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Whats the point ? |
Wyke {ThorsHammer}
Cadet
Joined: February 22, 2003
Posts: 416
|  Posted: 2005-01-16 10:34
My subscription is up today and I wont be renewing because there is no point given the balance problem which has remained unfixed for the 2 years I've been playing.
Even now with both human factions allied they cannot withstand the kluth, AC's remaining cloaked whilst bombing planets with impunity, elf beaming Destroyers owning cruisers and dreads, cloaked fluxed boats, dreads remaining cloaked whilst alpha striking, more weapon mounts, including being able to mount more enemy tech than the legitimate faction. The list go on.
I have to wonder is DS is some sort of social experiment to see how long people will tolerate a no-win situation. Well I won't tolerate it any more.
Cya friends.
[ This Message was edited by: Wyke {ThorsHammer} on 2005-01-16 10:45 ]
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Kaine Darkheart -SO-
Grand Admiral
Deicide
Joined: March 30, 2002
Posts: 458
From: Oshkosh, Wisconsin
| Posted: 2005-01-16 10:49
its not that the faction's cant withstand it, its that the players cant.. all they do is whine and complain when the get killed then leave... instead of just playing despite a slight disadvantage....
its also how the kluth players perform... its not their fault they know what there doing and know how to use the proper ships at the proper time...
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Wyke {ThorsHammer}
Cadet
Joined: February 22, 2003
Posts: 416
| Posted: 2005-01-16 10:59
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On 2005-01-16 10:49, Kaine Darkheart *Monster Cookie* wrote:
its not that the faction's cant withstand it, its that the players cant.. all they do is whine and complain when the get killed then leave... instead of just playing despite a slight disadvantage....
its also how the kluth players perform... its not their fault they know what there doing and know how to use the proper ships at the proper time...
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Tart,
Are your comments supposed to convince me to stay ? Because they dont, the attitude of ' We are just elite' doesnt cut it, it never has. As to the implication I dont know what im doing, I let my rank to speak to that, a player doesnt make the rank 24 without having *some* clue.
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2005-01-16 12:31
sorry to hear that wyke.
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On 2005-01-16 10:49, Kaine Darkheart *Monster Cookie* wrote:
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seems like a good way to test that would be to shuffle fleets' faction settings. move the kluth fleets to ugto, icc to kluth and ugto over to icc. then if kluth maintained their position, it would point to the faction/ships being unbalenced, whereas if ugto/icc suddenly went on a rampage it would point to the playerbase that needs some sorting out
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2005-01-16 12:31
Wyke, sorry to see ya go, but check in now and again... The points you raised have not fallen on deaf ears... Gideon and others on the Dev team worked up a new balance system but have moved on to other projects for various reasons. Thus leaving me to code all the device and ship changes alone while Faustus works on optimizing the network code to help reduce any lag issues further.
The main reasons things got so out of whack was Palestar listening to the complaints of players and changing the stats on items without looking at how it compared to the game as a whole. We nerf one weapon and suddenly that faction is out of the game, so we tweak another device and suddenly the other two are out, so we teak something of theirs, etc... So, yes, we do understand, and are working to rebalance things. This time instead of the work being done piece-meal to placate the players, its being done as a whole to balance itsself.
A heads up to the players, one of the reasons this is taking so long is that as I work in the resourcer, ANY little glitch that I find, no matter how minute, I make Faustus fix... The Dev Team promised to put out a working balanced patch, not another, repatch 20 times to fix the patch releases... So I am doing my best to make sure everything, including things as small as graphics and beam fire locations, are working propperly.
I havent worked on the ICC ships todate because of an issue with the graphics I noted in the Resourcer, Faustus fixed the big alignment issue, but I noted another slight issue that wouldnt affect the players much, but I still want resolved before moving forward.
So this weak will be spent working on the UTGO and Kluth fleets in beta and then once I am satisfied the ICC issue is resolved, close them out probably last.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-01-16 13:15
Theres actutally quite a valid way to fix the balence issues.
This is what should be done if everyone is to be happy - Each faction gets 1 system, 1 planet in that system, one ship to play with and one gun to fire.
That way there could be no possible way anything could be unbalenced.
-Ent
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Ragglock
Marshal
BIOnics Industry Syndicate
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1955
From: Denmark
| Posted: 2005-01-16 13:21
Quote:
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seems like a good way to test that would be to shuffle fleets' faction settings. move the kluth fleets to ugto, ICC to kluth and ugto over to ICC. then if kluth maintained their position, it would point to the faction/ships being unbalanced, whereas if ugto/Icc suddenly went on a rampage it would point to the player base that needs some sorting out
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been there, done that both, as ugto / Icc 
trust me, on the broader scheme of things it’s the player and not the hardware that Drive the ships.
Icc and ugto biggest disadvantage is:
the amount and quality of veteran expert players on kluth
many of them are able to turn any fraction around no matter the op force and have done it.
don’t misunderstand there are as always an need for tweaking of the ship and weapon layout on all sides and its been done as we speak.
the only problem as long as most of the best players are on kluth it will not change things or the balance issues, the vets are good enough to overcome any adjustments made to the game and will get out on top fast im afraid
and for myself only thing that actually have kept me from switching to icc / ugto was the alliance, just as it was in effect i was getting ready to a change of things , but i have never dropped out from an faction just because or when things got rough or outnumbered, and its also only then the real DS starts to get fun and challenging.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-01-16 13:54
Ragglock would say that.
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Wyke {ThorsHammer}
Cadet
Joined: February 22, 2003
Posts: 416
| Posted: 2005-01-16 14:13
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On 2005-01-16 12:31, Tael wrote:
Wyke, sorry to see ya go, but check in now and again... The points you raised have not fallen on deaf ears
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I'll be poping into the beta from time to time in the hope that things can be improved enough to resub after the next patch.
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2005-01-16 14:25
I think Ragglock has a valid point. Other factions have been on top when their players make a serious effort to counteract the K'luth, or when a few strong and dedicated Kluth pilots switch factions.
I'm not denying there are balance problems, as there most certainly are... however, player balance often has a greater effect on these sorts of things. You can, after all, take down any factions' dreads with a few frigates if the numbers and the players are in the right proportion.
I'm not making excuses for the game, as its needed better balance - we are already working on that though. I'm just saying that there are many, many factors going into such results, and you're being scientifically negligent if you don't take them into account when analysing the strenghts of groups and factions.
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2005-01-16 14:42
im glad your not strait out leavin wyke... would be a great loss
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Coeus {NCX-Charger}
Admiral, I can't read,
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 3635
From: South Philly
| Posted: 2005-01-16 15:44
Its not player skill that lets a destroyer go point blank toe-to-toe with a cruiser & gain the upper hand in one single alpha strike - I don't care how leet of a spacebar masher that player is.
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Darkspace: Twilight
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2005-01-16 17:35
I was just saying, I suppose, that we shouldn't dismiss Ragglock's point out of hand because of some other balance problems.
However, we have now successfully diverted the thread a bit; my apologies. The kluth balance issue is old and will never get past arguments, so I'll drop it from here on out.
I look forward to the day, Wyke, when you feel willing to play again.
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* [S.W]AdmBito @55321 Sent \"I dunno; the French had a few missteps. But they're on the right track, one headbutt at a time.\"
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Placebo
Vice Admiral
Joined: September 16, 2003
Posts: 450
| Posted: 2005-01-16 18:21
With the shuffle idea,
What if players don't actually want to change faction?
Like I personally don't want to play K'luth or UGTO...I'm happy playing ICC, like I have since I started playing Darkspace...
So doing a shuffle will probably just cause more problems....
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Lord DowneyBUM (UK)
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 13, 2003
Posts: 437
From: London England
| Posted: 2005-01-17 03:18
"The main reasons things got so out of whack was Palestar listening to the complaints of players and changing the stats on items without looking at how it compared to the game as a whole. We nerf one weapon and suddenly that faction is out of the game, so we tweak another device and suddenly the other two are out, so we teak something of theirs, etc... So, yes, we do understand, and are working to rebalance things. This time instead of the work being done piece-meal to placate the players, its being done as a whole to balance itsself."
Who said democracy works.!!
Seriously i believe we should have a limit of players in the teams, sam as it used to be on the old FA servers.
Kluth do seem to have more players, not better, but more and numbers make a difference.
Might be an idea of having a couple of rotational, mercenary fleets that players can join to aid factions that are being subject to threat of annihalation?
I would be up for it, also it would give a broader range of experiences rather than th esingle fleet experience. Might make people stay.
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