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ICC WH bombing |
Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
|  Posted: 2005-11-18 16:33
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a) a picture with the "planet is being attacked" message
b) a picture proving the message means the planet the WH is next to
c) a picture showing that there were buildings or population/infantry on the planet being attacked and that they were destroyed after the alleged event (why bother bombing an empty planet?)
d) a very important one: that it actually was ICC who launched the WH, any member of any faction with the possibility to use a WH could have done it (don't you go blaming someone when you have NO proof that he has done it)
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a.) Possible.
b.) Possible.
c. Impossible, as you wont always have every picture of every planets current state.
d.) ICC/UGTO/or Kluth.
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instead your pictures show only a WH near a planet, so do mine.
also you use a evidence the phraze "TRYING to bomb through WH" which does only prove there never even was a bombing.
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Actually, all your picture shows is a WH near a planet, connecting to another UGTO system - for all we know, it could have been made by someone of your faction and simply sent to an enemy system.
But as in Crims picture, there is nothing there to indicate anyone on his faction near enough to initiate the WH.
Indeed, also in your picture, there is no indication at all of enemy presence at the time - since there were also no pictures of enemy ships afterward as well.
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In my eyes this looks only like an attempt to blame the ICC for another thing UGTO does not like.
gimme proof and i'll shush:)
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Translation : "Oh boo hoo UGTO want to play fair, lets all make it look like were innocent."
-Ent
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2005-11-18 18:40
the current populace of the ICC has fallen into a trend of unsportsmanlike behaviour. im ICC, ive been ICC for 3 years, and it disgraces the name for ICC ive been building with a lot of other players.
its very very likely that someone on ICC is doing this, simply because theres a very large chance someone on ICC is disrespecting good conduct of gameplay.
FS, stop taking personal offence to accusations, youre just making yourselves look like a bunch of innane children. the fact that mostly your members are the ones defending this makes it look like youre the ones doing it, and quite frankly my opinion of FS hasnt been very high as of late.
No, theres no absolute proof of bombs hitting the planet, although in the messages shown in crims posts it looks like people are responding to the fact bombs are indeed hitting the planet. so unless a bunch of UGTO actually went through the ridiculous amount of trouble required to create a conspiracy against the ICC (i know theyre too lazy to), i think crims claims are real and founded. in which case you should all shut up and accept the fact that people are WH bombing.
i dont want to find any of "my" ICC doing this, as for the rest of the ICC who are just here for the prestige, may you be cursed by hordes of gaifen packs.
thats all.
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Admiral Larky, The Wolf
Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
Raven Division Command - 1st Division
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Starfist
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 22, 2003
Posts: 574
| Posted: 2005-11-18 18:57
well said lark
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Crim
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 16, 2003
Posts: 1336
| Posted: 2005-11-18 19:01
I think lark just pwned us all..
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2005-11-18 20:02
yeah..
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Durlan Katz
Fleet Admiral
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 150
| Posted: 2005-11-19 05:25
So you say the evidence needed is possible to get, but still i see none. meaning you don't have it?
a picture of a planets state would have been simple enough to get by targeting the planet which then would have shown how many structures there were. even a picture after the "bombing" would have sufficed as it would have shown a planet with no structures or atleast fewer that 32.
a picture of the "planet being atacked" message could have been taken by pressing the f4 key to get a longer chatlist.
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Actually, all your picture shows is a WH near a planet, connecting to another UGTO system - for all we know, it could have been made by someone of your faction and simply sent to an enemy system.
But as in Crims picture, there is nothing there to indicate anyone on his faction near enough to initiate the WH. |
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indeed my picture only shows what you say, but look at the original pics. THEY ARE THE SAME. infact there is is indication in crims pics that there IS someone on his faction near enough, a icon of station nearby, 3 green diamonds right next to him AND 2 green arrows to his left showing nearby friendly contacts. so where exactly was the station?
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| Translation : "Oh boo hoo UGTO want to play fair, lets all make it look like were innocent." |
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nice one...instead of giving proof you try to ridicule me, an act of desperation to say at least.
This post has been turned around to nothing more than a blame om ICC, not least FS, of using every dirty trick in the book but we have yet to see any real proof.
like i said: gimme proof and i'll shush
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The past tempts us, the present confuses us, the future frightens us.
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Durlan Katz
Fleet Admiral
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 150
| Posted: 2005-11-19 06:09
just came to my attention there are a couple odd things in these original pictures
1. UGTO was attacking Tau Ceti, the homeystem of ICC where only one icc player was defending yet you claim there was a bomber(s) with a wh-generationcruiser/station in lalande , don't you think they would be defending too?
2. what would a ship capable of deploying a wh be doing in a system so near ugto controlled space(alpha centauri) where ugto's nearest sy would have been and would therefore be easily tracked by anyone spawning there?
These things mean nothing, they give no proof of anything but they sure made me wonder if it would not be possible for an ugto player to spawn at alpha, go to lalande and deploy his WH from there maby just to set up an alledged Wh bombing attempt to blame icc later for it?
and if the "icc" in lalande would have been just been bombing there, why have the ship with a wh device?
a picture of the "wh bombing" could have been taken by looking at the place the wh was deployed from in f2 mode an zooming in closely, that would have given the silhoutte of the bomber, but no, no one thought of that of the time right?
you just took pictures of the wh, that it was from an enemy held system, that the wh was close to one of your planets and that someone said "trying to bomb through wh"
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The past tempts us, the present confuses us, the future frightens us.
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Fatal Command (CO)
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: November 27, 2002
Posts: 1158
From: over here in New York noticing some ppl are like canoes.....they need to be paddled.
| Posted: 2005-11-19 09:24
FS......be quiet ...let em bitch....and just play the POS version .
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-11-19 11:44
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On 2005-11-19 06:09, Frankieboy wrote:
just came to my attention there are a couple odd things in these original pictures
1. UGTO was attacking Tau Ceti, the homeystem of ICC where only one icc player was defending yet you claim there was a bomber(s) with a wh-generationcruiser/station in lalande , don't you think they would be defending too?
2. what would a ship capable of deploying a wh be doing in a system so near ugto controlled space(alpha centauri) where ugto's nearest sy would have been and would therefore be easily tracked by anyone spawning there?
These things mean nothing, they give no proof of anything but they sure made me wonder if it would not be possible for an ugto player to spawn at alpha, go to lalande and deploy his WH from there maby just to set up an alledged Wh bombing attempt to blame icc later for it?
and if the "icc" in lalande would have been just been bombing there, why have the ship with a wh device?
a picture of the "wh bombing" could have been taken by looking at the place the wh was deployed from in f2 mode an zooming in closely, that would have given the silhoutte of the bomber, but no, no one thought of that of the time right?
you just took pictures of the wh, that it was from an enemy held system, that the wh was close to one of your planets and that someone said "trying to bomb through wh"
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You would've thought after Lark's post they would hush.
1 & 2. These two things both make little sense in what your trying to say. The fact that there was only one ICC defending also shows that there was a substantial fleet of UGTO ships there - if ICC wanted to take the system without suffering losses, they would use a remote tactic wouldent they?
IN addition, there is no evidence indeed if Alpha Centauri even has a Shipyard - that is based purely on assumption.
Now as for that next accusation, you might want to closely look at the pictures again.
1. There are only four possible ships on UGTO at the time that could be in a Command Dreadnought / Station to spawn a wormhole.
2. 2 of the dreadnoughts are located in different systems too far from lalande.
3. 2 of the ships, a Dreandought, and a Station, are already located in Tau Ceti.
4. Now, if they were to create a wormhole from Lalande to Tau Ceti, and go through, the ship would have been instantly destroyed by the planet.
5. The above would be so, because the pictures show the wormhole almost inside the planet.
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As for the rest -
An ICC bombing there probably had a shipyard there. Thus, being able to spawn a WH, switchout for a bomber, and let loose.
Of course no one thought of it at the time. If you weren't looking, UGTO were currently trying to secure the planet - and Crim took hastey pictures indeed.
After all - even in your pictures, you didn't think of doing that.
Honestly - let it go. Even if you still want to scream ICC didnt do it, fine, but the rest of us have found enough substantial proof to think so.
And no in my other post - I wasn't ridiculeing you, I was only stating facts.
Because you are here defending this, you are trying to make ICC look innocent - but given their past record of exploitation (not merely FS), rather than UGTO's, you are indeed simply making yourself look less credible.
However just for the sake of it, ill review your other post.
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indeed my picture only shows what you say, but look at the original pics. THEY ARE THE SAME. infact there is is indication in crims pics that there IS someone on his faction near enough, a icon of station nearby, 3 green diamonds right next to him AND 2 green arrows to his left showing nearby friendly contacts. so where exactly was the station?
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A fact : trying to spawn a wormhole near, or inside a planet causes it to fail.
In order to be able to spawn a wh near a planet, it must be away from that planet or system.
Anyways, this should be laid to rest.
-Ent
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2005-11-19 11:53
blah its over with already...
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Nax
Marshal
Joined: May 12, 2005
Posts: 768
| Posted: 2005-11-19 12:15
I'm just surprised that anybody would bother with this type of bombing.
My personal experience has been you can't rely on the placement of the WH terminus with any kind of reliability...creating (many) WH's in the hope that one will be in the right position doesn't sound like my idea of fun.
And, considering how easy it is to bomb planets...why bother.
Still - to emphasize what Scotty wrote. Play the game the way it was meant to be played. Anything else runs the risk of severe penalties.
Nax
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Crim
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 16, 2003
Posts: 1336
| Posted: 2005-11-19 12:29
Er, actualy..Isnt it an ICC favorite tactic, to go nuke the enemy forces while their away? Or, take into a strategic thing..WH bombing isnt ment to be, but its there..So, you guys would do it from another system, on an enemy strategic place ( sy,mod,depot planets), that the enemy might be crowding around untill their next target, that way you dont have to go in and fight your way to the planet..
Either way, it looks like only ICC are trying to defend this 'tactic', and the rest of the game are happily looking forwards to it's erase from the game.
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Durlan Katz
Fleet Admiral
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 150
| Posted: 2005-11-19 13:09
I'm happy to let this issue rest, but first i would like to point some things out.
in none of my post have i defended this "tactic", i have only asked for proof that is has happened.
i have not being speeking on behalf of the icc, fs or anyone else, all these comments represent my opinions alone
and if you were being accused of something, would you not try to defend yourself?
you speak of formerly hppene "dirty tactics" but do remember that i have not been playing for very long so i have no knowledge of what has happened, nor can these events be used as evidence against issues present or in the future
i personally liked the statement: "only icc is defending this"....you accuse icc, ofcourse icc will go on the defence, would you just be quiet if someone accused you.....wait a minute, i actually made a kind of accusation and instantly ugto was defending. this is normal human behaviour
also it was said that others believe there is enough proof icc did it...nice to know in this community one person has the power to speek for the rest, has there been a election to select a judge that can say "they did it before, so they must have done it again"? you relly should make a clear notification of this so people like me don't go do something silly as defending accusation made on their faction, cause obviously it is useless as the judgement has allready been made.
Then the reason i have been posting, surely you would like to know why i have taken this time to write stuff down?
simple, the game has gotten from bad to worse, no info has been given on it's future, no fixes are being made and everyone still keeps ranting about the flaws. some say the Ed is too powerful and want it gone, some keep saying bombing is too simple/effective..and that WH bombing is possible. the last one has obviously been possible earlier too but why hasn't anything been done about it?.these posts come along every now and then but nothing is done. so i simply don't like the game anymore but have found debating these things fun...as has someone else.....
i could still go on saying random stuff but i believe this topic has outlived it's amusement, you can still post on it how you think icc did it, but i will only keep posting my point of view.
ashort summary of the events: ugto says icc did it, icc says they didn't.. there is no hard evidence it has happened, but ugto says they did it before so they must have done it again (good to say if you are 5 years old)
so plese do keep saying icc did it, i'll just keep stating there is no proof of this
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The past tempts us, the present confuses us, the future frightens us.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-11-19 13:40
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ashort summary of the events: ugto says icc did it, icc says they didn't.. there is no hard evidence it has happened, but ugto says they did it before so they must have done it again (good to say if you are 5 years old)
so plese do keep saying icc did it, i'll just keep stating there is no proof of this
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Correction : UGTO says they did it. Some ICC say they did it. UGTO use past evidence to logically connect that ICC was most likely to do it. UGTO use picture evidence to give a nudge to support this but indeed its not hard evidence.
Unfortunately Frankie, 'hard' evidence, is is most cases impossible - this was a bit like Shipyard abuse before.
Its impossible - in all cases - to give hard undenying proof because of the fact that there are so many factors involved - therefore the only true way to find out is by as much as possible and from eye-witness accounts.
Now, something that hasn't been asked yet. Im going to follow a scientific mode here. If UGTO have no hard evidence to prove that ICC did it, where is the ICC's hard evidence to prove that they didn't?
After all, nothing is false until you prove that, too.
-Ent
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Durlan Katz
Fleet Admiral
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 150
| Posted: 2005-11-19 14:00
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| Now, something that hasn't been asked yet. Im going to follow a scientific mode here. If UGTO have no hard evidence to prove that ICC did it, where is the ICC's hard evidence to prove that they didn't? |
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ah, you see there is an interesting phraze used so often in TV-shows:
"innocent untill proven guilty"
maby you have heard of it? it states that if you are being accused of sometihg the one making the accusation must have the evidence to prove their point.
icc has no need to prove their innocense, ugto has the need to give proof, as an accustion without proof can not be just
you say hard evidence is hard to get, but guess what. it's the same in real life, you can't just expect to find it without putting any effort into it.
now as this accusation is being made against the entire icc faction by ugto faction, eyewitnesses from ugto faction can not be taken into account with only their word to back it up.
nor can the witnesses from icc faction stating it has been done before and so the logical solution must be icc did it again be taken as evidence because like it or not, it does not mean anything. i'll give you an example:
you crash your car into someone elses car and get caught doing it. a year later the same car you crashed into gets crashed into again. would you like the police knocking on your door saying "you did it last yaer so we think you did it again"?
it's fine to take historic events as guidelines to future actions, but proof must be given connecting the past with the present
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The past tempts us, the present confuses us, the future frightens us.
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