| Author |
ECCM ping and stuff |
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
|  Posted: 2005-08-29 17:41
Actualy, your paper thin armour is a result of your fast regenerative rates, and your AHR.
Your cloak is to compensate for your high energy usage weapons.
IE, you fire, you do a lot of damage, you cloak, you go in for another kill.
The AHR and cloak are designed to work together to achieve the perfect hit and run combo, and it is perfect. The real problem with ECCM pinging, is the fact that all ships can equip beacons.
Your all getting mixed up here...
_________________
|
Nim *
Chief Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: September 05, 2004
Posts: 295
| Posted: 2005-08-29 18:09
Quote:
|
On 2005-08-29 15:33, Arcanum {C?} wrote:
Quote:
| Once a kluth cloaks, planet doesnt attack him/her no matter how many damn eccm is on planet...
As I told you earlier to come to ugto and build a planet and I will show you what i mean. |
|
You forget that the beams CAN target the bombs. (Which damages your ship severely, if you are cloud bombing). Or, you could turn away and lose all your bomb cloud, I suppose.
--
So your methodology differs from ECCM pinging. You use another method of discovering the location of a ship which is supposed to be concealed. Given that concealment under normal conditions is supposed to be a feature of the K'luth, any attempts to circumvent this feature other than by use of beacons is questionable in nature.
An analogous situation would be if the K'luth could control the arc bug (which, as an aside, I believe needs fixing) and inflict the bug on UGTO ships at will. This is counter to the spirit of the UGTO, who are meant to have armour protection on all sides of the ship. Clearly, I understand that the arc bug affects all factions, but it serves a good hypothetical example to show how debilitating it can be to have one of the primary features of one's faction, such as cloak, shields, or armour, be effectively nullified by a bug.
[ This Message was edited by: Arcanum {C?} on 2005-08-29 15:35 ]
|
|
With Icc defence you can cover the bombs all the way to planet without getting hit by torps or missiles from planet...and the pulse beams does little damage.
As for my method on beconing newbie ships is not an exploit nor isit unsportsman like... You are pretty much guessing where the enemy is when launching becons.. as all u have is the waypoint location of where the enemy was last seen.
Kluth sure whine a lot as usuall....its mainly wolf now that does it 
Isit that hard to quickly make a fix to the bombing problem dev's? Instead of focusing on the next major version please sort out the bombing problem which is ruining the game and if possible other bugs such as arc and cloak bugs...
[ This Message was edited by: Nim {C?} on 2005-08-29 18:14 ]
_________________
|
Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-08-29 19:08
I am going to likely regret this for the rest of my DS years - but I think its time for the unbiased view here.
First of all, I would like to point that in the spirit of this post, that AirWolf has infact, made only one point which I can fully agree with - ECCM pinging.
It has been since the day I set foot in 1.483, an exploit, and I can justify this quite easily in my book
Quote:
|
d. Exploiting any bug or weakness in the DarkSpace Game System is forbidden.
This includes not only the exploits listed in section 3.3 of this document, Game Exploits, but also anything that clearly provides an advantage for some over others, and is not designed to be that way. Players are required to communicate any bugs or weaknesses they discover to PaleStar via email or any official bug-reporting facilities provided by PaleStar. Distribution and/or publication of information about any bugs or weaknesses in the DarkSpace Game System for the purposes of encouraging exploitation by any other DarkSpace Players and/or Staff is forbidden.
|
|
Now, if I am not clearly mistaken, the ECCM pinging bug was present in 1.483 Beta, and was defined as a bug. It was reported fixed, however, thus is not the case.
Since ECCM pinging nullifies the use of cloaking as its only intention, and only, and only designed to be revealed by beacons, the ECCM pinging can be defined as an exploit - period.
--
To move on from that however, we dive into the realms of the rest of the post.
Now for starters Jack, nav lag works only sometimes and only after jumping - in addition, a cloaked K'luth ship should not be visible with this enough to be able to be targeted and fired upon.
As for ICC PD yes - it is extremely useful against fighters, that in which Nim has a point about.
However, being 10th in building only shows how much you have built, not how much you know about building. I have flown K'luth, and can provide that I have been cloaked and had ECM going and was indeed targeted by the HCLs from the planet to which I was bombing at the time.
Therefore, Arc is correct, if we do get too close, it does null it, and seems to do so commonly with Kluth Dreadnoughts.
Also to say you never ECCM pinged I have my doubts about, since you have exploited nearly every other measure to the fullest extent...
@Forever - You made yourself sound extremely misinformed to the point of borderline stupidity with that yourself. 
A.) Trails do not show up if you are cloaked as Kluth. They may show where you stopped, but they do not show where you moved to.
B.) Nav lag only shows the relative position of the ship, but it does not allow that ship to be targetable cloaked.
C.) I doubt strongly every single Kluth sits still after their done jumping, unlike certain ICC counterparts...
--
Probably the most important thing here is Azreal's post, he made a post which in fact, I agree with.
He stated that bombing should be fixed first - brilliant idea - one pie to you.
He also stated that there is no problem with ECM bombing, and that other factions had the same advantage - he is entirely correct.
I believe I give Az another pie - for stating what I am stating now - ECCM pinging is something I consider an exploit, and it is something that is looked down and frowned upon. Whatever other means you are using to spot Kluth other than beacons, that is frowned upon, and it shows how low you have to stoop to combat another ship.
Exploiting a bug for your own benefit, way past the design of the game, and intentionally doing so, is unsportsmanlike, as Az said, to the fullest extent, and yeah, AirWolf is right too, it is an exploit - until you have been on the recieveing end of it - you have absolutely no idea on how much it nerf's KLuth ability to use their cloak.
So here I side with that - ECCM pinging is an exploit, and it is justifiable in the RoC too, so I see no reason why it is not acted upon.
-Ent
_________________
|
JRE
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 14, 2003
Posts: 570
| Posted: 2005-08-29 19:21
You people whine like mules.
_________________
|
Arcanum {C?}
Cadet
Joined: June 25, 2005
Posts: 222
| Posted: 2005-08-29 19:25
^ - What Enterprise said. 
Quote:
| IE, you fire, you do a lot of damage, you cloak, you go in for another kill.
The AHR and cloak are designed to work together to achieve the perfect hit and run combo, and it is perfect. |
|
Proper K'luth tactics, right?
How can a K'luth dread cloak effectively if it is constantly being ECCM pinged, while not being fast enough to change its position fast enough to avoid manual fire?
[ This Message was edited by: Arcanum {C?} on 2005-08-29 19:31 ]
_________________
The Praetorian Wolves.
We are many. We are one.
|
Pimpalicious Nerd {C?}
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: January 15, 2003
Posts: 885
From: Connecticut, USA
| Posted: 2005-08-29 19:28
I like cheese.
[ This Message was edited by: Bobamelius on 2005-08-29 23:38 ]
_________________
|
GothThug {C?}
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 29, 2005
Posts: 2932
| Posted: 2005-08-29 19:29
JRE, we whine like Mules? wasnt it you who was whining not to long ago about the lag in this game? puh-lease dont hypocrite yourself aight?
_________________
|
*Peanut*
Admiral
Joined: October 24, 2004
Posts: 204
| Posted: 2005-08-29 19:30
Grrrrrr.....
_________________
|
Nim *
Chief Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: September 05, 2004
Posts: 295
| Posted: 2005-08-29 20:30
Quote:
|
On 2005-08-29 19:08, Enterprise wrote:
However, being 10th in building only shows how much you have built, not how much you know about building. I have flown K'luth, and can provide that I have been cloaked and had ECM going and was indeed targeted by the HCLs from the planet to which I was bombing at the time.
Therefore, Arc is correct, if we do get too close, it does null it, and seems to do so commonly with Kluth Dreadnoughts.
|
|
If you are stupid enough to cover the bombs when the planet has ugto/kluth defence then obviously you are gonna get hurt as the planet beams are targeting the bombs and NOT the ship. So If u launch the bombs and move alongside it then the pd will do nothing and the ecm will still be effective. Even if planet has too much sensors the ugto and kluth defence dont have nearly enough PD to kill all the bombs. So in the end you will nuke it and have full hull.
But with icc defence you can go all the way covering it and comeout without a single hull damage.
9th In Building and it does shows that i know more about building than u
Quote:
|
Also to say you never ECCM pinged I have my doubts about, since you have exploited nearly every other measure to the fullest extent...
|
|
Everyother measure? Such as...?
Theres a diffrence between ur opinions and Facts...
[ This Message was edited by: Nim {C?} on 2005-08-29 20:33 ]
_________________
|
Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-08-29 21:39
*Edited - I refused to fight anymore.
-Ent
[ This Message was edited by: Enterprise on 2005-08-30 14:39 ]
_________________
|
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-08-29 21:41
Nelson..
Cloak was meant to mask EVERYTHING this patch. Its meant to be undetectable (minus beacons).
ECCM pinging works by the server adding the signature BEFORE checking if the player has the cloak flag. Therefor, the player spikes in signature, and then the cloak flag updates, and makes it 0 again.
Now, there are TWO things wrong with cloak at present, and ONLY two.
ECCM pinging. Server needs to check for the cloak flag before adding the signature modifier.
Beacon abuse. Beacons can be mounted on EVERY ship now, so litraly every ship can just aim, press t, and the kluth has to jump out. The beacon should have its own slot, and redused to scouts only. If not, then the beacon device needs to work via hull modifiers. The bigger the ship, the longer it takes to reload the beacon.
5 seconds for scouts
20 for dreads
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2005-08-29 22:11 ]
_________________
|
Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2005-08-29 21:52
I quit reading a while ago; I'm guessing giving the increasing post size and the extremely fast growth of this thread, that its making trouble. I also notice Nelson/Pimp Nerd posted, which usually to me seems to be contrary positions to spite people.
So, before it heads for the inevitable lock, a pair of comments:
Jack, I noticed your post at the top when I hit page two. Regarding fast regen rates and the AHR - the AHR doesn't regen armor, as far as I remember. Sure, organic is a bit faster, but I don't know if its that much.
On Azreal's post: in order to fix the kluth, or indeed anything, we'd have to release a patch; thus, any fix wouldn't come til the next patch, by definition. However, I'm just being pedantic, and I know what you mean.
Our MO, though, doesn't - for reasons not entirely sensible, perhaps - usually include "quick fixes" to complained-about problems. So you're right; it won't, most likely, be fixed for a while - until the next patch (per your meaning, not my pedantic one) is most likely correct.
I would not, however, say that this is because it affects Kluth; I can't recall other factions getting other quick-fix patches to strengthen them.
Enjoy your continued ranting, til the topic disappears..
_________________
* [S.W]AdmBito @55321 Sent \"I dunno; the French had a few missteps. But they're on the right track, one headbutt at a time.\"
|
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-08-29 21:53
Organic armour regens faster anyway, but I knew AHR didnt regen armour...
I thought I said hull...
_________________
|
Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2005-08-29 22:00
I made the mistake of reading half of Pimp's post.
Life isn't fair, sure; we can all agree to that. However, this is not life; this is supposed to be a pleasant, and pleasurable, escape from life. Thus, I see no reason why we should not hope for fairness. We're trying to make something better than you might always see in life; this underpins a lot of our actions as staff, and game development in general: an escape into a better place. Thus, don't claim that just because you can get away with something exceedingly lame, that you should be lame. Step up; be a better man, and make gaming here enjoyable for everyone, not just the selfish and pres-whoring.
Secondly, there are pratically weekly complaints here that one faction is horribly disadvantaged. However, the faction posting this seems to change. That is: everyone always seems to be claiming that they're losing. But if someone loses, someone wins, right?
The MV map is constantly shifting. Just because you're losing now doesn't mean you will be next week. Develop a new tactic, make an alliance, find more teammates. Do something, anything, except continue to whine on the forums. For better or worse, its not getting you anywhere.
_________________
* [S.W]AdmBito @55321 Sent \"I dunno; the French had a few missteps. But they're on the right track, one headbutt at a time.\"
|
Arcanum {C?}
Cadet
Joined: June 25, 2005
Posts: 222
| Posted: 2005-08-29 23:32
Quote:
| Life isn't fair, sure; we can all agree to that. However, this is not life; this is supposed to be a pleasant, and pleasurable, escape from life. Thus, I see no reason why we should not hope for fairness. We're trying to make something better than you might always see in life; this underpins a lot of our actions as staff, and game development in general: an escape into a better place. Thus, don't claim that just because you can get away with something exceedingly lame, that you should be lame. Step up; be a better man, and make gaming here enjoyable for everyone, not just the selfish and pres-whoring. |
|
Well said.
And the following comment is not pointed at anyone in particular, but just a general suggestion for all who would listen. Games are meant to be fun. For EVERYONE who plays. Yes, there is winning, and yes, there is losing. Gain, hope for gain, loss and fear of loss in an environment of simulated danger are what make games genuinely fun. If real people died or got hurt in games, they would not be fun, unless you are emotionally sick or disturbed.
And among gamers, there are two types:
Destructive Gamers
These are the types of people who gain the majority of their pleasure from making other people miserable. One might label this a slight (or not so slight) case of sadism. Many gamers follow this principle because they have often become the victims of other destructive gamers. Destructive gamers are near incapable of making fair judgement, often resorting to blatant assertions and demands to promote their self interest to the utter detriment of others. They generally show no regard for enjoyable or balanced gameplay. These people also show a pathological obsession with having things done their way, to suit their desires and interests, otherwise they feel upset and violated.
Destructive gamers are generally associated with frustrated teenagers with diminutive genitalia who feel the constant need to assert their supremacy in a virtual environment, while hiding behind their computers adn firewalls. These are people who seem incapable of understanding that enjoyment can be shared. They seem to take offense and insult whenever someone else other than themselves are even perceived to be having fun, or gaining advantage.
Constructive Gamers
Constructive gamers are the type of person who try to encourage a good gaming environment, and respect all players. They understand that they are playing a game, but will compete in a sportsman-like fashion, but will not throw away their own morals for the sake of virtual self-advancement. Constructive gamers will give their opinions on game balance, and speak truthfully, even if it means promoting his/her opponents' interests, or degrading his own for fair play.
Constructive gamers will take the time of day to genuinely help newcomers, and teach their skills openly to those who would learn. They are confident enough in their own abilities that they don't need to conceal information to achieve an advantage. They are natural winners. These are generally people who are secure about themselves, and are well-respected by all. Constructive gamers end up becoming the very people that Destructive Gamers want to be: 1337, well-respected and always remembered fondly.
If ONLY to avoid being associated with frustrated teenagers with diminutive genitalia...please, aim to be a constructive gamer. It WILL make life so much more pleasant for everyone.
Safe Harbour Statement: Once again, the above comments were directed at no one in particular, and were never meant to imply that anyone *cough* should be thought of, or even imagined as, a frustrated teenager with diminutive genitalia.
Quote:
| Secondly, there are pratically weekly complaints here that one faction is horribly disadvantaged. However, the faction posting this seems to change. That is: everyone always seems to be claiming that they're losing. But if someone loses, someone wins, right?
The MV map is constantly shifting. Just because you're losing now doesn't mean you will be next week. Develop a new tactic, make an alliance, find more teammates. Do something, anything, except continue to whine on the forums. For better or worse, its not getting you anywhere. |
|
Agreed. Whining is useless.
However, pointing out serious game flaws, bugs and exploits to game developers so they can better improve the game is perfectly valid and should be encouraged.
And then it becomes the unfortunate job of the game developers, due to the existence of the two aforementioned types of gamers, to sift through the abundance of selfish promotionism to find the rare, even-minded, well-considered game balance suggestions.
[ This Message was edited by: Arcanum {C?} on 2005-08-29 23:46 ]
_________________
The Praetorian Wolves.
We are many. We are one.
|
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
