| Author |
Kluth either need Buffed or removed |
Beast
Cadet
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: May 27, 2002
Posts: 345
From: Wouldnt you like to know
|  Posted: 2005-07-01 05:20
The title says it all Kluth are weak there weopns couldnt get through a wet paper Bag. 3 Full Alphas from a fully upgraded/Modded level 10 Siphon did 27% shield damage to a Combat dread. In the same amount of time my armour was completly shot and down to 96% hull.
Before that a BD was more or less playing with a Kluth Station Even with Multiple alphas from the Station the BD was still fully Combat capible. with medium armour damage.
Most of the time the BD was repairing it,s armour faster then the Station could damage it. While the Kluth Station was starting to take decent Hull Damage.
I wasnt the only one to witness this Scotty+ mith and a few others as well can verify this what I call a load of crock.
I dont know what you used for tests Backslash but either you used UGTO stock vs Kluth Upgrade or you Flat out lied. Personally I think you flat out lied.
P.S. Every dedicated Kluth Player proudly looks forward to being midshipman If the current beta stands as is.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-07-01 05:37
You havnt played then, again, I was able to kill multiple ships without dying last night. The Mandable is a ship not to be triffled with, as is the Siphon, the Scale is a beast of a ship if used correctly, the Claw and Drainer are also very good ships if used correctly.
Aswell as the fact that kluth have possibly the best bomber in the game now...If the Ganglia stays as it is, it can jump to a planet, lay its bio's, turn on its 4 ECM, and then cloak. This stops it from it and the bombs from being shot untill delivery. I managed to kill off 24 inf doing one run in the Ganglia...
I cant see how people can complain, the ships weaponry is vastly superior to their human counter-parts. You shouldnt be using techniques which allow you to be shot at for long periods of time, use the fact that their armour repairs at a much slower rate, and their hull not atall, to your advantage.
I was able to stay at 5% for 6 minutes just by rotating my ship and using the armour smartly against Meko. My other plates would recharge at such a rate that by the time the one that was under fire was at 0%, I just turned my ship, and then when he stopped firing his EMP, I turned and fired the ruptors from the front.
Kluth are far from nerfed, and they are far from needing a buff...
The only thing I would like is the engine noise removed when cloaked, as it gives off a slight chance of detection if the person is smart enough to listen.
Also, I dont know what tests you were doing, but I managed to maul 25% of shielding and 42% of a CD in a Siphon yesterday, aswell as the fact that the BD cant repair its armor faster than its damaged, theres no way.
Also bear in mind Stations arnt kill all ships, they arnt the uber-type dreadnoughts. They are able to protect themselves against small threads, but combat class ships require a ship of equal value to take it down. Also bear in mind you could of cloaked and moved behind the planet.
Keep in mind at all times, that your not meant to be able to duke it out with human ships. You HAVE to use the cloak to slink in and out to harm the ship. Your armour is not advanced enough to take on that sort of fire. What you describe suggests to me that you were not using hit and run tactics, and you were trying to duke it out. 2 alpha's is about all you can get before you have to cloak to take another run on the enemy ship, the fact that you waiting for a 3rd is just too long, and gives the enemy a chance to face you and bear all weapons, unless you attack from behind. You also sat their in a station when the BD was attacking you...Thats trying to duke it, cloak and hide, its what Kluth are designed to do.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2005-07-01 05:44 ]
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Beast
Cadet
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: May 27, 2002
Posts: 345
From: Wouldnt you like to know
| Posted: 2005-07-01 05:52
Again Backslash your Full of it I watched Mith watched it Scotty also watched it .
Fact is Fact and the Fact is Kluth are weak Ugto got Huber possibly more Huber then what Kluth ever was. I know Kluth tactics .
Hit and run yes Hit and die well we all know thats what you want.
And for your info I was using Hit and run. Once again I know Kluth tactics .
DONT tell me I dont know what I,m doing.
[ This Message was edited by: Beast on 2005-07-01 05:55 ]
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Trekkie_zero
Cadet
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 146
From: A state with too many A\'s....
| Posted: 2005-07-01 06:02
Yeah the station and BD were duking it out we were dueling... He was using lvl 10 reflectives on a BD... Of course the tactic for hit and run work for smaller ships but for stations its near impossible the only way for a hit and run for them would be to stage a trap...
So kluth stations need to be able to duke it out which means they need one more layer of armor like 1 more armor thats full arc at the inner circle boost their armor up just a bit especially for the Nest which relys completely on close up attacks.
Then there is the scale thing Im not sure he was fully upgraded to the max on everything after looking at him Im pretty sure he wasnt and yeah the siphon does have problems but it is mostly attributed to the fact ppl dont know the hit and run tactic yet...
Reflective needs something, it doesnt need a debuff in strength if your going to lower its repair rate make sure to boost its reslience because the Reflective armor isnt strong enough especially for the ICC they cant take it... I think that should have been done in the first place when reflective armor was first lowered in repair rate that its resilience to energy weapons be boosted up just a bit...
Just my thoughts on some things... about kluth and counter kluth things...
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Beast
Cadet
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: May 27, 2002
Posts: 345
From: Wouldnt you like to know
| Posted: 2005-07-01 06:08
Both Ships was fully Modded I spent some time yesterday modding it.
I was Using hit a run I came Decloaked fired a few times then ran. Even with the BD damaged I Hardly made scratch.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-07-01 06:15
Stations are support class ships, they shouldnt be duking it. They should be giving support to smaller ships in battle. Hence, this is kinda null point...Why would you take a station to protecta planet from a Dreadnought/assault a planet with a Dreadnought there...There is no reason too...
Also bear in mind Reflective armor does not repair atall, you need to go to a depot to get it repaired. Use projectiles if a ship is using Reflective armor, also try to remember that most all out BD configs have NO PD what-so-ever, so projectiles would be best. You mod your ship however you want, but the default config is there so that you can deal with this sort of thing.
Also apparently beast you were using a Scale. Thats cruiser v dread. You shouldnt be doing that much damage to him anyway, you need this kind of math to take on a dread...
2 Cruisers > Dread
4 Destroyers > Dread
etc..
etc...
And again, god knows how many times I have to say this. Im not just a UGTO pilot, I play the game as Kluth AND ICC, just not on this account. Yet im fine with how kluth work, appart from the drive noise thing.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2005-07-01 06:22 ]
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2005-07-01 06:26
about beasts station vs Battle dread stuff... i mull over that later.
however this is fact.
me and backslash, stock scale (lvl'd up) vs stock battle cruiser (lvl'd up).
he managed to damage my armor and hit my hull before i managed to hit his hull... how? he came from behind. he then cloaked repositioned and repeated. he got me down to 75% hull before i managed to learn to use my ears. i looked for the sparkles (aided by audio) and would manually target. scoring marginal hits.
then he got bored and i managed to hull him good so he was smoking. then it was just manual aim, shoot, manual aim shoot. he knew this so he did a last stand with me and used his armor so smartly that once i realized what was going on and why my systems were being damaged, i just pounced with my flux.
btw that do anything jack?
now beast, and azreal, i know you vets are not happy with luth, and i dont know why yet for i havnt been on for very long. however they devs may have seemed like thier favoring UGTO, but i gotta wonder this:
are they just treading carefully so that thier sure they make the right moves? i think so. now i plan on trying luth in release and stuff, so its not like i want them handicapped. i mean im trying to think up ways to make the NRG supply feasable...
what im trying to say is this, relearn cloak.
with backslashed constant pop in alpha, pop out, sometimes id target him and alpha..... but hed already be invisible! it Really works....
Quote:
| Personally I think you flat out lied |
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if he lied then so did i... but i dont do that.
and in finaly. keep the luthy drive noise on. i would been in even more crap if i hadnt used that tactic.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-07-01 06:29
Flux did work, but AHR repaired the systems rather quickly, was only down for 2-3 seconds.
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2005-07-01 06:35
after your ruptors killed my systems (mainly my cannons and beams) they were back up in about 10 seconds
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-07-01 06:40
Ruptors do EM damage 0.o?
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2005-07-01 06:44
yea every time you had all your ruptors on my weak armor they stung the inside of my ship 
edit... did u have PSI cannons on? do they do damage? they coulda been hidden from my view under your lazers.....
[ This Message was edited by: Meko on 2005-07-01 06:45 ]
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Beast
Cadet
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: May 27, 2002
Posts: 345
From: Wouldnt you like to know
| Posted: 2005-07-01 06:51
Pfft it was more like the Station and me against that BD. Secondly the station should have Owned that BD when it got into firing range of the Disruptors but it didnt. Instead the Station got pwned along with me.
But thats ok we got our Huber Cloak to hide and repair 90% of the time.
Your Both full of it just about everyone else I talk to says Kluth wont make it in the Next release.
Personally I feel you Both are feeding the Dev and everyone Else False info from Beta. To gain a personal Advantage when released.
But I wont be resubbing Unles I personally see some sort of Improvment to Kluth.
I was planning on giving up Planet side For the New release Not now Not never unless somthing is done.
[ This Message was edited by: Beast on 2005-07-01 06:55 ]
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2005-07-01 06:55
now please try that same test with only marginal upgrades (like you'd actually see in the MV after release).
And also, Meko, all it takes is 1 beacon. And as has been pounded into me since walking into beta, the new system is one that is highly dependant on teamwork. So unless there are other ships that are there to help with these cloaking/uncloaking ships, then it is not a complete test.
I realise it's fun to walk around in full upgraded ships. But that is not being realistic to what the MV will produce, and it is FLAWING the results, IMHO.
No flames from me, just observations.
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Drafell
Grand Admiral
Mythica
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 2449
From: United Kingdom
| Posted: 2005-07-01 08:29
Ok a few points...
Reflective and standard DO self repair. Ablative doesn't.
If that BD was using Reflective then I am really not suprised that your station couldn't touch it. You shouldn't be trying to make a station go toe to toe with a ship that is far superior in terms of maneuverability unless you are specifically modded to do so.
I am guessing that you were mainly relying on beams. For a station this is probably the worst mistake you can make, as very few people are really stupid enough to get within beam range.
I am thinking a more effective build for a K'luth station would be to go for ranged weapons rather than trying to make it a beam boat. This would give you an advatage of being able to damage them when out of beam range as well as doing more damage VS the reflective armor. It is extremly weak against projectiles and missiles.
Additionally, a lone station can take punishment, but they are supposed to have support to take out the more mobile targets.
Rather than just saying that K'luth are crap, try actually analyzing just why you couldn't hurt them and then coming up solutions to the problem, rather than just giving up and complaining.
K'luth are an extremely powerful faction and many people are going to have to adjust thier thinking as to how to play them. Yet the same is true for all the factions.
There is just no need for 'buffing' an already awesome faction.
[ This Message was edited by: Drafell on 2005-07-01 08:30 ]
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2005-07-01 08:55
Again, I am pleading with people to attempt to mod ships as if they were in the MV, W/O all the beta credits at their disposal. Trading blows in all powered up ships is something that will not be seen in release for a good while, as nobody will be able to afford it.
Maybe the answer to this is just give everyone the credits they currently have in release, as that would show what the limitations will be, and rightfully affect how you are modding out to test.
I just flat do not think that the feedback from beta testing as it is being currently done is accurate. There is NO thought given to how this version will HAVE to be played once released.
Az
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