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Test increase to CL and Disruptors |
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
|  Posted: 2006-07-27 09:13
You seem to forget that UGTO are forced to duke it out at medium to close range, whereas Kluth are not. Aswell as forgetting that all ships tend to start firing at 250~ gu. Meaning you get the advantage early on, and then our beams start to do more damage as you get closer, by that time, they've cut out and you're cloaking to repair.
CL's have ALWAYS done more damage than disruptors at close range, and it's worked perfectly in every version before this one. The testing we've had is every version before 1.483, when CL's WORKED.
K'luth are NOT ever, ever supposed to do more damage over time. That's a UGTO trait, and it'll probably stay like that. K'luth are designed to do more damage in one or two alpha's than any other faction, beyond that UGTO takes the lead. It's how they're designed
You're also forgetting that Beams do LESS damage at a 'longer range', not 'long range'. Beyond about 200 gu, they do A LOT less damage, and disruptors absolutly murder at that point, whilst we have troubles getting our beams to do any damage to you. All you need to do is fly smart.
Stay in the CL's falloff range, and you'll do fine. Get too close, and you'll feel the pain. It's worked in past versions, perfectly so infact. K'luth already have very high damage with their AM torp direct, and splash damage, not to mention the Psi cannons doing a lot more damage than any other races. But the disruptors aren't weak compaired to that of human beams, they're just designed differently.
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Smartin
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 04, 2005
Posts: 1107
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2006-07-27 09:42
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On 2006-07-27 09:13, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
You seem to forget that UGTO are forced to duke it out at medium to close range, whereas Kluth are not. Aswell as forgetting that all ships tend to start firing at 250~ gu. Meaning you get the advantage early on, and then our beams start to do more damage as you get closer, by that time, they've cut out and you're cloaking to repair.
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I can only hope cloaking time is decreased then. At this point even if we do it outside of 200gu we can't claok fast enoug to not get hit by your lasers.
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CL's have ALWAYS done more damage than disruptors at close range, and it's worked perfectly in every version before this one. The testing we've had is every version before 1.483, when CL's WORKED.
K'luth are NOT ever, ever supposed to do more damage over time. That's a UGTO trait, and it'll probably stay like that. K'luth are designed to do more damage in one or two alpha's than any other faction, beyond that UGTO takes the lead. It's how they're designed
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Just to make sure I went through and re read my reply. I couldn't find where I suggested this.
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You're also forgetting that Beams do LESS damage at a 'longer range', not 'long range'. Beyond about 200 gu, they do A LOT less damage, and disruptors absolutly murder at that point, whilst we have troubles getting our beams to do any damage to you. All you need to do is fly smart.
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I understand teh longer range part. Sorry I didn't word that right, but unless were standing still it will take only 2 secons for you to get into beam range and close in fast. Again goes back to having that delay in cloaking.
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Stay in the CL's falloff range, and you'll do fine. Get too close, and you'll feel the pain. It's worked in past versions, perfectly so infact. K'luth already have very high damage with their AM torp direct, and splash damage, not to mention the Psi cannons doing a lot more damage than any other races. But the disruptors aren't weak compaired to that of human beams, they're just designed differently.
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I beleive you and I am not trying to be difficult or just argue with you for the sake of arguing. I just want make sure that when 484 comes out it will be right. I will do some more testing on all this once Tael updates beta again. I dont want to see one faction towering over another. I guess I wll wait to reply again untill update.
[ This Message was edited by: Smartin on 2006-07-27 09:43 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-07-27 10:28
How many times have people said the cloak is being fixed?
It only takes three seconds of browsing these forums :/.
Oh, and:
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On 2006-07-27 07:35, Smartin wrote:
I think that K'luth need to do more damage though over time. |
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[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2006-07-27 10:29 ]
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2006-07-27 10:31
lets not be getting into a flame war here.
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Ragglock
Marshal
BIOnics Industry Syndicate
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1955
From: Denmark
| Posted: 2006-07-27 12:50
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thats the real deal , they are not ftm , weapon layouts on kluth dont do enugh dammage and if scaling them back futher or make the op side close range weapons more strong , dont exactly help in the right direction.
kluth should have the most dammaging for close range combat.
cant have weak armor and lousy power ratios same time as weak weapons.
battling down any ship class takes between 10 - 20 alpha's as its configured now.
[ This Message was edited by: Ragglock on 2006-07-27 12:50 ]
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2006-07-27 12:59
going back over the history of the weapons, CL's have always been ment to do more damage up close, but have a shorter range than disruptors and have the fall off. So they loose their efficency dramaticly.
Disruptors do constant damage regardless of the range to the target. So you attack just out of range or at the far range of your target, still do max damage and they do minimal if any, then you have time to cloak, spin around and get behind and attack again...
Organic armor also repairs faster than normal armor even though over all its weaker, but the time you cloak and get back into position, a lot of your damage is already healed.
The disruptors were returned to the damage they were doing before I tried tweaking everything 10%
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-07-27 13:10
Explain why Kluth seem to be absolutly dominating beta at the moment then Ragg? Have you even logged in there for a long period of time and testing with other people and other players?
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Pegasus
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 02, 2005
Posts: 434
From: Eleventh galaxy on the right!
| Posted: 2006-07-28 08:18
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On 2006-07-27 13:10, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
Explain why Kluth seem to be absolutly dominating beta at the moment then Ragg? Have you even logged in there for a long period of time and testing with other people and other players?
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Yes he has, he was in a UGTO station with a Battle dread while I was in a mandi , he was hitting me with QST over and over while the battle dread was on my 6 firing at say 250gu, I took very little damage from them both.
I also like to mention that K'luth have probably suffered more than most in the current release version (Ok bar the precious EAD) and having to see what a Kluth dread can do to a UGTO or ICC dread in the beta (before Tael's CL & Ruptor changes), we held our own, it was a refreshing change. For one to try and be fair and testing various of ships which Guyton threw at me, not one was able to put pressure for me to think "I gotta get outta here" until Backslash turned up with the AD and hit with the Ion cannons over and over, for a mandi to "dogfight" two dreads for a number of minutes I felt was impressive, but I also felt that I was a more dominant dread out of the two and felt if Backslash didnt use the Ion Cannon then results may of been different. I also felt the Mandi even against the EAD which I went against alittle later on with Backslash and a few others was far more dominant. I eventually died by Eagleranger in his missile Dread as I was 20% hull, while we had a group of us testing certain aspects of beams and other options.
Backslash sent me a tell asking if I felt the ruptors was a tad bit strong, from my experience that evening with everything that was thrown at me I have to say they probably were. As Tael mentioned earlier this week in the lobby he found a math error in the code which gave the ruptors a slight edge hence the recalulation for the next patch.
All I can suggest is we keep our cool and wait for the next patch which I hope is this weekend and we can in a diplomatic way test the new beam settings in a quiet corner of the beta system and make our reassesments.
The longer dogfights are a welcome and had so much fun testing the new settings, never had so much fun dogfighting Smartin in two frigates the other day in beta. Brings back player skill.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-07-28 10:41
Hopefully the Assault Dreads will get a layout change soon too, along with the cloak so it's a tad easier to test these things.
I think your Mandable being able to solo 3-4 ships was due to a problem with the server going iffy at that point. I didn't seem to be able to do much damage to you at one point, then the next I did. Tael also mentioned Faustus was having problems with some TCP code, which might explain that. Still, early beta, much testing still to be done!
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2006-07-28 10:43 ]
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2006-07-28 13:16
ship layout changes are coming, but not till after the resourcer is fixed, i can not access that portion of the resourcer right now... Also, only the bombs and cl's/disruptors have been tweaked... I am still going to make changes to the other weapons...
Damage will more or less return to static, but size of ship will allow it to take more damage before going off line in battle and allow you to carry more ammo.
That way a destroyer might have 20 rail gun rounds while a dread might carry 40... Thats the line of thought I am using.
The idea is simple, return to the original concept where projectiles do more damage but run out fast and require a supply on hand or for you to pull back while beam ships can sit and slug it out as long as power and armor holds out
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-07-28 14:08
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On 2006-07-28 13:16, Tael wrote:
ship layout changes are coming, but not till after the resourcer is fixed, i can not access that portion of the resourcer right now... Also, only the bombs and cl's/disruptors have been tweaked... I am still going to make changes to the other weapons...
Damage will more or less return to static, but size of ship will allow it to take more damage before going off line in battle and allow you to carry more ammo.
That way a destroyer might have 20 rail gun rounds while a dread might carry 40... Thats the line of thought I am using.
The idea is simple, return to the original concept where projectiles do more damage but run out fast and require a supply on hand or for you to pull back while beam ships can sit and slug it out as long as power and armor holds out
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Best idea yet. Stick damage to static, just give dreads the ability to support more weapons and have more ammo. You could probably overcome the energy issue of having more weapon by keeping the level code on the drives, which means the amount of energy a ship gets goes up as you progress to newer ship hulls.
Keep it simple.
Less chance things will go wrong then, and you can always add more weapons/devices later on to spicen up the variety of things.
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