| Author |
Please review Kluth reload issue |
Maskerade
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 21, 2002
Posts: 638
From: Canada
|  Posted: 2005-07-22 12:34
It seemed that the way Kluth could reload was changed with apparent lack of supporting evidence against it. We have played with both the reloads working while cloaked (but only able to activate uncloaked) and the current version in which the reloads only fucnction while cloak is disengaged. Now I don't know the orginal intent of how it was supposed to be but the way the reloads worked when beta went live was far more balanced then it is now. I have taken a bit to organize my thoughts and I will present these reasons to you as to why I feel this way.
1. Kluth ships have always, as far back I can remember, be able to use reloads while cloaked. This was part of their stealth and offensive gearing.
2. Kluth ships have always been geared to heavy offence and their cloak was centric to the ship layouts.
3. Kluth supply ships have always been potentially invisible. In the past Kluth players were heavily involved in the Electronic Warfare game and coupled with the workers lower signature they were rarely seen. Something they shared with their counterparts to an extent.
4. Being a faction heavily based on offence does not mean you must enter combat without support. Moreover because you are heavily offensive should not mean that must forego your main defensive asset to be functional in a teambased environment.
5. Kluth reloads at start of this patch fitted the new kluth design to a tee, all functions must be initiated uncloaked. No kluth player had a problem with that after they learned about the cloak.
6. All Kluth ships, cloaked or not are vulnerable to anything and everything in the battlefield environment adn rightfully so. This means that if a kluth ships was damaged it must temporarily uncloak to repair itself, thus exposing and advertising it's position to the enemy
7. Supplying while cloaked does not shift the Kluth tactical focus from Offence to Defence, nor does shift the balance in any significant way. Kluth are weapon heavy and defensively weak, having a cloaked supply does not change this in fact with only one type of armour the Kluth remain decisively weak defensively in short term combat. Factoring in the reload times on Kluth beam weapons generally mean that they will take more hits then their counterparts, emphasising the need for support in combat.
8. With restrictions on the loak in place, supplying while cloaked in combat has severe limitations as max sustainable speed by the supply ships is reduced while under cloak. This speed is further reduced through the use of Planetary and shipbourne ECCMs. The more eccm, the slower the speed.
Thus in combat a supplys' ability to stay with combat ships and remain cloaked is limited because by design the kluth combat ships will want to use speed to close in and strike the enemy inflict the highest possible damage. Something the supply cannot substain, nor can it activate the reloads again without exposing itself by lowering the cloak. The relationship between energy usage requirements of the cloak and power output limit any defensive bonus a supply could offer during combat. As most if not all kluth players would agree, it should be that way. These limited abilities while cloaked balances the Kluth supply with it's Human counterparts.
9. Now admittedly with stations supply ships would be able to go slower and substain it's power and in effect make their presence more noticable. However they would still have to expose themselves to initiate repairs, exposing themselves to enemy fire. However to keep a station "invulnerable" many ships would have to be focused on keeping the station alive thereby reducing the number of combat vessels in the area covering the station.
After reading many of the posts that are steadfastly opposed to the way the Kluth reload system was they are quick to rally behind the words "unfair", "unbalanced" and "exploit". I don't see any of these terms fittig the arguement at all, let alone provide any support to their claim.
In the case of the theoretical invulnerable station it is a case of laziness and unwillingness to adapt their tactics. To keep a station alive it would need many support ships and as Kluth are heavily offensive based, their stations are geared (with one exception) towards close combat. To get in close with a station you need support. Now if a team, as this is a teambased game, wants to try and assault with a station they would have to make a choice as to whether to push with station and supplies or bring combat ships to support. If the Kluth going with supplies the Human enemay has many options available to it that would remove teh supplies from the station thus defeating the station.
Again the way I see it is that those against how the Kluth reload was were advocating it because they were unwilling to adapt and use the tools available to them. I won't get into tactics as I don't want to tell people how to play their factions.
That being said I don't think a few vocal people who are unadaptable, unwilling to change or just crave being a one man army should seemingly have such an effect on an entire faction's playability.
I don't know if the Kluth reload system in which you needed to be unclaoked to activate but could continue to function while cloaked was by design or by accident but it worked. Moreover it was balanced compared to what the Kluth have now. For a faction that everyone loves to point out is supposed to be offensive and aggressive in nature, part of our current ruleset forces us out of that role and into a role we are not designed to operate in.
I've seen no evidence of tests to the contrary, only opinions. I would also like to point forward that tests in private server do nothing more than provide conjecture as they do not represent the full spectrum of events that happen of a live server.
Please review this issue
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- Maskerade
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tagar
Cadet
Joined: July 02, 2004
Posts: 64
| Posted: 2005-07-22 19:06
very well said m8, your much better spoken than i/ I just hope somone listens...
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Maskerade
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 21, 2002
Posts: 638
From: Canada
| Posted: 2005-07-23 21:04
me too 
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- Maskerade
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Arcanum {C?}
Cadet
Joined: June 25, 2005
Posts: 222
| Posted: 2005-08-18 14:51
Bump.
I fully support Maskerade's arguments. This is definitely a very distinct problem that has been causing K'luth players below the level of 2nd Rear Admiral immeasurable difficulty to level up.
I would point out that there is a marked LACK of supply ships in K'luth battles. Why is this occuring? Because based on the skill level of those people who are meant to fly supply ships (lower level players), they cannot possibly gain any prestige by doing so.
Granted, perhaps if Sheng were to fly a supply ship, he could make it work. But that is not because K'luth supply ships are balanced, but rather because the pilot is Sheng.
I readily agree that the arguments proffered by certain opponents to cloaked repair may in fact be true. That is to say, if you take a Grand Admiral and stick him in a supply vessel, if he is worth his salt, he will make it happen. But not everyone in the game is a Grand Admiral with 3 years of flying experience. And therein lies the flaw.
A Grand Admiral in a human supply ship should never die too. But this has no bearing on whether human supply ships are imbalanced or not.
And to address the hypothetical concern that you could have 10 supply ships repairing one "invincible" Mandible, I would say this: 10 human combat ships can easily destroy one Mandible supplied by 10 Ultimate Workers. Furthermore, if you as a pilot realize that your opponent is supplied by 10 supply ships, and you do not preemptively destroy the supply ships, you are not a competent pilot. 3 fully modded core weapons from a battle station can destroy all the supplies surrounding a Mandible (simply by targeting the Mandible or its proximity).
And if the argument is made that 1 or 2 human ships should be able to negate a Mandible being repaired by 10 supply ships, then perhaps it is the pilot of the human ship(s) who must re-evaluate his(their) concept of game balance.
[ This Message was edited by: Arcanum {C?} on 2005-08-18 14:55 ]
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shadey
Cadet
Joined: November 13, 2004
Posts: 40
| Posted: 2005-08-19 01:04
very well put, fyi try gaining pres on icc, its pretty easy
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