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Yet another brillant change brought to you by... |
Specterx
Fleet Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: December 09, 2001
Posts: 547
From: Virginia/California
|  Posted: 2005-08-21 16:23
Agree with all of this. The MV is too big now, yet whole systems can now be laid to waste almost effortlessly, so the systems change hands too quickly. I miss the old 'spikey triangle' configuration.
I've never understood the point nor appeal of shipyards and wormholes, they just seemed like needless and purposeless additions introduced to address complaints that were never made. Perhaps there were some complaints about travel times back in the day with the old, slow JDs that carried less fuel - but the whole concept of frontline systems is now obselete, there's no need to fight through an enemy's main defenses to get to the home system, no strategic fallbacks or rallying of defenders. One side just sends a station force to a random enemy home system and fights until it dies or until they decide to WH back to their own territory.
However, I do have to say that I consider the removal of the FA server to be a good thing. The MV is where the action should be concentrated. Having two main servers does nothing but split DS' already small playerbase.
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Bobamelius
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 2074
From: Ohio
| Posted: 2005-08-21 16:36
Yes! Down with them!
...or something.
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2005-08-21 16:52
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On 2005-08-21 01:28, Enterprise wrote:
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-Ent
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i can agree on the Wormhole issue. but the shipyards arent THAT bad. i mean, its not like u can "insta defend" a planet if theres no shipyards in that system now can u? so what anyone with just half a brain cell would do is to kill off the SY planet(s) in that system first, then they HAVE to either use a WH or travel by the gates to get there. now if u kill the WH ships u only really have one option, IF the systems were far enough away that u had to use the gates. if its a close by system u just manually jump there. or u bring a supply with u. so the "gatecamping" days are over most of the times since Faustus boosted the jump drive.
as i said, i can agree on the WH being unbalanced. but removing the SY means a WHOLE lot of boring travel and even less ppl would acually bother to log in to MV at all. as it is now i just pop in to ICC and see if theres any action, if there isnt i just log out again coz anything but pure war makes me go ZZZzzzzzZZZZZZZ ingame. making me have to travel for 15 minutes just to get to a system we own insted of using the SY thats generally built there (unless taken down) doesent appeal me very much.
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Sixkiller
Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 1786
From: Netherlands
| Posted: 2005-08-27 07:35
i think we should make WHs only be able to be put in a system where there already IS a friend or a friendly system, this would increase the saving people with WH's (wich i like) but on the other hand it would also make it dangerous, as the enemy can use it. Then this stops WH's deep into enemy home systems, but there still is saving people with a WH.
[ This Message was edited by: Sixkiller[*CEC*] on 2005-08-27 07:37 ]
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Lady-GrimSabre
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 25, 2001
Posts: 95
| Posted: 2005-08-27 09:26
I also totally agree that WH and SY's have changed the gameplay. I was about to put the blame on bombs that have enhanced with steroids, but Ent and other posts make a valid point.
But removing them totally seems a bit extreme since so much went into creating them. Everyone seems to have forgotten jumpgate bugs, or the laggingdisconnects caused when a thousand JG layed mines went off at the same time.
I say just put a limit on them. WH shouldnt be able to just pop up anywhere. Have them limited to faction controlled systems. If system is green, its WH accessible. Or make it go one or two systems at a time.
Teamwork would require multiple Stations (get rid of WH cruiser PLEASE!!)
to be used to jump across systems.
SY's when I first read about them, sounded like they could only be built in systems that had major planet clusters. That they would normally take up all the resources just to maintain the SY and would need other clustered planets for support. What happened to that idea? Maybe limiting how many SY's a faction can have, allowing it to be more like outposts. Or maybe just setting a timer on the SY's so that if it was just built, only certain classes of ships can spawn. The longer the SY is up, the chances of bigger bigger ships able to spawn from it. Just my 2 cents worth
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
| Posted: 2005-08-27 10:44
@Lady, I think there are enough FA's and GA's to render your WH cruiser point mute.
I do remember those times with the Discoes and the Gate Camping with mines. I will agree with you that the WH's and SY's still hold value in some ways. I Think we just need a better way to employ them now.
WH's, IMHO, Do alot to destablize the notion of Fronts and secture security. Something which would be good to promote in my mind, for any new player that needs to Learn the MV. Newbie does not Train people for the MV. All the Secenario maps are out dated, and people often are lost on what to do most of the time. (And if I understand things right) someday new players will be trained in the MV and there will be no more Newb. ( Woot )
So either we Limit Access of WH devices or we need to Rethink what it takes to have/make a WH. Which if i had to speculate on what would happen first..Neither.. I have to say that WH's and SY's arent even on the "Things To ReWork List", or if they are they are probably at or near the bottom.
I like you still harbor a warm spot in my heart for these WH's and SY's. But my mind tells and shows me over and over again that these Devices weve been employing are taking alot of the fun outta of DS. By saying that, Im refering to the " Quicker Combat " routes and means that were the basis of makking these devices. Well Quicker doesnt always mean better. And I think thats what weve learned since the implement of SY's and WH's.
I would like to See SY's moved out to space. I dont like seeing stations pop outta moons. But i dont think fixing the Planet/ship sizes will come anytime soon.
WH's, I honestly dont know what to do with them. To cool to throw out and to powerful to keep.
-Charz
[ This Message was edited by: CharAznable on 2005-08-27 10:45 ]
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Diabo|ik
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 16, 2002
Posts: 327
From: Quebec, Canada
| Posted: 2005-08-27 15:11
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On 2005-08-21 02:27, Knight_Arthur {C?} wrote:
ahh..yes..the old days of ds were great indeed. Every word said here, I agree with. I miss the version i started out playing years ago. 1 topic however wasnt mentioned here that i think is important. The Fa server as it was. The old Fa server was instant action. Anywhere from 50-100 people were in there supping,bombing, and fighting. New players could easily learn every aspect of the game in a 2 hour session. It was fun.
I hope they do away with the WH and SY. As for modding of ships...I liked the fact it cost so much to mod. It grew increasingly more expensive for each additional lvl of an item....i like that...now everyone in the mv is flying around with lvl 10 everything....only problem was no real way to earn credits (old school missions would have fixed this).
Back in my day son i had ta fly 50mill gu ..travel through 15 enemy systems and countless enemy combat ships surrounded each gate on the way... i could buy an ame for 5 cents..ahh u youngsters have it easy.....
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loll, I have to agree, we have it way too easy now, and I have to say that the homegate>action travel of the 1480 builds and before is something that I miss dearly ( also, being able to pinpoint an enemy fleet using the player counter in each system by clicking on its star ). You could see the enemy coming, the reinforcements, you could intercept them, lay a trap etc etc... no more... just spawn a station, open a wh to wherever you want and "have fun"... boring...
Also... do I really have to say that the new ship layouts totally suck compared to the oldies?
/me miss 1480's gameplay SO MUCH.
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Mostly Retired.
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Fornax
Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 906
From: Jacksonville, FL
| Posted: 2005-08-27 18:22
I did enjoy the long-jumping and gate battles. And how everyone wanted to complain about gate camping (not spawn gates of course)...I was thinking (agreeing really) that what the system jump gates served an important purpose. They forced enemies to interact in a small area - they created opportunities to fight and otherwise play the game.
In a way, adding WH's encouraged planet camping...since planets were the only thing that enemies needed to go to.
And boy do I remember some of the fleet actions in Scenario.
Nax
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