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Idea to allow weapon flexability but avoid ED/PICKET issues |
Uberhund
Admiral
Joined: July 15, 2005
Posts: 21
From: Atlanta Metro Area, GA U.S.A.
|  Posted: 2006-11-18 08:21
Trying to figure a way to allow ship customization while avoiding the unstoppable ICC-ED and UGTO Picket issues.
It looks to me that currently each ship has a fixed power output determined by sublight engines and aux generators and each weapon system has a fixed power consumption requirement.
Assuming the weapons that do the least damage require the least power, is it more a matter of these smaller ships having too much power generation capability? Perhaps removing a generator slot or resticting sublight engine types would be a better fix than restricting the weapon systems that can be mounted. (Or even having a maximum power level assigned to a hull type. (You know, the electrical systems may not be designed for that much power. in such a small ship.) Sort of like planets. You can mount 31 lvl3 defences platforms, but without the power they dont work. (Excess ship power may either be outright ignored, or used to make up the difference when engines are shut off or generators are damaged in battle. )
Along those lines, Another ideas would be to have the ability to turn weapons on/off like you can engines and power. If ship's power output is reduced due to battle damage, you could turn off those systems that are not as usefull at the moment or just turn some off to reduce charging times of the rest.
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Sixkiller
Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 1786
From: Netherlands
| Posted: 2006-11-18 08:55
i dont think we need weapon flexability. It stops torp MD's as well, same for any ship with massive torps that was intended missile.
Maybe some ships now need a bit of design tweaking, but its good for the rest
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[2006] - Codex09
Admiral
Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 187
From: Sydney Australia
| Posted: 2006-11-18 09:21
From memory in the next patch the modding of weapons is built into the ships (eg no need to buy things from a star port) so I guess that should fix the problem.
I think they have already made that decission so I am guessing that it will stay that way, in the long run I suppose it is good for everyone that plays, that along with the balancing of the bombing will just about do it I am thinking.
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BLACKHAWK(ENGLAND)
Cadet
Joined: March 19, 2006
Posts: 268
From: Manchester, England
| Posted: 2006-11-18 09:34
I got an idea eny1 who mod's an ED or a PD for what its not ment to be will be banned, simple but like the easy mirving prez problem ppl will just stress cos they like easy noobish prez as combat is soooooooo hard in this version. Ye i agree but i managed ok so why cant every1 elce. Apart from that the problem will not be solved so easly if it will at all due to its not against the ROC to modd it with all PC's or PSI whatever so dont matter. Enyway GL on this as the ED is the worsed off all ships when exsploted right.
[-BUM-]$BLACKHAWKBUM$(-ENGLAND-)
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Legatus Immolation
Marshal
Joined: December 20, 2004
Posts: 384
| Posted: 2006-11-18 11:25
Quote:
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On 2006-11-18 08:55, Sixkiller wrote:
i dont think we need weapon flexability. It stops torp MD's as well, same for any ship with massive torps that was intended missile.
Maybe some ships now need a bit of design tweaking, but its good for the rest
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im sorry but picket desseys onstoppable. but a torp MD? cmon to hell man u just laugh at that ship, if ur a good pilot u can take down a Torp MD without even him reaching hull. i cant remember who was flying an all torp MD i think it was blueprint. but i was in a BD, just focus more on dodging his stupid lvl 10 AM and Proton torps. u wont get scratched (yes a Dread can dodge too). honestly an all torp MD is incredibly weak i dont kno why people complain about it unless ur a station.
Best modding output for a MD i usually go for. 8 Torpedos 2 Fore arced and 6 Left/right/fore
Fore Torps - Fusion. Side torps Mixture of proton and AM
2 Shocker Missiles.
8 Shredder Missiles.
the Rest IT missiles.
1 Icc Aux Gen for Rear Shielding (Aft)
4 Aux Gens.
Now thats a Killer setup, ur balanced for Long and Close Range, dont use AR missiles because they have a much shorter range than IT.
downside is ur gona suck against luth unless they r within 500gu or they are beaconed.
[ This Message was edited by: Airwolf on 2006-11-18 11:26 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-11-18 11:49
http://www.ravenwarriors.com/upgrades.php
At the moment, that's what I have for modding/upgrade restrictions.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2006-11-18 11:50 ]
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Sixkiller
Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 1786
From: Netherlands
| Posted: 2006-11-18 12:09
Airwolf, blame him for picking AM torps-_-
try against all fusion torps:)
or sabot missiles
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TitaniumFinger
Grand Admiral
Joined: November 11, 2002
Posts: 114
| Posted: 2006-11-18 14:15
torp mds are not nearly as bad as stupid p cannon dessies. the torp md can be hit with return fire and is slow. besides, its always existed the p cannon problem is relatively new.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-11-18 14:49
There will be no "all this" or "all that" ships in 1.484. You're going to have a mixture of weapons - you will be able to customise the weapon type, but not the class.
IE, you can change the type of beam weapon into another beam weapon (Standard CL > Flux Beam / Pulse Laser), but you cannot change the weapon class (Standard CL > Particle Cannon / Etc).
This is being done, not to restrict play, but for your OWN enjoyment. Many players say this will be "boring", except, they fail to see that if we don't do this, we have to make all weapons identicle, do the same damage - which in my opinion, is a lot more "boring", and would do far more damage to the game.
You have my word as a player, and a developer (and you can quote me on this). We will do our best to rid the game of unbalanced ship layouts, and one's that are "unrelealistic" to the game.
The upgrade/mod rules I posted above (click on the link), are aimed to provide you with modding options, yet restrict you to a point where you cannot modify a ship to the point of it being considered "overpowered".
The reason we cannot go with the original posters idea, is that (whilst this may seem unbalanced), UGTO are designed to have the most energy out of the three factions. They have no shields to drain them, and their weapons are realitivly 'ok-ish' when it comes to energy effiecency. This gives them their ability to fire continualy (which you can see on such ships as the Battle Cruiser and Battle Dread (prime examples of the UGTO design)). If we go with your proposal, then UGTO would become extremely overpowered, being able to fit the more damaging weapons (and although I may seem like I souly play UGTO, and want them to become the dominant faction - we want to see this game become a well balanced arena, where everyone can have fun, and where skill really shows - and I think that goes for everyone).
- Jack - I AM THE LAWL
[ This Message was edited by: Judge Dev *Jack* on 2006-11-18 15:18 ]
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Lacrosseian
Fleet Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: October 01, 2004
Posts: 1254
| Posted: 2006-11-18 15:39
Suddenly lightning comes down from the sky and strikes Jack.
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Uberhund
Admiral
Joined: July 15, 2005
Posts: 21
From: Atlanta Metro Area, GA U.S.A.
| Posted: 2006-11-18 16:04
I was just thinking of when I played StarFleet Command. When modding a ship in that game, power was primary. You could put 1 humongus weapon on a a ship, several medium, or lots of small. It all depended on available power. ! huge gun may look cool, but you're dead meat if it is not a kill-shot or it there is more than one target ship. You are forced to balance your ship for fire-power, recharge time, arc, offence and defence. I always liked the flexibility that gave you to mod a ship any way you liked, but it keep the game in balance as well.
The new solution should be fine, at least I wont have to jetison troops to upgrade anymore.
Thanks for concidering the post.
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2006-11-18 16:13
Okay backy, using that site..
all are these including back and forth (ie: IE to PFE, PFE to IE is 2)
UGTO swaps: 18
ICC swaps: 18
K'luth swaps: 7
..............
Wow, K'luth get the shaft. (mainly because they only haev 1 weapon for most slots)
May I also suggest Torpedeo variants?
Example:
Proton Torpedo F-Fast variant, does less damage, moves faster, fires faster
Proton Torpedo S-Slow variant, more damage, moves slow, fires slower
Proton Torpdeo A- Ammo variant, has 1.5x more ammo, smudge less damage, smudge faster reload
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Supertrooper
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1895
From: Maryland, U.S.A
| Posted: 2006-11-18 20:42
We could just...Get rid of Modding..
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Legatus Immolation
Marshal
Joined: December 20, 2004
Posts: 384
| Posted: 2006-11-18 22:45
oh yeh get rid of modding. then take away the enjoyment of a game.
Developing other games in my life is u understand a game needs flavour. Something to keep it kicking even when the game is at its dying days, its Why Games now A days have Levels. lvl 1, lvl 2, lvl 3 and so forth Every game has it, wether its lvl 2 - stage 2 on a FPS. or wether its a RPG and ur character hits lvl 10 and gets new Swords and guns. world of warcraft is a prime example. U go from lvl 1-60 when u hit 60 u cant go any further, but alot of gamers will tel lyou when u hit 60 thats when the game begins u get so much more, New Gear, able to access Dungeons intend for 100%n teamwork. More honour to get battleground gear.
All these count and thats why Modding (as crappy as Palestar has made modding) it still counts alot for the entertainment. it gives u a variety after u die u come back spawn the same ship different Modding.
I can Code games, but im not very good at doing so. i m more of a plot designer. I Say what type of game its gona be, whats it gona hold? how will our customers enjoy this?
so thats what can back me up, i wouldnt mind Apllying for Palestar Dev team but im sure they already have the position filled.
good stuff though.
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Supertrooper
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1895
From: Maryland, U.S.A
| Posted: 2006-11-18 23:50
Actualy, ask anyone who was here before modding. The game was actualy very fun. Combat was alot quicker, and required alot more skill, as well as making it to where certain ships serve their own certain purpose.
Yes, other games have a 'flare' that keeps players to them after they've achieved a certain level, but this isnt those types of games. Darkspaces real flare is it's combat, and taking away modding would actualy increase that flares brightness.
What do we actualy get out of modding? Well, lets make a list.
First off, you get players whining about certain ships having weapons that do not fit their role.
Second, you get ships using weapons that playing as their ment to be played, see the Missle Dread and Escort/Picket destroyers.
Third, you get factions using other factions technology, and players bitch about that too.
Now, lets run down a list of things No Modding could bring..
First Off, ships would have to be played as their intended to be played.
Second, combat would require pilots to use their minds and piloting skills in combat, instead of 'Omg they have strong weapons so I need it to! Button mash!'
Okay, so thats two positives to three negatives. I think the only thing the 'combat' pilots of this version would complain about, would be having limited ammo (For the ICC), which could be fixed by having combat supplies. Having the slowest and least accurate torpedoes (For the K'luth), which could be solved by teaching K'luth how to manualy detonate torpedoes. Or, you could have the UGTO complaining about..well, they are in the middle of things, and should be happy with their own stock ships.
But hey, your the one with the uh.. 'Colorful' imagination, Airwolf.
[ This Message was edited by: Crim on 2006-11-18 23:59 ]
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