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HOW LAME ARE YOU?! |
Flyer
Admiral
Joined: December 07, 2001
Posts: 143
From: Belgium
|  Posted: 2004-11-23 01:58
This is going to be ugly but here it goes.
When I have no chance of escaping and I have no or almost no weapons left I hit SD and try to get as close to the most damaged enemy ship as possible. I do this everytime. I do NOT care that you do not get a kill. I only care that I do the MOST damage to an enemy fleet.
I think that the people who whine about their Kill stat are LAME.
Why because they think that that stat is important --> it has NO prestige value or any other value. And people whio care about this stat are most of the time not very good teamplayers (eg they go for the kill first and the best intrest of the faction comes after that).
So Leave SD like it is.
Maybe you can change the killstat so that it is based on the amount damage is done by a player on a ship that was destroyed.
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Chubba
Grand Admiral
Joined: April 29, 2003
Posts: 293
From: Australia
| Posted: 2004-11-23 02:25
JUST SD !!!!
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-RevenG-
Raven Warriors
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 2673
| Posted: 2004-11-23 03:00
SDD. The fleet of sders. Join SDD today. SDD stands for super self destructers. All harm infilcted is because you Sded and we are not liable for any damage done to you. Do not expect pity for these actions. Trying to take up a lawsuit against us will result in fleet members flying into you and SDing. Have a nice day.
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Taelron
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 06, 2001
Posts: 1035
From: SF Bay Area,
| Posted: 2004-11-23 03:34
Well I guess since you wanted to use me as an example, its time to put in my 2 cents...
So let me see if I get your right here... You are upset because you feel cheated you didn’t get the little gold star next to your name for the kill when someone SD's? That’s the real crux of the thread. But we'll address that last... Lets first look at how monotonous and absurd this whole rant is.
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On 2004-11-22 08:13, Dreadlock Holiday wrote:
I suggest that unless you are being boarded or unless activating SD would cause damage to a nearby enemy ship, then doing so should incur a SERIOUSLY BIG prestige hit. The more prestige you have, the bigger the hit you should take.
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Let’s look at how Prestige is calculated:
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How is my prestige calculated?
The current prestige calculation is as follows:
Prestige =
+ Ships Damaged x 3
+ Ships Captured x 15
+ Planets Damaged x 1
+ Planets Captured x 5
+ Repair x 2.5
+ Construction x 1
+ Scouting x 1
+ Kamikaze x 5
+ Jumps x 0.1
+ Bonus Prestige x 1
- Friendly Fire x 3
- Scrapping x 1
- Self-Destructs x 5
- Planet Collisions x 1
- Resources Lost x 0.0025
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Resources Lost is calculated by the resource value of the ship you are in when you die. The bigger the ship, the larger the loss of Prestige points. The higher your rank, the larger the ship you can take… While this means the more damage you can inflict out, it also means you risk a higher number of resource lost points.
Self Destructs is calculated at a negative loss for each of your SD’s. Thus the more you SD, the more points you loose.
The goal in SD’ing for Kamikaze points is to inflict enough ships damage on the enemy fleet and ships during your SD to offset the Pres loss from the SD and Resources Lost. This is not always met. In fact it’s hard to even achieve a balanced trade off, so in most instances the person SDing losses more points than he gains, and often because of the Self Destruct modifier, looses more points than he would have if he just simply died.
Let’s look at my SD’s…
I have sacrificed enough points to promote many players to higher ranks.
Self Destructs = 845
845 x 5 = 4225
This translates into 4225 Prestige Points lost.
Resources Lost = 11171920
11171920 x 0.0025 = 27929.8
This translates into 27,929.8 Prestige Points lost.
27,929.8 + 4225 = 32,154.8
This translates into 32,154.8 total Prestige Lost.
Kamikaze Points = 4119.154785
4119.154785 * 5 = 20,595.773925
This translates into 20,595.7773925 Prestige Points earned from Kamikaze.
That’s still a deficit of 11,559.026075.
Granted not all of my Resources Lost is from SD’s, many are from dieing outright, but we can’t look back and figure the difference so I just lumped it together… Might be better to look at SD’s versus Kamikaze points…
Kamikaze Points per SD (Avg*): 4.875
Prestige Per SD (Avg*): 24.374
*Rounded to thousandths to keep things simple.
The resources lost for a ship is also not a static value… Each ship has its own value, and the rank of the person flying it influences the resource lost points incurred if the ship is lost. So a 1st Rear Admiral loosing a ship might loose 70 points, an Admiral loosing the same ship will loose 120 points. (these are approximates since I don’t feel like looking back at the code docs.)
So looking back at what you said:
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The more prestige you have, the bigger the hit you should take.
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Simply put, “You Do.”
Side note: Ironically I have lost more points in Resources and from SD’s than you have… But moving right along…
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On 2004-11-22 11:30, Dreadlock Holiday wrote:
Let's not beat around the bush. A lot of lamers SD simply to rob others of the kill.
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RFLOL…………….
Ok, Sorry about that, but here we go again… I get a laugh out of people that whine about kills… Every few months someone comes along and rants about someone stealing their kills. “I did all the work damaging him, and then player Noob swoops in and deals the kill shot…” This is just another “they stole my kill” rant…
The same players that worry about their kill stat are the ones that usually have no respect from the other players they are playing against. Just ranting about it will make other players go out of their way just to keep you from getting the kill, which means more will probably SD on you simply for spite… Oh wait, several have already sworn to do so… So I digress…
Hmm, lets look above, Ships Damage… Ok, so if I damage someone, I get points… Makes sense… hmm, wait… nope, no points for Kills… So finishing off someone doesn’t make me any more points… So I get points for damaging them, but not killing them…
I can tell you from experience here, players in this community respect the Ship’s Damaged bold score a lot more than they do the Kills score…
You see a guy with 10,000 Ships damage points but only 300 kills, and then look at the Guy with 1500 kills, but only 2000 ships damage points, who are you going to fear meeting in battle? The first guy, and probably snicker and laugh as the second guy dies in the first 10 seconds of the battle.
Kills are a meaning less stat in the game, and all true vets know it… That’s all we’ll say on that.
Oh, and in real life, it’s actually more beneficial to “wound” an enemy than it is to kill him. If you kill a combatant, he is dead… His body can be left there until the engagement is over. But if you “wound” an enemy, then you just tied up no less than 30 people for each one person you leave alive but wounded. Medicals, recovery teams, doctors, drivers, nurses, etc… So you kill a guy and have one less riffle firing at you, you wound him and there are 10 less riffles firing at you… Hmm, what is more tactically sound?
Same thing in the game, a person with a ship to badly damaged is more than likely to destroy it to get back into the game quicker. Someone who is boarder line is going to be willing to sit out 10 minutes while a supply or two repair him, you now have 2 or 3 players out of the battle for 10 minutes, vice killing one guy who returns in 2 minutes… Again, what’s more tactically valid? Do you get why Kills are meaningless and why Ships Damaged is the true merit of a good Vet?
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On 2004-11-22 11:30, Dreadlock Holiday wrote:
There are only 2 valid reasons for SDing, when you have been boarded and when you want to try and take someone with you. Anything else is SD exploitation.
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Is that so? You must not read much SCI or Military Fiction books… Or watch that many TV shows or movies… Its common practice to scuttle your own ship to keep the enemy from taking her as a prize. It’s also a common practice to engage the Self Destruct on your ship in hopes of damaging the enemy when you know your ship is lost. Star Trek has them activating the self destruct at least once a season. And not just because they are boarded, the hope is that even though you have lost, you can take the enemy with you or at least it gives them a bloody nose…
So by simple fact of current real life and all sci-fi and fictional storyline accounts, this point is ludicrous at best… No sense wasting time with it… Watch some Sci-Fi and come back and talk to us with a little more clarity.
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On 2004-11-22 11:30, Dreadlock Holiday wrote:
Everyone knows why the majority of people SD and there is nothing honourable or clever about it. If there is a simpe fix out there (like heavy prestige penalty) then let's have it.
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Hmm, well let’s see, so as you put it, Honorable is sitting there like a wood duck at a carnival shooting range waiting for the freckled faced little kid to shoot you with a B.B. and win his stuffed animal. That’s just plain silly and reaps volumes about just how little this whole rant was thought out…
How about the Honor of sacrificing yourself (in this case your score) to help your team. Hopefully you will damage the enemy in your SD, and then can quickly rejoin your mates in battle. Seams more like team work to sacrifice some of your hard earned score to further the goals of the “team” as a whole.
As for the cleaver part, again, sitting there while your team gets pummeled, or utilizing the SD and sacrificing your score to damage the enemy and get combat ships back in the game to help your team seams like a pretty smart action to me. The un-cleaver would be the ones just sitting there watching their team loose the battle while twiddling their thumbs, and failing to act on any possible tactical advantage that may avail itself to them.
Self Destructs on the profiles don’t just come from hitting Cntl-D twice. Any action you perform that causes damage that kills you also causes you to receive Friendly Fire points (more Prestige loss) and causes you to incur a Self Destruct on your record.
I fly in with a Torp Cruiser and deliver the killing blow to a station, the splash damage from my own torps is calculated after the Damage from the Station blowing up and its enough combined to put me over the threshold. I am know dead too, but the server calculates it as a SD.
A minelayer puts out a minefield and leads an enemy into it, doesn’t realize he is to close and blows the mines, he gets an SD as well… Same with bombs, any weapon, if the splash hits you and kills you, you are scored a defacto Self Destruct.
This all said, whining about not getting a "Kill" is a laughable rant at best and imho is deserving of the Lameness award...
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FloridaSunrise
Vice Admiral
Joined: March 22, 2004
Posts: 8
From: Germany
| Posted: 2004-11-23 04:20
To Dreadlock's initial posting:
Well, sometimes people deliberately fly into planets, because they see no chance to escape the enemy. I suggest, following your sane way of thinking, Dreadlock Holiday, to remove all planets AND to remove the possibilty to auto-destruct on keystroke. Also, because FA's like to use wormholes to send enemy units around in space or sometimes directly into suns, I'm convinced that stars, all stellar constellations, should be removed completely, too.
I'm with you, Dreadlock; let's protest until these issues get fixed.
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!Lono! {Rogue Kluth}
Cadet
Joined: April 19, 2002
Posts: 128
From: Hawaii
| Posted: 2004-11-23 04:31
You wanna know lame? Florida sunrise thats a true lamer..SD when he had 100% hull and maybe 50% armor LMAO
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Calm down befoa I karang ur allahs!
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Dreadlock Holiday
Admiral
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 29
| Posted: 2004-11-23 07:29
Well i'm not going to respond to you all individually it would take too long and frankly many of your posts are not worthy of a response..
In response to Ferulwulf. Your point about me fluxing is well made. Those who know me know that I hate flux. I think it ruins the game. I was using it on the "If you can't beat them join them" basis. Having said that, I haven't used flux for about a week. Call it a change of heart. Also its use seems to have generally declined. Thankfully.
The rest of your post Ferulwulf was very much about you. I certainly don't want or intend to go through every player in DS to say how lame they are. You can decide that for yourselves. I wouldn't consider you lame based on the things in your post.
It is clear that many of you have not read (or perhaps understood) all my posts.
Flyer for example:
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| ... I hit SD and try to get as close to the most damaged enemy ship as possible |
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I thought I'd made it clear I don't have a problem with that.
This also covers Taelron's post where he goes on about kamikaze. Had he bothered to read my posts he would realise I have no problem with it... In fact the quote of mine he used to ridicule me actually supported what he was saying O_o.
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| There are only 2 valid reasons for SDing, when you have been boarded and when you want to try and take someone with you. Anything else is SD exploitation. |
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"Taking someone with you" = kamikaze = not LAME
I have said this a number of times. Taelron, I agree with your post. It is a shame you misunderstood what I had been saying and misrepresented my position. The insults were also unnecessary.
I will admit that my knowledge of how prestige is calculated was sadly lacking and I thank Taelron for his input on that matter.
Note: I have not called any INDIVIDUAL lame because I do not know the circumstances in which they have used SD.
Many people mistakenly think I care about my kill score. I don't. As I stated in my response to Grimith, it is the cheating and lack of sportsmanship that gets to me.
Vice Linna Yamazaka:
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| I have used SD in both the ways you have said. I've been jumped and SD to stop the four of five K'Luth that have jumped me from getting a kill. And I have also Set SD and flew toward crippled enimey ships in a atempt to take them with me. I have also killed a station in that manner, and with a low hull/armor dread. Though I have done the sd in the past to stop from being killed I have since stoped it and If they have me they have me. I accept the kill then go crying to my shipyard to get another ship to blast my killer, or die trying. But I have goten better now and no longer die as quickly as I used to. |
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This frankly, is the kind of person I want to play with. Man enough to admit he did abuse SD and man enough to stop doing it.
I will state one last time for those of you with comprehension difficulties and put it in quotes:
"My only problem with SD is people using it ONLY to deny another player the kill. "
Please could the devs comment on this? What was their intent when SD was implemented?
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|2eason
Grand Admiral
Agents
Joined: September 30, 2001
Posts: 1252
From: Wisconsin, US
| Posted: 2004-11-23 07:40
*hands Dreadlock Holiday a big block of cheese*
If someone SDs, big deal, get over it. Go shoot someone else.
- |2eason -
[ This Message was edited by: |2eason on 2004-11-23 07:41 ]
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[-[A]-]|2eason the retired
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Chubba
Grand Admiral
Joined: April 29, 2003
Posts: 293
From: Australia
| Posted: 2004-11-23 07:53
hahaha
what he said^^^
***SD in 10 secs***
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
GET OVER IT
BOOM!
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Sops
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 490
| Posted: 2004-11-23 20:18
Well I only have 4 SD, one from when I was a noob and stupid and I wanted to see what it looked like, once by accident and another time on purpose and I don't remember the 4th
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2004-11-23 20:35
Amen brother Tael 
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Tbone
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 21, 2001
Posts: 1756
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2004-11-23 20:36
76 SD's... I guess that means I'm 76 times the lame.
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Fornax
Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 906
From: Jacksonville, FL
| Posted: 2004-11-23 20:41
Dreadlock,
Your original premise was rebutted and smashed flat with a rock.
That you are oblivious to it just means you don't get it, yet.
As to your reference to Feralwulf. It's rare that you meet somebody as selfless and willing to help as he. What I find interesting on this thread is, pretty much, nobody agreed with you. Most are simply comments about personal experiences...and a few seem to want to discuss fine points, but none agree with the primary premise that most SDing is 'Lame'.
Time to let this one die.
Nax
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Grimith
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 09, 2003
Posts: 836
From: Your local future farm.
| Posted: 2004-11-23 20:44
I've got 67! I can't even remember the last time I SD'ed, anyway... I think it was a few months after I realized that Kamikaze gains were totally disabled (major bummer, by the way... I'd have at least 1000 by now).
---EDIT: Knew I forgot something...
Anyway, eh. Don't have much in the realm of "important" to add. Really tried to think of something witty, but I just couldn't (yeah, so, what I forgot was to state that I couldn't think of anything  ). But, yeah! SIXTY-SEVEN SELF DESTRUCTS! WOO!
Oh, and, Feralwulf... offhand...... I don't ever remember you killing me.
[ This Message was edited by: Crazy Command Dread Pilot on 2004-11-23 20:46 ]
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Rock
Cadet
Evil Empires Inc.
Joined: November 11, 2003
Posts: 17
| Posted: 2004-11-23 20:54
Look at me, no SDs at all, after a year of playing, and at VA rank. The last year and a half I've SDed maybe once on my main account. The main reason I don't SD anymore isn't he so called lameness factor, but in fact basic math. Waiting a bit till I die saves me 5 pres every time, plus theres more time for any allies to come to your aid.
When you die you blow up anyway, and usually when you SD you do it with the intent of "I'm gonna hug him, SD and get kami points". For me, kami points are a nice bonus, achieved by knowing when to steer for the enemy and to get as close as possible when you die.
Besides, as long as you aren't dead, you have to fight. Better to fire some extra torps at your enemy before dying eventually, you get more ships damaged, and your mates have it easier to get rid of him then. Regardless of how much damage you do, it's always better for your pres to do so.
Last but not least... if you wanna do at least noticeable damage when going boom, you need a dread or a station. Personally, I prefer to not lose one of those at all, simply cause of their high prestige penalty when killed. The SD/death damage they do might be quite a chunk, but it rarely outweighs your losses. Always try to preserve each and every ship you fly, and you'll rarely have to worry about losing prestige ever again.
Simply put: SD or don't, it makes barely any gameplay difference, but your profile will benefit from it. Do whatever you like with it.
Rock
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