| Author |
Full Proposal - Rough Draft |
Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
|  Posted: 2005-06-08 14:27
This proposal is a general list of changes, some cannot work without the others, however, they are left generic as to allow flexibility in numbers to achieve balance.
NOTE: Hull/armor HP scaling
2 Scouts = 1 Frigate
3 Frigates = 1 Destroyer
4 Destroyers = 1 Cruiser
5 Cruisers = 1 Dreadnought
First Proposal - Dreadnoughts
Dreadnoughts are big, vicious, expensive, and downright mean. They are the flagships and battleships of the navy. There are two types of dreadnoughts, Specialized and General-purpose. Specialized dreadnoughts are highly specilized dreadnoughts designed to dominate in exactly what they do. Generally they do have a wide swath of weaknesses and are very weak if not in their catagory. They generally require escourts and can be seen in numbers. Most Specialist dreads can be available at Vice Admiral, some, especially very valuable dreadnoughts, are at Admiral. General-purpose Dreads are divided into Tier 1 and Tier 2 ships. Tier 1 ships are general-purpose combat, and Tier 2 are Command-level ships. Tier 2 ships are much stronger than Tier 1 but Tier 1 is available at Admiral rank, Tier 2 available at Fleet Admiral rank. Tier 2 General-purpose Dreadnoughts are also the Command ships of the fleet.
In terms of ship balance, how good Dreads are against ships is completely dependant on ships. A Torpedo Cruiser will butcher a Missile Dread up close 1 on 1. A Command-level Dread will take one hell of a fleet to take down.
Pros:
Domination of Battlefield
Versatility
Extremely tough to kill
Cons:
Construction Costs
Construction Time (When/IF implimented)
Modding Costs
Losing Costs (Pres loss)
High-Profile
NOTE: Other Dreadnoughts may be added according to purpose.
Tier 1 Specialized ships (Vice Admiral):
Missile Dreadnought (ICC)
Carrier Dreadnought (UGTO)
Tier 2 Specialized ships (ADmiral):
Siphon Dreadnought (Kluth)
Assault Dreadnought (ICC)
Elite Assualt Dreadnought (UGTO)
Bomber Dreadnought (ICC)
Agincourt Dreadnought (UGTO)
NOTE: These will be the only Tier 1 Generalpurpose Dreadnoughts
Tier 1 General-purpose ships (Admiral):
Combat Dreadnought (ICC)
Battle Dreadnought (UGTO)
Mandible Dreadnought (K'luth)
NOTE: These will be the only Tier 2 Generalpurpose Dreadnoughts
Tier 2 General-purpose ships (Fleet Admiral) NOTE: COMMAND LEVEL:
Command Dreadnought (UGTO)
Command Carrier (ICC)
Ganglia Dreadnought (K'luth)
Second Proposal - Resourcing
To prevent extreme proliferation of Dreadnoughts, a list of minor Darkspace planetary and resourcing changes will be suggested in order to cut down on the number of Dreadnoughts while providing the least amount of work into the actual programming of these changes. They will be listed below.
1: Limit Resource Collection Rates.
Simply enough, resources are collected too fast. Slowing down the resource collection rates significantly will stop the obscene resource growth without having to put a resource limitation in the game. In Addition, colony bases should be completely unable to mine rare materials.
2: Redo the Metaverse.
The Metaverse simply has obscene amounts of rare resources. Given, Homesystems should be garunteed at least one of each rare resource. There should not be that many rare resources in the first place. This would also make rare-resource planets worth fighting over. Rather than each planet being generally the same.
3: Boost the Cost of ships.
Ships should be expensive. Especially Dreadnoughts. Cruisers should also cost a pretty penny. Costs will accurately reflect ship capability (Which will be exponental). Also, this will allow resource rates to be kept at a consistant enough rate for buildings to be built with ease.
4: Allow Resource Micromanagement.
This is not really a limiting factor, but, players should have far more control what each planet imports and exports to. This is so players can create supply lines to the Shipyard-worlds without having backwater planets stock up extremely valuable resources that they do not even need.
Third Proposal - EXP Scaling
NOTE: Invalid, already in game.
It is often the concern of Developers that newbies should stand a chance. Rather than make Dreadnoughts suck against smaller ships, do the sensible and realistic choice, include EXP Scaling. Basically, Beating up a smaller ship with a big ship nets you less EXP. This will also prevent farming Newbies with dreadnoughts as theres simply no point to it.
Scouts:
Scouts = 1.0
Frigates = 1.0
Destroyers = 1.0
Cruiser = 1.0
Dreadnoughts = 1.0
Stations = 1.0
Frigates:
Scouts = 0.8
Frigates = 1.0
Destroyers = 1.0
Cruiser = 1.0
Dreadnoughts = 1.0
Stations = 1.0
Destroyers:
Scouts = 0.5
Frigates = 0.8
Destroyers = 1.0
Cruisers = 1.0
Dreadnoughts = 1.0
Stations = 1.0
Cruisers:
Scouts = 0.3
Frigates = 0.5
Destroyers = 0.8
Cruisers = 1.0
Dreadnoughts = 1.0
Stations = 1.0
Dreadnoughts:
Scouts = 0.2
Frigates = 0.4
Destroyers = 0.6
Cruisers = 0.8
Dreadnoughts = 1.0
Stations = 1.0
Fourth Proposal - Presteige Loss
The solution to presteige loss is simple. Times current pres loss by X Number, divide everybody's current pres loss by X Number, no presteige changes. Ships become a lot more valuable. Very simple, very necessary.
Fifth Proposal - Hull Ammunition Scaling
Dreadnoughts should have greater ammunition capacity to carry far more. Especially weapons such as missile launchers. Given, not too much ammo should be provided, but enough should be provided for the Dreadnought to remain within battle without supplies for some time.
Sixth Proposal - Changing level system
Level system as it is, is too flawed. The current level system should be in fact class system, and have strict limits and non-linear. The class system would in fact be assigned to ship slots rather than the hull itself, although it should be possible to downgrade a weapon size to something smaller than it should be if desired.
Class system simply means 'Bigger', to be quite blunt. Class changes cost nothingin terms of time or money, you only need to be within a shipyard in order to do it. However, each mount has a 'maximum' in terms of class. Meaning you can only make something so big before it reaches the capacity of the mount.
Class system is applied only to weapons, and systems. Engines, Fighters, and other things are all at standard. Level system applies to everything.
Level system simply means better, although even though the changes are all-round, they are far more subtle than Class changes. Also, they cost significant amounts of credits and time. These upgrades stick with the device, and all devices start at level 0. This encourages the use of battlefield salvage.
Class Changes would be applied within the Shipyard view, in a seperate 'engineering' screen. However, since all devices automatically default to the maximum size a device can hold, it is only optional to change it.
Proposal Seven - VIVA LA EVENT TEAM!
With the advent of MIR/Legion and Pirates, I beleive that the event team needs to be restructured. Rather than these forces only appearing when, as a player had told me, 'when the admins get an itch', I wish there to be an event team that can stage constant Metaverse storyline events for everybody. These storyline events are planned in advanced by the event team for this purpose. Event Staff members will not necessarily be moderators or administrators, but they will have the permissions to use Script commands and use Pirates and MIR/Legion ships themselves as NPCs. Storyline writers will also be included. While Event Staff members can also be Moderators and Admins, generally those who are not, while having these powers, are not capible of using some standard Administrative/Moderator powers including punishment commands and profile editing commands.
Proposal Eight - Inclusion of Newbies
With Scenerio becoming obsolete, I beleive the time to include newbies is NOW. the best way to do so is to provide them with an important, easy to do purpose. Therefore, they should have access, even unsubbed, to a Supply ship and a Patrol Frigate. The Patrol frigate has one purpose, patrol and intercept. The only opponents a patrol frigate should face are randomly-spawned Pirates. Although occasionally they also may be used as front-line patrols or fast intercept craft.
Proposal Nine - Hull/Armor Balance
Having obscene amounts of armor for the main hitpoints rather than Hull is all fine and dandy were it a game on real life. However, this is Darkspace. Honestly, while I dont think armor/shields should be paper-thin, neither should Hull. There needs to be a happy medium struck, in addition, Ships need to be at a certain hull percentage or lower, say, 30-40 percent before sustaining system damage.
This is in order to allow players to gain presteige from actual combat situations. This also allows players to better adjust to the new patch. So it seems like just armor/shields are getting stronger, rather than hull getting weaker and armor/shields getting stronger.
[small][ This Message was edited by: RedXIII on 2005-06-08 16:32 ][/small]
[ This Message was edited by: RedXIII on 2005-06-08 16:49 ]
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Ghostly Specter of an Ancient Past.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-06-08 14:35
Seeings how this has been thought out (all of it) over the past several weeks, I would have to state, that this all rings good in my ears.
-Ent
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c0ld
Midshipman
Joined: June 24, 2003
Posts: 342
From: UK
| Posted: 2005-06-08 14:39
The class system sounds like a return to the old light, medium, heavy system. Am I reading that right?
[ This Message was edited by: c0ldfury on 2005-06-08 14:41 ]
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2005-06-08 14:49
Kind of, yes. Although it can be done in numbers and therefore allowing more than just light, medium heavy. Although it would be like having Ultralight, Light, Medium, Medium-heavy, Heavy, Ultra-heavy instead.
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2005-06-08 15:25
Prestige scaling by rank and hull class has been in since 1.480 as you were told before...
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2005-06-08 15:27
@Tael The scaling proposal was written in before you had told me this. I will edit and therefore add a note of that.
[ This Message was edited by: RedXIII on 2005-06-08 15:28 ]
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Ghostly Specter of an Ancient Past.
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2005-06-08 15:59
all of this sounds good........I really cannot find anything I disagree on.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-06-08 16:53
I like it so far.
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c0ld
Midshipman
Joined: June 24, 2003
Posts: 342
From: UK
| Posted: 2005-06-08 16:57
Ok, assume I came to the game, wanting to get a dreadnought, as my rank deserved. I find that they are 10 players on my side with dreadnoughts and 6 enemys with dreadnoughts. There aren't enough resourses for me to get one, so I am forced to get a cruiser.
What benefit will that cruiser be to the team?
Now, I expect you'll think "get a supply". So that leaves dreads and supply ships.
Basically your removing the need for a mixed fleet.
Also, the reduced exp thing doesn't work in reality. A kill's a kill, basic human nature.
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2005-06-08 17:00
Just tested an escort Dessy to an Escort Dessy at 40gu, removed the fore armor and shields from both and it took 23 alphas before the hull was destroyed.
So in destroyer to destroyer combat, the hulls are fine. Big ships getting through the armor tear up hulls faster...
Hulls are also just superstructure, not another armor. Hence the reason you have armor.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-06-08 17:12
Tael's right, think of it like an egg. Armour is the shell to stop the insides from getting damaged, once the shells gone, your a sitting duck since you have no defence.
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2005-06-08 17:19
I think its a bad idea though. Especially to make such a radical flip-flop in change. What about combat presteige than? Most people would run away the minute armor/shields were breached with how it is. Especially with systems being insanely fragile now.
Hull/systems should be tough enough so that players are willing to fight it out longer. Rather than ejumping the minute they get a breach.
Quote:
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Ok, assume I came to the game, wanting to get a dreadnought, as my rank deserved. I find that they are 10 players on my side with dreadnoughts and 6 enemys with dreadnoughts. There aren't enough resourses for me to get one, so I am forced to get a cruiser.
What benefit will that cruiser be to the team?
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Your whole situation is laughable. There wont be 8-10 dreadnoughts. Also, there will be dozens of other players in destroyers, cruisers, and you can really do damage to a dread especially with other dreads in support.
As I have said straight from the beginning, in Dread vs Dread combat, it may end up being the cruiser/destroyer support that carrys the day.
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c0ld
Midshipman
Joined: June 24, 2003
Posts: 342
From: UK
| Posted: 2005-06-08 17:27
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Your whole situation is laughable. There wont be 8-10 dreadnoughts.
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Who says, why won't there? that's just blind assertion. It used to happen in scen all the time. Ppl would literally sit in the ship selection screen waiting for there to be enough for a dread. And with dreads as powerfull as you want them, people would get one while they were available. Result: First 10 people to join the game get the biggest ships available, then the rest have no resourses.
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Lux (Polaris)
Fleet Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: April 20, 2004
Posts: 835
From: Asgard
| Posted: 2005-06-08 17:30
I like this idea. However, since I am not too knowledgable about any inner workings of the game, and am not included in the development of beta, there may be problems hidden to me. But I do like this plan, from what RedXII has told me.
I put trust in Red..he seems to have thought this out throughly and extensively.
[ This Message was edited by: Kitsune {Recruiting} on 2005-06-08 17:35 ]
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ICC Security Councilor - Raven representative
Loyal Admiral of the Interstellar Cultural Confederation Navy.
Senior Commander of the Raven Warriors, the ICC elite.
Captain of the Assault Dreadnaught \"Gungnir\"
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2005-06-08 17:33
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Who says, why won't there? that's just blind assertion. It used to happen in scen all the time. Ppl would literally sit in the ship selection screen waiting for there to be enough for a dread. And with dreads as powerfull as you want them, people would get one while they were available. Result: First 10 people to join the game get the biggest ships available, then the rest have no resourses.
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Heh, than they are newbs. Let them. They wont be gaining anything by sitting there.
Also, everybody can just join in cruisers/destroyers and that would just drain resource pool. Remember, Destroyers/Cruisers will be available before Dreadnoughts.
In addition, if they sit there waiting, they make the wait longer for them because they are not helping building the MV and they are not helping with defending what the faction has. They screw themselves and the team in the end.
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