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Rebalencing Ideas - A Total Conglomeration... |
Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
|  Posted: 2005-08-19 21:20
Most of these are restated, however, they find a feasible home here.
Slots
The first order to cover are slots, my personal view is that they should be restricted yet simply done so. Such can be obtained by the following :
- Drive Slot - Includes all sublight drives.
- Jump Drive Slot - Includes Tachyon/AMJD.
- WH I Slot - WH I.
- WH - II Slot - WH II.
- Special II Slot [Unchangeable] Flux Wave, Cloak, Autorepair, Pulse Wave, Interdictor.
- Special I Slot - ECM, ECCM, Scanner, Beacon.
- Generator Slot - Aux Generator/ Shield generator.
- Torpedo Slot - AM/F/P Torps.
- Cannon Slot - P Cannons/Railguns/Psi Cannons/Guass Cannons/EMP Cannons.
- Missiles - IT/AR/Sredder/Psi Missiles
- Heavy Missiles - Shock/PCM/PSM/Sabot (Sabot would be increase to be more powerful, obviously.)
- Beams - Pulse Beam/Standard CL/HCL/Disruptor/DA.
- Mine - AM/EMP/Nuke Mines.
- Fighter - All Fighters.
- Armor - Standard/Ablative/Reflective/Organic/Stealth (ill explain my idea at the end)
- Shield - Reactive/Active.
If I missed anything...sorry. 
However, I had an idea for a new type of Armor - Stealth Armor.
Such armor would be light, increase manueverability, but would be the thinnest of armor.
The idea behind it, is to decrease cloaking/uncloaking times, increase effectiveness of ECM, and reduce the effectiveness for ECCM, primarily designed for an alternative for Organic Armor for Kluth who want to be a bit more stealthy, or the aspireing UGTO/ICC Destroyer or lower (as larger classes that are human have less effectiveness when using it) who want to sneak.
Perfect for Kluth, or scouting ships of any sort, in other words.
This also brings me to another idea - Armor/Shielding affecting the speed of ships. The heavier the armor you use, the slower your ship will accelerate and the lower its top speed would be. Effectively using a scout without armor allows it to go faster at the expense of defence.
Weapons
I remember Faustus listing that classes would automatically adjust for a specific level, however while a step in the right direction, it will need some extra refinement.
Such refinement would be making certain ships have certain attributes which increase their effectiveness.
For an example, a leveling system would, likely in 1.484 be something like..
- Scout - 1
- Frigate - 2
- Destroyer - 3
- Cruiser - 5
- Dreadnought - 8.
- Station - 10
However, this leaves scouts at a disadvantage for their sensors, so every class would have a line of code of something which if it was a scout, it would +9 Special I Slot Levels (making it level 10 special I slot), or in the case with dreadnoughts, -7 Special I Slot levels, making their sensors far worse than the scouts.
This could also be done for weapons, so ships such as the Torpedo cruiser would have more powerful torpedos than any other in its class, while a Missile Cruiser would have more powerful missiles than any other ship with missiles in its class.
Such attributes would make certain ships noticeably more tactically effective.
Ships
Ships would need a rather extreme revamp; every ship being more honed towards its purpose, making every ship rely more and more on teammates.
Also, a rather interesting debate as of late about how ships should operate, but thats covered next.
However, to make every class effective, I have thought of the following :
The higher you go up in class, the less Special I slots there are, the less light weapons there are, the more heavy weapons there are, the more generators there are, the more armor/shielding there is.
This effectively means, smaller ships are faster, more nimble, quicker with lighter weapons and more sensors, while larger ships are slower, sluggish, and heavier weapons with less sensors.
Roles
A rather interesting debate, however I will say it simplly.
Smaller ships are fast, quick warships. Their strength lies in speed, manueverability and numbers.
Smaller ships are fully capable of damaging Dreadnoughts, however are almost incapable of being able to kill one solo. Destroyers...Frigates..Cruisers...all will require varying degrees of teamwork in order to bring a dreadnought down.
Meaning, no more soloing ships in Frigates.
However, this does not make Dreadnoughts all powerful. They should have the ability to solo anything - on a few select conditions. Because smaller ships than the Dreadnought are so quick, larger weapons on a Dreadnought will have trouble hitting.
Not only this, but the Dreadnought is also slower, with less accelaration. The only way a Dreadnought would be able to *easily* kill a smaller ship, is if it stood still or was going extremely slow.
It can be such charted as..in comparison to dreadnoughts..(the following is based not on even matchings, but on how much firepower vs. time it takes for every class. Basically, it takes 2 cruisers to kill as fast as one dreadnought, 4 Destroyers to kill as fast as one dreadnought, etc.
- 2 Cruiser - 1 Dreadnought.
- 4 Destroyers - 1 Dreadnought
- 6 Frigates - 1 Dreadnought.
- 10 Scouts - 1 Dreadnought.
Remember, its only in comparitive values. 2 Destroyers would be capable of killing a Dreadnought, but only in twice the time it would take a Dreadnought of equal power to do it (which would be quite a while).
Hence, to kill a ship quickly, you'd have to, HAVE to use teamwork.
All for now..will be adding to it...
-Ent
[ This Message was edited by: Enterprise on 2005-08-21 02:15 ]
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Crim
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 16, 2003
Posts: 1336
| Posted: 2005-08-19 23:40
If I said I loved you, it'd be an understatment..
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2005-08-19 23:44
I thought mass (which armor has, like all gadgets), already affected acceleration/turning.
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Griffinhawk
Vice Admiral
Joined: January 20, 2003
Posts: 137
From: Barberton, Ohio
| Posted: 2005-08-20 14:45
i thought that sabots already did good damage?
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Binks
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 469
| Posted: 2005-08-20 21:03
I'm pretty much following your post along making my own comments...
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On 2005-08-19 21:20, Enterprise wrote: LLAMA!
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Makes perfect sense to me...other than the fact you left beams out entirely...is your master plan to make Faust forget beams and thereby make missiles more powerful?
Interesting concept...the one problem would be the fact that all Luth stuff is bio but human stuff is typically metal...maybe some "Humans developed the best equivelent of luth armor from examining captured luth ships, this armor was immediatly stolen when the first test ship came under attack by a K'luth task force. It is unknown whether or not the K'luth plan on using it."
About how much of a cloak/decloak time change are you talking? 1 second per 2 armor changes? Also, how much would it affect ECM and ECCM? Some general ideas would be nice in this area.
One other note, as far as I've seen armor does NOT affect speed...I've mounted uggie scouts with no armor and had same top speed and (as far as I could tell w/out stopwatch) same accel...I think the only mass part is the ship itself...
I like the idea of individual ship levels, but the first example is a bit off...as far as I know you can make (as the system is now) scouts have 10 engines, 10 JDs, 10 sensors, and 1 weapons/armor...perhaps even make engines, sensors, and attack/defend the three catorgories...but that whole torp cruiser getting higher level torps would be awesome...especially if carrier cruisers, and even dreads got higher level fighters...picket ships get higher level beams etc...very nice idea, and one I've never seen before...
I like the idea of cutting light weapons on big ships...BD's w/ part cannons aren't really that great of an idea...however there is one thing you neglect to mention...essentially I see DS teamwork as this...the small ships engage and destroy the other small ships while the dreads go to work on one another, with cruisers helping. The small ships (when piloted well) would be too fast and nimble for dreads to hit but would take a LONG time to kill one. Essentially a dreadnaught would be on par w/ another dreadnaught, but at a disadvantage vs. a lot of small ships...however if one of those small ships strays too close it's dead fast...essentially fleets would be composed of dreads/cruisers who would attack dreads/cruisers and escorts who would attempt to destroy the enemies escorts so they can bring their firepower to bear...something like what I once read as a tactic, you have your navy hit their navy, air force their air force etc. under the assumption that like is better trained to fight like...essentially I see small ships (dessy and under) as mosquitoes...and big ships as guys with fly-swatters...a single mossy vs. a person's only gonna annoy, but get enough and you can draw real blood...and a person's gonna have a hard time hitting a moving mosquito, but if it stands still or is hit it's gonna be hurt BAD...just my personal vision...
already made my arguement about this in the ships area...
-Binks
(Because I feel like copying your sig idea)
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-08-21 02:12
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Makes perfect sense to me...other than the fact you left beams out entirely...is your master plan to make Faust forget beams and thereby make missiles more powerful?
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Whoops...I knew I forgot something. Sorry, beams are going to be edited into my post, that is simply a mistake I forgot to put in.
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About how much of a cloak/decloak time change are you talking? 1 second per 2 armor changes? Also, how much would it affect ECM and ECCM? Some general ideas would be nice in this area.
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Subtle things, stealth armor would aid the use of cloaking, vaguely that every armor placement would decrease the recloak/uncloak timers to enough an extent to be useful.
Essentially, every Stealth armor on a Kluth ship gets the added benefit of -0.1 seconds for uncloak, and 0.2 seconds for recloak.
If a Kluth ship sports full Stealth armor (as in, all armor on the ship is purely stealth), add 0.1 for uncloak, 0.1 for recloak.
However, the total armor strength would still only be 3/4ths as strong as organic armor.
Such examples would be like..say..A dreadnought will all stealth armor would have...
Lets say a Kluth dreadnought has 1.0 uncloak, and a 5.5 recloak.
Full stealth armor, it would have a decloak of 0.1 seconds, and a recloak of around 3.8 seconds.
Of course thats a bit extreme, of course it would have to be tweaked (I want stealth armor to be more effective on smaller ships than larger ones)
ECM gets a boost of -1 signature for every stealth armor mounted, and it negates 1 signature of every ECCM (hence an ECCM that generates 4 sig would only generate 3). Meaning in an ECCM zone, it would reduce your signature to half of what it would be.
Full stealth armor on a ship would of course, give the added bonus of negating half of all ECCM.
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I like the idea of cutting light weapons on big ships...BD's w/ part cannons aren't really that great of an idea...however there is one thing you neglect to mention...essentially I see DS teamwork as this...the small ships engage and destroy the other small ships while the dreads go to work on one another, with cruisers helping.
Actually, thats something thats listed in the roles section.
The small ships (when piloted well) would be too fast and nimble for dreads to hit but would take a LONG time to kill one. Essentially a dreadnaught would be on par w/ another dreadnaught, but at a disadvantage vs. a lot of small ships...however if one of those small ships strays too close it's dead fast.
Also covered in another thread, and in the roles section
..essentially fleets would be composed of dreads/cruisers who would attack dreads/cruisers and escorts who would attempt to destroy the enemies escorts so they can bring their firepower to bear...something like what I once read as a tactic, you have your navy hit their navy, air force their air force etc. under the assumption that like is better trained to fight like...essentially I see small ships (dessy and under) as mosquitoes...and big ships as guys with fly-swatters...a single mossy vs. a person's only gonna annoy, but get enough and you can draw real blood..
Also stated in the roles section and in that other thread
.and a person's gonna have a hard time hitting a moving mosquito, but if it stands still or is hit it's gonna be hurt BAD...just my personal vision...
*points above(
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Essentially, all the you listed there, I fully and wholey agree with.
-Ent
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c0ld
Midshipman
Joined: June 24, 2003
Posts: 342
From: UK
| Posted: 2005-08-21 08:52
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It can be such charted as..in comparison to dreadnoughts..(the following is based not on even matchings, but on how much firepower vs. time it takes for every class. Basically, it takes 2 cruisers to kill as fast as one dreadnought, 4 Destroyers to kill as fast as one dreadnought, etc.
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Is that assuming that all the shots fired are alphas at stand-still or actually how they would be used in real combat? I don't see how a strictly mathematic comparison of firepower can be translated into a combat situaton and remain unchanged.
For instance, if you gave me that cruiser, that could kill a dread in twice as much time another dread could, I'd still have a far better chance of killing said dread than if the two dreads were to duke it out head on. Particularily if all it had were torps and beams, I wouldn't get a scatch on me unless the beams were extremely powerful and they got lucky and close jumped me.
It's just too simple to say 2 assualt cruisers should deal the same damage as 1 assualt dreadnought. They deal (and take) damage in totally different ways.
[ This Message was edited by: c0ldfury on 2005-08-21 09:13 ]
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-08-21 10:06
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Is that assuming that all the shots fired are alphas at stand-still or actually how they would be used in real combat? I don't see how a strictly mathematic comparison of firepower can be translated into a combat situaton and remain unchanged.
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As in, the total firepower each ship has not what it can bring to bear
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For instance, if you gave me that cruiser, that could kill a dread in twice as much time another dread could, I'd still have a far better chance of killing said dread than if the two dreads were to duke it out head on. Particularily if all it had were torps and beams, I wouldn't get a scatch on me unless the beams were extremely powerful and they got lucky and close jumped me.
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If two Dreadnoughts duked it out head-on, it would likely be quick an decisive.
If 2 cruisers engaged a dreadnought, it would take a while woulden't it?
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It's just too simple to say 2 assualt cruisers should deal the same damage as 1 assualt dreadnought. They deal (and take) damage in totally different ways.
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Your absolutely right, so I have decided to theirin include some form of description.
It would take 2 of the most powerful ships in a class, to take on the weakest ship in the next higher class.
Nextly, Dreadnoughts are the only things that can kill another Dreadnought quickly. It would take around 3 or even 4 cruisers to match the speed vs. power. Two cruisers are merely capable of destroying a Dreadnought.
I suppose that should clear it up.
-Ent
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