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Full Proposal - Rough Draft |
Crim
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 16, 2003
Posts: 1336
|  Posted: 2005-06-08 17:33
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On 2005-06-08 16:57, c0ldfury wrote:
Ok, assume I came to the game, wanting to get a dreadnought, as my rank deserved. I find that they are 10 players on my side with dreadnoughts and 6 enemys with dreadnoughts. There aren't enough resourses for me to get one, so I am forced to get a cruiser.
What benefit will that cruiser be to the team?
Now, I expect you'll think "get a supply". So that leaves dreads and supply ships.
Basically your removing the need for a mixed fleet.
Also, the reduced exp thing doesn't work in reality. A kill's a kill, basic human nature.
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o.O You can have a dread if you want..Im takin the cruiser.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-06-08 17:43
Cold is right, people did that in scenario servers all the time.
What he doesnt seem to remember, is how when someone got a Dreadnought, they utterly screwed themselves over.
Take a look at it this way...
Say there are PLENTY of resources, just not enough for a dreadnought. Theres a massive battle going on elsewhere, and the situation doesnt call for a dreadnought, because everyone there is in a dessie/cruiser. Which is most likely the case.
Why would that be the case? Because people may want the most powerful ships, however, those with experience (and those with the rank) know what will take them the farthest in those situations : so they get the smaller ships.
Should a newb decide to pull a dreadnought, he invariably screws himself over. And when he loses a good 700 prestige from it, he realizes that mistake, and sticks to smaller ships...
I think thats the reason most people wont fly a dreadnought, because of the loss and the potential consequences. Dreadnoughts should be a responsibility, and thus, most people dont want to handle that when their playing.
It just has to be remembered : People with the rank to fly Dreadnoughts, especially the powerful ones (AD/FA ranked) have probably played long enough to know what their doing, and will likely realize that pulling a Dread is not the wisest of choices. Only newbs, who find out the hard way, pull out Dreadnoughts in the wrong situations.
-Ent
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c0ld
Midshipman
Joined: June 24, 2003
Posts: 342
From: UK
| Posted: 2005-06-08 17:59
Good points Ent. But as I said a in another thread, who decides who gets the resourses? You see, there will be those newbs, who jump strait into battle with a dread. And since the resourse pool is shared, it ruins the game for everyone. It used to get so bad in scen, at least at the beginning, that just one FA taking out a station too soon was enough to set everyone back 20 mins. In that time, the FA would sit AFK until 10 mins before the map closed when they jumped to an enemy planet and farmed pres, knowing they wouldn't get killed in the time remaining.
As it happens, I agree that dreads should be powerful. But I don't like the fact they can effectively target smaller vessels. In every well balanced space game, from freespace 2 to homeworld, dreads are cap-ship killers, but they are useless against smaller craft. Now in DS, were every ship is player controlled, you can't get the overwelming numbers of small ships that other games rely upon, so you'd have to make hvy weaponary less effective again smaller ships, imo.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-06-08 18:06
I'd like to see Dreadnoughts be able to hold out against smaller ships, as in be able to defend against them. However, I dont really go for the idea of them being able to easily butcher them, only if their dumb enough to get too close...
-Ent
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2005-06-08 18:08
c0ldfury, thats also exactly why Darkspace cant mimic those games. They are RTSes where you command entire fleets, not individual ships. Thats why your argument is inherantly flawed.
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Good points Ent. But as I said a in another thread, who decides who gets the resourses?
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Trick the newbs. not to mention, this is METAVERSE, you cant just sit AFK and wait 5 hours. You would be waiting a long time since by the time you come back dread resources would probably already be used up. By players who actually work hard.
Not to mention, you get a chance eventually. Not to mention a lot of people would be turned off to the fact Dreads are high-profile (get shot at first) and high-res loss. Its not worth it for many.
To close the chapter, everybody would be turned off if it was pre-determined who got what. I wouldnt want to mine resources for my team if I knew that somebody else was going to get it anyway and that I had no say in it. With my idea you DO have a say, although you dont have the only say.
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I'd like to see Dreadnoughts be able to hold out against smaller ships, as in be able to defend against them. However, I dont really go for the idea of them being able to easily butcher them, only if their dumb enough to get too close...
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Destroyer manuverability would probably hold out if it stayed at a high range, and wasnt fighting a ship laden with high-tracking missiles. Usually they only should get butchered if they are dumb enough to try to take on the Dreadnought without huge amounts of help.
[ This Message was edited by: RedXIII on 2005-06-08 18:10 ]
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c0ld
Midshipman
Joined: June 24, 2003
Posts: 342
From: UK
| Posted: 2005-06-08 18:18
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I wouldnt want to mine resources for my team if I knew that somebody else was going to get it anyway and that I had no say in it. With my idea you DO have a say, although you dont have the only say.
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That sounds very democratic, but I don't see it results from your original suggestions. How do people have a say?
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2005-06-08 18:30
Simple, you can either talk it over with your faction (Before getting resources), and hope to be the quickest in getting a Dread. Crude but it works. It prevents majority tyranny and minority oppression.
Theres always ways you can outsmart dreadwhoring newbies. Im not going to list them though.
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2005-06-08 20:09
Hulls values are not changing... We are looking at giving a "small" ammount of ships damage pres to armor again.
The armor is what protects the super structure. Once its gone, the superstructure collapses quickly.
HULL is NOT another armor...
So this is not changing...
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2005-06-08 20:13
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Proposal Seven - VIVA LA EVENT TEAM!
With the advent of MIR/Legion and Pirates, I beleive that the event team needs to be restructured. Rather than these forces only appearing when, as a player had told me, 'when the admins get an itch', I wish there to be an event team that can stage constant Metaverse storyline events for everybody. These storyline events are planned in advanced by the event team for this purpose. Event Staff members will not necessarily be moderators or administrators, but they will have the permissions to use Script commands and use Pirates and MIR/Legion ships themselves as NPCs. Storyline writers will also be included. While Event Staff members can also be Moderators and Admins, generally those who are not, while having these powers, are not capible of using some standard Administrative/Moderator powers including punishment commands and profile editing commands.
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Again your assumptions are flawed... Its always been planned that the majority of these ships will be AI controlled and event driven, there will be times that certain event staff will be operating them to further story lines.
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2005-06-08 20:27
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Again your assumptions are flawed... Its always been planned that the majority of these ships will be AI controlled and event driven, there will be times that certain event staff will be operating them to further story lines.
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News to me
[ This Message was edited by: RedXIII on 2005-06-08 20:27 ]
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Ghostly Specter of an Ancient Past.
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Trekkie_zero
Cadet
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 146
From: A state with too many A\'s....
| Posted: 2005-06-08 20:37
Cold have you even played beta that much, you fire at a scout or a frigate and a dessie you miss more then 90% of the time unless the pilot decides to come at you head on... the bigger the guns the less accurate they are vs smaller ships, the only thing that can easily hit scouts from a dread is lvl 0-3 and to tell you the truth dreads are about as much of a threat to a good scout pilot as the threat of the scout puncturing a dreads armor... The hits from a dread do count for a lot more then they used to but other then that they miss 90% of the time at least vs scouts even with the lower grade weapons. Applies to frigates and dessies too they can dodge a lot easier then a dread can and dodge the weapons of a dread a lot more effectively...
Other then that I like reds ideas although I think the game could use more of an economics thing for getting ships then what it has now but that can wait till the planet patch.
[ This Message was edited by: Trekkie_zero{Recruiting} on 2005-06-08 20:38 ]
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_x$witchBladex_ [1.480 Fanboy]
Grand Admiral
Joined: February 26, 2003
Posts: 849
From: Upstate New York
| Posted: 2005-06-08 21:09
Looking good Red. I really do agree on the including of noobs. They need more actual experience, although I believe that scenarios should only be limited to them so they can learn the basics.
Well thought out.
~Switch
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Beast
Cadet
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: May 27, 2002
Posts: 345
From: Wouldnt you like to know
| Posted: 2005-06-08 21:25
Quick question Tael where are our platforms?? I want our platforms!!!!!!!
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Drafell
Grand Admiral
Mythica
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 2449
From: United Kingdom
| Posted: 2005-06-08 22:25
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On 2005-06-08 20:27, RedXIII wrote:
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Again your assumptions are flawed... Its always been planned that the majority of these ships will be AI controlled and event driven, there will be times that certain event staff will be operating them to further story lines.
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News to me
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You really expect there to be no suprises?
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It's gone now, no longer here...Yet still I see, and still I fear.rnrn
rnrn
DarkSpace Developer - Retired
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2005-06-08 23:09
hehe, the staff knew about it, its in the staff forum. The player community isnt filled in on ALL aspects.
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