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NEED ADVISE - i just got a new comp |
Lord Raiden *Super Sup*
Grand Admiral
Interstellar Cultural Confederation United
Joined: March 23, 2002
Posts: 91
From: London
|  Posted: 2007-11-29 06:28
i thought this was a simple yes or no question not a essay on what computer parts are better...... (>_<)
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DarkSpace Member Since 2002
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JBud:
Collision detection is funny huh? amazing how it can detect a tiny pcannon projectile hitting you, but a whole planet? nothing is there!
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2694
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2007-11-29 07:51
Upgrades in technology are always present.
Not to mention software not willing to stay compatible with the old stuff, witch is in both theorie and practice totally reasonable.
Witnessing the peaks of Advances should not be the privilege of just a Coherence of people, but unfortunately the world is not perfect and there is still a economy.
Therefor people willing to participate still have to decide for them selves if the can or must.
And for the people who want to but are reluctant to spend large portions of there economics on these features, there are budget versions you see in almost every IT store available.
Priced with the labels of Fastest and cheapest, there merely fabrications to keep the people who want to experience these advances made addicted to the possibilities.
Because whit-out them the might lose a lot of people who will sacrifice this for a other purpose.
But lets not forget the other group, the people addicted to advances.
The grasp the first or maybe the second opportunity to whiteness all these wonder full advances made my man in digitalization of the world around them.
There willing to pay any price to participate in this, but the forget that around them already is a world of wonders far cheaper to get.
But for these people its is not the search for already existing wonders, but for wonders that are yet to be discovered.
And there is one specialty in advantages that sparks not only a whole economy but there users as well, since this can be bought and used in the comfort surrounding of every persons home.
Welcome to the world of digitalization and its madness.
[/professor hat off]
Anny one interested in the lecture or debate about the subject "Advances of mankind" or "Technology for you" or other subjects.
The will be held on February 11th, 12th & 13th, 2008 Breda, the Netherlands.
Ok if you didn't get it, thats fine.
Take a lessons in IT economics and Buddhism. thats what i did.
And for you tech freaks.
Last upgraded 1Q 2007
Asus Crosshair NF590SLI
AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 5600+
GeiL 4 GB DDR2-800 (kit 2x 2GB)
Sapphire HD2900PRO GDDR3 512MB
Gigabyte's i-RAM [u](2x 1GB)[/u]
2x Hitachi Deskstar 7K80 40Gb S-ATA (Raid 0)
1x Hitachi Deskstar T7K500 250Gb S-ATA
Intel PRO/1000 PT Dual Server Adapter, PCIe x4
Creative SoundBlaster Audigy SE PCI
D-link DFE-550FX PCI (not currently used)
Neatgear WG311 PCI (not currently used[)
Just for games.
But i got more PC's running around here.
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| On 2007-11-29 06:28, Lord Rayden wrote:
i thought this was a simple yes or no question not a essay on what computer parts are better...... (>_<) |
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true. and we did. Graphics card to old.
And may have needed a better CPU.
[edit] [u] Underline not working.
added comment to Lord Rayden
[ This Message was edited by: Eledore[NL] on 2007-11-29 07:55 ]
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Leviatan
Cadet
Joined: April 22, 2005
Posts: 186
| Posted: 2007-11-29 08:17
Both the graphics card and CPU in the proposed computer are new; but new does not necessarily mean the best, as you can well see the 8600GT, being the budget-cut middle card of the 8 series, being outperformed by the 7 series in everything else but it's specialized field; which is SM4.0. For this it's pointless as so little physical system RAM is obsolete with any game providing SM4.0 effects.
This is especially true with AMD's new HD series; the higher caliber one, 2900 and its variants are older than the middle range version 2600 and entry-level version 2400. Newest is the ultra-quality 38xx series. As far as the consensus goes, the "heavier" end of this series is more and more unhappy with having to render SM2.0 or even SM3.0.
A heavy video card is useless without a sufficient CPU and enough system RAM, it's all or nothing, and this prebuilt proposed in the OP; has nothing.
And Eledore, I skipped the majority of your last post, as it's next to impossible to read and comprehend; you are bringing philosophy and religion into a conversation about a desktop PC, and with insufficient grammar to make sense for all parties.
[ This Message was edited by: Nuclear Cookie on 2007-11-29 08:24 ]
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Whiterin
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2007
Posts: 146
| Posted: 2007-11-29 08:20
Ok. Wow. Heres the thing. If I had thousands of dollars to spend, or someone else's money like some of you... then yeah, sure. I would go all top of the line... but its far FAR from necessary. Even with this "old" 6200 (was new when I got it) I still have no problem with it on any games I have played as of yet. So, in that sense... your comment is false. Also, like Eledore said. Things go out of date pretty fast. I for one couldn't afford to buy a new multi thousand dollar computer every 8 months to a year. If you can, all the better to you! But what is the point when I can build a computer that will play the same games as yours for a fraction of the price? See where I am coming from? I am not going to spend 4x more just so I can have a computer that will play top of the line games for 2-3 months longer. Its quite insane.
One more thing. As far as ram goes.... the more the better, of course. But unless you're going to be doing some pretty intense overclocking and such... I would just go with the cheapest for the amount. YEah. I know you're going to flame me because I don't agree that you should spend massive money just because the ram has a slightly higher "speed".
[ This Message was edited by: Whiterin on 2007-11-29 08:22 ]
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Leviatan
Cadet
Joined: April 22, 2005
Posts: 186
| Posted: 2007-11-29 08:42
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On 2007-11-29 08:20, Whiterin wrote:
Ok. Wow. Heres the thing. If I had thousands of dollars to spend, or someone else's money like some of you... then yeah, sure. I would go all top of the line... but its far FAR from necessary. Even with this "old" 6200 (was new when I got it) I still have no problem with it on any games I have played as of yet. So, in that sense... your comment is false. Also, like Eledore said. Things go out of date pretty fast. I for one couldn't afford to buy a new multi thousand dollar computer every 8 months to a year. If you can, all the better to you! But what is the point when I can build a computer that will play the same games as yours for a fraction of the price? See where I am coming from? I am not going to spend 4x more just so I can have a computer that will play top of the line games for 2-3 months longer. Its quite insane.
One more thing. As far as ram goes.... the more the better, of course. But unless you're going to be doing some pretty intense overclocking and such... I would just go with the cheapest for the amount. YEah. I know you're going to flame me because I don't agree that you should spend massive money just because the ram has a slightly higher "speed".
[ This Message was edited by: Whiterin on 2007-11-29 08:22 ]
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So you are trying to argue that your old and obsolete GeForce 6200 can play all your games, without even mentioning what games do you play, what are their minimum and recommened specification requirements?
You have the mainstream, stereotypized view of computer upgrading, assuming it's pointless because it's presumably obsolete in the next year, which was at no point even suggested; instead it looks like you misinterpreted something that was meant to imply, that the 6200 lacks certain capabilities to run certain processes and features through hardware, and is therefore unable to play games that require them.
It's also not faring well with modern games, as it's designed for way different coding.
A multithousand dollar computer is an exaggeration; I can build an AMD dual core system with 4Gb Corsair RAM, x1950XT PCI-e video card, casing, 250gb harddrive, casing and sufficient PSU for roughly 485€.
If I went and built it, I would not have to make a complete computer again until a new AMD CPU socket is released, I could just keep upgrading the video card. This could result in an approximate cost of 150-200€ per year due to video card upgrades.
Doesnt look like a multithousand gig to me.
What comes to the RAM, trying to put PC2-7200 in a mobo with a slow CPU... Results in alot of grief, as it simply wont work properly. If it works, it works very inefficiently due to extreme CPU:Memory speed ratios.
I want to see you boot up X3: Reunion with even low quality on that rig of yours, Whiterin. X3 is an year old or so. Tell me how it works out.
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Lacrosseian
Fleet Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: October 01, 2004
Posts: 1254
| Posted: 2007-11-29 09:06
Quote:
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On 2007-11-29 04:16, Nuclear Cookie wrote:
What comes to the Intel CPU's, the newer ones use the kind of socket architechture that it's possible to keep upgrading the CPU itself without having to upgrade your whole motherboard, which saves the consumers money, and time.
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This statement is false. Yes, Intel has been using the same socket for its CPUs for a couple years now, but the consumer still has to buy a new motherboard with almost every new CPU generation produced by Intel. The FSB on the CPUs change and the motherboard you were originally using will most likely not be able to support it unless a bios update can provide support. For example, the original Core 2 Duos had 1066 FSB, newer Core 2 Duos use 1333 FSB. The new Penryns have 1600 FSB.
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Leviatan
Cadet
Joined: April 22, 2005
Posts: 186
| Posted: 2007-11-29 09:13
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On 2007-11-29 09:06, Lacro (fleet @0) wrote:
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On 2007-11-29 04:16, Nuclear Cookie wrote:
What comes to the Intel CPU's, the newer ones use the kind of socket architechture that it's possible to keep upgrading the CPU itself without having to upgrade your whole motherboard, which saves the consumers money, and time.
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This statement is false. Yes, Intel has been using the same socket for its CPUs for a couple years now, but the consumer still has to buy a new motherboard with almost every new CPU generation produced by Intel. The FSB on the CPUs change and the motherboard you were originally using will most likely not be able to support it unless a bios update can provide support. For example, the original Core 2 Duos had 1066 FSB, newer Core 2 Duos use 1333 FSB. The new Penryns have 1600 FSB.
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It isnt false, I said it's possible, but at no point did I imply that it works for everybody. If you assume otherwise, might aswell drop the whole argument.
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2694
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2007-11-29 09:58
Quote:
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On 2007-11-29 08:17, Nuclear Cookie wrote:
And Eledore, I skipped the majority of your last post, as it's next to impossible to read and comprehend; you are bringing philosophy and religion into a conversation about a desktop PC, and with insufficient grammar to make sense for all parties. |
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Human interaction with technology and Philosophy about technology.
Its meant to be skipped or read and understood depending on the reader.
As for grammar.
English is my second language, and i only had One year of how to correctly write English.
Can speak almost fluent, but its the letters that kill me.
(Dammed think i need to search for a better spell check program.)Quote:
| On 2007-11-29 09:13, Nuclear Cookie wrote:
.. blabla
On 2007-11-29 09:06, Lacro (fleet @0) wrote:
.. blabla
On 2007-11-29 04:16, Nuclear Cookie wrote:
It isnt false, I said it's possible, but at no point did I imply that it works for everybody. If you assume otherwise, might aswell drop the whole argument. |
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In theorie and even in practice its possible to upgrade the CPU,
problem as Larco said is the motherboard.
Unless the have included in the design possibilities to upgrade.
you will be limited to what the north-bridge and BIOS can support.
However it is possible! i my self done this with a couple of 939 boards.
from a Athlon™ 64 2800+ to a Athlon™ 64 X2 3800+ only required a BIOS update.
But never tried it yet with a Intels 775 motherboard yet, 771 mobo's i know work.
[edit] darn long quotation. removed some
[edit] hugs larco for his post below this one.
[ This Message was edited by: Eledore[NL] on 2007-11-29 10:02 ]
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Lacrosseian
Fleet Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: October 01, 2004
Posts: 1254
| Posted: 2007-11-29 10:00
I was just pointing out a flaw in your original statement, if you are unable to accept then maybe you should just drop it.
Yes, you can use the same motherboard for the same generation of CPUs and upgrade to a fast CPU within that frame. You will also be able to use the same motherboard if the manufacturer updates the BIOs and enables the motherboard to use a newer generation of a CPU.
In the end though, nothing can really be future proofed in a computer. A motherboard will not support a CPU two years down the road. Intel has even announced that their new X38 chipset will not be compatible with the next generation of CPUs after Penryn which has just recently been launched.
Neither CPU companies, AMD or Intel, really offer true future proofing when it comes to the mainboard.
Another point I would like to make is that Eladore brings his own opinion tot his discussion. Do not blame him for not being able to type to your level in English considering it is not his first language. Besides he types better in English than I have seen people who English is their first language.
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Leviatan
Cadet
Joined: April 22, 2005
Posts: 186
| Posted: 2007-11-29 10:26
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On 2007-11-29 10:00, Lacro (fleet @0) wrote:
....
In the end though, nothing can really be future proofed in a computer. A motherboard will not support a CPU two years down the road. Intel has even announced that their new X38 chipset will not be compatible with the next generation of CPUs after Penryn which has just recently been launched.
....
Another point I would like to make is that Eladore brings his own opinion tot his discussion. Do not blame him for not being able to type to your level in English considering it is not his first language. Besides he types better in English than I have seen people who English is their first language.
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I have tried to imply precisely this issue with future proofing and software compability regarding Whiterin's GeForce 6200, and the reason as to why I put it bluntly to you in my last post, is that it's absurd to even assume that all configurations and upgrades are compatible with everybodys computing solutions. I had absolutely no hostile intentions towards you or the argument at hand.
I am not blaming Eledore in that sense either; I pointed out in a rather, pointy, fashion that I deeply dislike it when people deliberately mix computer technology with an insight into philosophies or religions.
I would also like to point out that it's mildly annoying to argue about something if it's impossible for me to understand somebody else in the conversation due to matters obviously not in my grasp.
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