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Just thought I'd share this... |
LordShard
Cadet
Joined: April 28, 2005
Posts: 140
|  Posted: 2005-05-27 20:00
I remember asking my old manager, what she thought about smoking bans, and when Virginia would get one, she said, "There will never be a smocking ban in Virginia because there would be to many law suits suing the state for discrimination." I smiled wide and walked to the bathroom and busted out laughing at her idiocy. She is a big smoker, and a habitual liar, sad she doesn't have any idea about the law or she might be a half decent manager. (She tried to hold my pay check when I walked off the job after an arguement with her so I called up the General Manager, told him that if they do I was going to SUE THEM for illegally holding my check, and the amount I would sue for it my pay + pay for every day it's held and court costs.) They promptly had my paycheck on payday. I have no idea what I'm saying anymore, I just feel like talking, so how is everyone?
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Captain_Savage
Cadet
Joined: September 30, 2003
Posts: 144
| Posted: 2005-05-27 20:58
technically, it's about the 10,238,300th link in the chain.
that's the thing about those that want power. they don't get it all at once, they chip out freedoms away bit by bit, so gradually we don't even realise it. first it starts with things we don't really care about in the first place, then it goes to things we can do without, then it extends to things we think we keep, but they put so many restrictions on it that we don't get anything at all, next thing you know, you have some thug's jackboot on your kneck, and you're wondering how the hell we let it come to this.
government wants to expand it's control, it's only real pourose is to justify it's own existence. they say they're the servents of the people, but how can they serve the people when they don't even listen to us?
history has shown, time and again, that if you give them an inch, they'll take the whole damn yard.
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Maskerade
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 21, 2002
Posts: 638
From: Canada
| Posted: 2005-05-27 21:11
Smoking bans aren't the doorway to anything, that arguement holds no water. There are plenty of bans in place currently, they are doing anything to impede anyone.
They big arguement is the one of the few remaining unrestricted legally addictive drugs is going to have restrictions placed upon it.
However the arguement is circular. As stated earlier, the majority wins
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Lrauka
Cadet
Joined: January 17, 2005
Posts: 16
| Posted: 2005-05-27 21:17
Toronto, where I live atm, has a no smoking ban in place.
I personally feel the option of having a no smoking establishment should be just that... an option.
A big sign outside saying, "We allow smoking!" will deter any non smokers who can't stand to be around it from entering.
Sounds simple and workable to me. Non smoking clubs/bars for the non smokers, smoking ones for the smokers.
Course.. nothing is simple.
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LordShard
Cadet
Joined: April 28, 2005
Posts: 140
| Posted: 2005-05-28 00:04
Smoke is bad for my computer, so ban it!
Hell smocking is illegal in cuba now even!
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Thorium
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 05, 2004
Posts: 185
| Posted: 2005-05-28 00:34
Quote:
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On 2005-05-27 15:28, Pants{UGTO/KLUTH} wrote:
Quote:
| it is the way of man... all through the ages people feel that civilization is degradeing all around then and feel that the only solution is to the problem is more control leading in the end to less freedom... and every time the people rise up and overthrow the oppression... form a new system or revise the system and the prosses starts all over again... |
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Give me an example of that. Just one.
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i knew someone was gona try and call me on that... only goes to show how great things realy are... "hey we've got smart bombs". "boy its a good thing that our bombs are clever". "hey johny cannt read but we've got smart bombs". "such a good thing"... there they go now... theres a war my friend... there they go now marching off to war again... with there bright flags waveing in the wind... there they go now marching off to war again... (ya i like D. Elfman/oingo boingo)...
why do you think we have revolutions and wars? why do you think war is our primary activity on the planet? look to all the times that the end of the world, "amagedon" has been predicted... the reson... civization has degraded to the point that the end is near... that is the answer given in all instanses... dude you dont even have to read about it if you are too lazy to bother to research it... just turn your tv to one of the many learning channels and i promise you that sometime in the next year there will be a show about it... but if you must have something to look for... look to 1000 years after the death of jesus (1037ad i think)... look to the end of the roman empire (western empire)... look to the advent of the black death... look to the napolionic wars... look to the evens leading up to WWI... look to the depression... look to WWII... and then look to our oun time... happy learning... maybe one day we will all know the past history of the world and maybe then we will avoide repeting history over and over again...
fun fact... "ring around the rossey" "pocket full of posseys" "ashes, ashes" "we all fall down"... that is from the time of the black death... it discribes the simtoms of the blackdeath... the method used to keep it away... and the pires (pilles of bodys set on fire) used to dispose of the dead...
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Thorium
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 05, 2004
Posts: 185
| Posted: 2005-05-28 00:49
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On 2005-05-27 19:28, Coeus wrote:
The big arguement that I see all the time is "Won't someone think of the children!" when all I can think is "Won't someone educate the children!"
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nailed it right there... you cannt just make a law give harsh penatys and exspect the law not to be broken... of corse there is the flip side... education leads to unjust laws not being followed...
another fun fact... you know they teach us that when serveing on jury you are to juge the case on its marets and not to juge the law.. the truth is you have the right to vote not guilty if you feel the law is unjust dispite the fact that the person is undeniably guilty...
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LordShard
Cadet
Joined: April 28, 2005
Posts: 140
| Posted: 2005-05-28 00:52
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On 2005-05-28 00:49, Thorium wrote:
nailed it right there... you cannt just make a law give harsh penatys and exspect the law not to be broken... of corse there is the flip side... education leads to unjust laws not being followed...
another fun fact... you know they teach us that when serveing on jury you are to juge the case on its marets and not to juge the law.. the truth is you have the right to vote not guilty if you feel the law is unjust dispite the fact that the person is undeniably guilty...
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The judge also had the right to overthrow the jurys ruling on a whim.
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NoPants2win
Cadet
Joined: February 23, 2002
Posts: 1275
From: Poorly ventilated paint storage facility.
| Posted: 2005-05-28 01:18
Quote:
| ... dude you dont even have to read about it if you are too lazy to bother to research it... just turn your tv to one of the many learning channels and i promise you that sometime in the next year there will be a show about it... |
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Unlike 90% of people, I don't believe everything I see on the learning channel. Television makes money by showing people what they want to see. Contrary to popular belief there is no connection between fact and prevailing public sentiment. Futhermore, I fail to see how the fall of an ancient MONARCHY is connected to a modern republic/democracy. (you may want to look one or more of those words up). I would argue that they are in fact, completely different issues.
In any case, you are missing the key point. Freedoms have always been, and will always be restricted when they conflict with the freedoms of other persons. Just because the balance has shifted towards the rights of the group, rather then the individual, does not herald the downfall of civilization.
-edit, What the hell does the bubonic plague have to do with anything? Why did you even bring that up?
[ This Message was edited by: Pants{UGTO/KLUTH} on 2005-05-28 01:20 ]
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kenetiks
Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: November 21, 2001
Posts: 1130
From: Bandcamp
| Posted: 2005-05-28 01:45
I haven't stopped smoking which still costs me money, but I have great news! With the money I saved by switching to GEICO, I can now afford smokes for me AND gas for my car.
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Creeping Shadow
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 22, 2003
Posts: 261
| Posted: 2005-05-28 03:56
this is a touchy subject ... very touchy that is ..this is jus so much i can and i wanan write about this ... but i'll try to keep it short ... first of all those who say this is about medical cost in the future ... well smokers r paying they taxes ain't they not only that taxes on ciggrets are phenominally high .. if you wanna talk about wasting tax players money so many other freakin thihings cannot be factored out not to mantion the welfare cheats and those people that relai on welfair rather then working ... anyway apart from that letz move on .. so much to say so lil time for me .... anyway what i wanna say is what ever happend to the personal freedome ... y bann wen ya can make a non smokers club's and pubs or set desiganations .. ... my main reasy i wanan say is
letz see some example ya wanan bring up i know i'm gonna get lots of critism and flame from other people but .. so many things we do harm our health and otehrs liek for driving the exaus produce harm other's health .. y not we ban driving or using combustion engin ... you can choose to walk ride a push bike ride a horse ... it'z juz 1 of the examples so many things we do continously and directly harms others ... must we start banning everything ... so start thingkin ... i donno juz so much things i wanan say bout this .. but can't be $~!*!**~ed anymore all i can see is whatz right or wrong depent totally on a precption of a individual .. so yehh screw everyoneelse and do what eva the *@@?^%%? ya want or say ... i think i kinda lost treack on where i'm gonan go for this .. so ta .. make sense if ya want .. if ya dunt wanan read i dunt care ... all i can say is where does the line of freedome and equality lies .. depend on the person
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2005-05-28 04:58
Quote:
| People who don't smoke don't like smoke, so they force the non-smoking policies on others. |
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People who do smoke can't restrict it to their lungs, so they force their smoke upon others. Its not a one-way street.
That said, I don't smoke, and I detest smoke, and if I could, I would "force my non-smoking policies on others." Sure, you may have a "right" to do what you want to your body, but in this case its not so simple. I have to endure some of the smoke some of the time, and there is nothing beneficial about smoking. Part of the role of government is protecting the people, and the lack of redeeming qualities and huge health care costs incurred and beared by the tax payers for smokers to me begs some sort of intervention. I don't want to pay for the health problems of smokers and smoke inhalers.
I also don't want to smell and inhale it in general, and I tend to avoid bars because of how smokey they are. Though in Oregon there is thankfully a ban on smoking in public places, so I don't have to worry about it in restaurants.
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| government wants to expand it's control, it's only real pourose is to justify it's own existence. they say they're the servents of the people, but how can they serve the people when they don't even listen to us? |
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They're listening to someone; you just might not be in the group that is currnetly receiving governmental favors. This leads to your feeling disaffected and unheard. You just need to gain enough popular support to swing things your way; that's how democracy works.
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| A big sign outside saying, "We allow smoking!" will deter any non smokers who can't stand to be around it from entering.
Sounds simple and workable to me. Non smoking clubs/bars for the non smokers, smoking ones for the smokers. |
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That wouldn't work. Generally, when money is concerned in a capitalistic system, players will seek the lowest common denominator to attract business. As much as I hate slippery slope arguments (which are generally fallacious), this one has historically been the case - not that historical performance is necessarily an indicator for future behavior. Basically, as soon as one bar allows smoking, they're drawing in a substantially larger base of customers, since the people nowadays who tolerate smoke is quite large. Eventually, all the bars would see that they're missing out on a large customer base and allow smoking.
This is part of the reason we have a strong federal government today - when the Articles of Confederation were being revised in favor of our current Constitution (speaking from the American point of view, obviously), one of the biggest issues they were addressing was cuthroat competition for business and population between the states. In the early twentieth century, the interstate commerce clause was strenghtened via rulings of the Supreme Court, providing further powers to the Congress to regulate states, in part because of similar issues - states would have very low standards for pollution, corporate taxes, and other regulations. This would compel many businesses to move to said states, leaving the tax base of other states harmed - such that they would in turn undercut the regulations of the other states. This basically led to a nation without any regulation of the environment, minimum wages, consumer and workplace safety, and the like. Thus, the federal government stepped in to set minimum standards, for the health and safety of everyone.
You may not agree with some of the standards they've set, but the point is that sometimes you need some higher power to impose inconveniences and minimum standards on others because of the possible repercussions.
At the moment, states and municipalities are seeing that establishments don't see it in their financial benefit to limit smoking. Seeing this as a health hazard, an eventual cost to them in terms of health care spending, and (yes) because its politically expedient at the moment to do so, governments are banning smoking.
I am fine with it, because I don't smoke, and I don't see it as an undue infringement, just like mandatory seat belt laws, or requiring bike helmets. I do it anyway, and its in our best interests, so why should I complain?
Anyway, hope you enjoyed your little civics lesson.
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2005-05-28 05:03
Quote:
| look to 1000 years after the death of jesus (1037ad i think)... look to the end of the roman empire (western empire)... look to the advent of the black death... look to the napolionic wars... look to the evens leading up to WWI... look to the depression... look to WWII... and then look to our oun time... |
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I fail to see the connection.
You're pointing out wars and such events led by absolutist governments, or at least non-representative governments. As such, they are directed by someone not responsible to public opinion... which means that people were not rising up against anything - they were being thrown against something else by their ruler.
Perhaps if you had listed a few revolutions we could at least pretend you knew what you were talking about, but as is... none of those examples prove your point. Unless, of course, your point is completely lost on me.
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| maybe one day we will all know the past history of the world and maybe then we will avoide repeting history over and over again... |
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Yeah, I've learned that we need to not restrict freedoms of the plague will rise up again!
Wait... Bird Flu - do you suppose that's an example too? Are the birds rebelling? or ...
Ok, I'm done.
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Placebo
Vice Admiral
Joined: September 16, 2003
Posts: 450
| Posted: 2005-05-28 06:28
I for one fully agree with bans on smoking... you may say, stay away from it and you will be fine, or a short time isn't bad for your health. But I am asmatic (Yes, I know, its spelt wrong) and as is my father, he is also terminally ill. As a family, we are limited greatly in where we go out by smokers and a ban, which as already been imposed in Western Australia has really helped my family, I would love for smoking to be banned outright...
Just my opinion though, which is greatly influence by my situation.
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NeoHermes (vigilance)
Cadet
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: September 29, 2003
Posts: 217
From: Floating around somewhere
| Posted: 2005-05-28 12:44
if i become president i won't give a damn what you people want. i'm goin to remove those bans and i'm goin to place a ban on non smokers for taking up space. j/king 
but really you people need to relax and let the incense take you deep into meditation.. wait you people don't do meditation nvm then go bite eachothers heads off i'm gone.
[ This Message was edited by: NeoHermes on 2005-05-28 12:48 ]
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