyed by Selvarian (or someone).
Dalle has been demoted to Admiral.
Why?
Because he has just lost two thousand and two hundred prestige, under this new system. Faustus, my personal opinion is that this resources lost system is going to reaaaaally discourage players.
Why?
Because the higher we GO (which is usually the point of the game), the more we're gonna lose. Which is just bad. Really really bad. People are gonna hate that.
Don't get me wrong; I appreciate your ultrasuperhard work on this game and all that it has brought me and so many others (a hell of a lot of fun)...
But this just will not work. No way. Change the prices, and keep resources lost the same as it is now. Please.
-Dem
_________________
|
Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2002-01-24 20:20
Firstly, players don't buy the ships from their personal credits. The ships are provided by their faction, so if they are lost, then it's just calculated as resources lost... no credits are removed from the player.
Unless they sell / jettison their equipment, return / destroy the ship, then they are charged for the equipment lost at 100% cost. Basically, it will never be worth it to jettison your parts, go back into the JG, get another ship to mix/match until you have your uber ship.
So don't worry, you won't need to make 500 transport runs to buy a dinky scout for 10,000 credits.
Second, I might need to recalculate the forumula. However, I feel if a captain lost a cruiser, a very expensive ship, I think 30 prestige is a valid amount. Currently, losing a cruiser will cost you 12.5 prestige, mayby that's a little closer to what we should aim.
Anyway, a fleet admiral, mind you 40,000 prestige requried, losing a cruiser, would cost him 55 prestige, barely a dent in that 40,000. A dreadnaught however, would cost 550 points of prestige.
I propose, I just drop the base price for a dread to 2,000,000, which would bring the prestige lost to 220. Since he is a fleet admiral, he should be able to order other players to help defend him against getting killed. Additionally, this is for being a fleet admiral, if he was a vice armiral, a dread would cost 180 prestige if lost.
Your thoughts?
[ This Message was edited by: Faustus on 2002-01-24 21:00 ]
_________________
|
Cuisinart
Fleet Admiral
Joined: August 04, 2001
Posts: 747
From: MS, USA
| Posted: 2002-01-24 20:38
This sounds quite reasonable to me. Whole point is to work together anyway right?
~Cuisinart
_________________
|
Demorian
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 06, 2001
Posts: 3406
From: Charlotte, North Carolina
| Posted: 2002-01-24 20:47
Thank you for clearing that up, thats a load off of my shoulders.
_________________
|
Vinco
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: August 31, 2001
Posts: 939
From: Too Close for Comfort
| Posted: 2002-01-24 21:15
The only problem I see in this is the thought processes of many players:
"Why should I stick my neck out for him? He's going to get all the combat prestige, and they'll kill me first! NO WAY am I going to guard that guy!"
Unless it's worth their while, most players will not risk their own prestige to aid a teammate.
_________________
Vinco
In Another Place
Honor is all.
|
Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2002-01-24 22:26
Oh, I don't know. Admittedly, not everyone will help out, but usually people are pretty good about it. It is a team game, and people tend to have more fun working as a team. Sure, people won't always flock to a teammate in trouble, but if you can make a mini-fleet of three people (sometimes only two), others will usually notice the teamwork and the success along with it and join in. I've seen fleets about 12-15 people large... and it can be a lot of fun "protecting teammates."
Although you are right - often, people don't seem to care. But if you show how much fun and success you can have as a group, they will usually come along. After all, people usually go for the biggest target - the dreads.
Anyway, Maybe I'm just more optimistic than you...
-Shiger
_________________
* [S.W]AdmBito @55321 Sent \"I dunno; the French had a few missteps. But they're on the right track, one headbutt at a time.\"
|
shadedancer
Cadet
BIOnics Industry Syndicate
Joined: July 26, 2001
Posts: 497
From: Hamburg, Germany, Sol-System
| Posted: 2002-01-25 02:16
Hello,
I rather _do_ like that proposals, even if I get flamed for it now. Why?
First of all it makes the system more logical, there should be some loss for going out in a dread with your guns blazng not caring what happens with your ship and it's _crew_. People should learn to use there material respectfully. Allthough I think the proposal from Faustus second post is more reasonable (Dread ~2.000.000cr)
When I hear people complain about the high loss and how difficult it will be to accumulate that amount of money (even in a teampool, which I think is totally ok, it'll work, and it'll have the people work as a team, which is good!) they should think of the following:
1) The same difficulties apply to your enemy!
2) This is still partly a strategy game, so use your wits and do not go gunblazing into battles not caring about men and machine.
3) If you finally managa to accumulate the money for a dread in a game, that one will rule the field and it needs a lot of ships and a rather coordinated attack, to bring him down, it's not that easy.
4) The People who acquired the rank to get a Dread are pros (or veterans to stay in the scenario) and they should have learned a bit about flying a combat ship, if they haven't well then I think they deserve to get that prestige penalty and some hot breath from their team!
me and only me 0.02€
yours shadedancer 
_________________
shadedancer(@3423) ClanID ($38)
Director to Bionic InduStries [BIS]
One rule: Don't be stupid!
It's an expansive rule that covers a lot of ground
|
DrMud
Cadet
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 292
| Posted: 2002-01-25 02:46
well, that might work but if latency keeps killing me over and over again im soon demoted to midshipman !
_________________
GER_DrMud
Admiral A.D.
|
Bumblebee
Cadet
Mercenaries of Andosia
Joined: May 31, 2001
Posts: 2256
From: Switzerland
| Posted: 2002-01-25 02:57
agreed
"we" should wait until the lag/desync. and so on - related ships-lost are solved
from that moment on, we will be guilty if we loose our ship, and it is ok to get punished for it
btw. we will get rid of most of the "uber-ships" - simply because they will cost a lot of bucks
[MoA] Bumblebee
Mercenaries of Andosia
MOD of the cleanest Forum in town 
_________________
the light at the end of the tunnel often is only the reflection of your own
[ This Message was edited by: Bumblebee on 2002-01-25 02:58 ]
_________________
|
chris aka sunshine
Cadet
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1649
From: Germany
| Posted: 2002-01-25 05:25
i've to agree with bumble and drmud .. ther'll be many complaints about this now system (in my personal opinion it's perfect .. make the high-ranked players feeling sad for loosing a ship*g) until the lag problem isn't solved..
_________________
Christian 'sunshine' Weyand
|
Ragglock
Marshal
BIOnics Industry Syndicate
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1955
From: Denmark
| Posted: 2002-01-25 05:40
I love this  
_________________
P:@12 C:$38
LOVE the smell of human flesh in the morning smells like MVictory
|
shadedancer
Cadet
BIOnics Industry Syndicate
Joined: July 26, 2001
Posts: 497
From: Hamburg, Germany, Sol-System
| Posted: 2002-01-25 05:53
Bumble,
Quote:
|
On 2002-01-25 02:57, Bumblebee wrote:
agreed
"we" should wait until the lag/desync. and so on - related ships-lost are solved
|
|
yep, ok, lag problems should have been resolved before introducing this, otherwise game will get frustrating for the dread players...
yours shadedancer
_________________
shadedancer(@3423) ClanID ($38)
Director to Bionic InduStries [BIS]
One rule: Don't be stupid!
It's an expansive rule that covers a lot of ground
|
Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2002-01-25 09:29
Basically, what I really want to fix is players taking dreads ALL the time once they have the rank.
If the prestige loss is high enough, they better have a good reason and know how to use the ship without killing the 1,000 crew members onboard.
Additionally, hate to use this word... but "Bell Curve" is what I'd like to see. The majority of the players should be in the middile ranks, very few should be in the upper ranks, AND it should be easier for low-ranking players to advance as to not get discouraged. This forumla does all that... for low-ranking players, the prestige loss is none to very low for losing a ship.
The good thing, is I can change the prices of the ships without causing a bunch of problems.
_________________
|
Vinco
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: August 31, 2001
Posts: 939
From: Too Close for Comfort
| Posted: 2002-01-25 09:42
If I remember right, prestige is calculated dynamically in game... I can see the result now: "Vinco-ITG is promoted to 2RA"
"Vinco-ITG is demoted to Captain"
"Vinco-ITG is promoted to 2RA"
etc...
_________________
Vinco
In Another Place
Honor is all.
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
