| Author |
HOW LAME ARE YOU?! |
Hellza - master
Cadet
Joined: February 24, 2004
Posts: 556
|  Posted: 2004-11-22 15:17
i am not going to let a h00man kill me
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Dreadlock Holiday
Admiral
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 29
| Posted: 2004-11-22 15:31
No Fornax i'm not suggesting duelling situations. You are confusing the issue. I've nothing against people escaping from death, be it by emergency jumping or getting help. Nor is anyone suggesting they should let someone else kill them. That would be ridiculous. But there is a big difference between running, fighting to the death, kamikaze and comitting suicide out of sheer petulance.
Exploiting SD is not even about escaping death. It is an admission of defeat. It is in fact making death inevitable. The only purpose of exploiting SD is to rob another player of the kill. I've only seen SD used once properly (to take another ship with them in this case) in the last month and i've seen dozens of people using SD in that time. I'll say it again. LAME.
Frankly, I can't believe so many people think using SD in such a lame manner is ok and not an exploit. Maybe i'm one of the few people who doesn't do it. maybe the rest of you use it and so feel compelled to defend such a childish action. I don't know. I hope i'm wrong.
The only thing lamer is using SYs to escape death and get new ship - you'll all be telling me that's ok too. But that's a whole different post.
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Grimith
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 09, 2003
Posts: 836
From: Your local future farm.
| Posted: 2004-11-22 16:00
All right, I'm currently taking a break out of the birthday celebrations at my house (a.k.a: eating pizza and cake while waiting for Angel and Charmed to air) to address this, so you all better count yourselves lucky.
Anyway, the first thing I have to say involves a question. "Why do kills matter?" Once you've thought of a good answer, continue reading.
One reason why many people SD is to avoid the trouble of having to wait ages in order to escape/be killed.
Need an example? All right.
Bomber jumps to a planet, charges the planet, bombs the planet, but finds himself under attack by enemy ships. Whether the bomber will escape is debateable, but it is clear that the bomber will have low hull if it does.
Repairing takes time... time that is in short supply, especially in the middle of war. If the bomber's all the way down at 3% hull, and the most depots that there are on a planet are two, then it might be more wise to SD so a bomber can quickly be pulled out.
All right, all right... maybe you're saying, "Couldn't the pilot of the bomber just hop into a nearby sy, scrap the bomber, and pull out a new one?" Yes, the bomber could. However, this would still involve a waste of time! If the JD is fried to hell (along with every other system), and the bomber is traveling at max speed... well, hell, it's going to be a long time before the bomber is functional to even get to an sy --- especially when it is alone.
There are other examples (some would be better), but I feel that I can rest my case on that.
Oh, and, by the way... if you've got a good answer for "why kills matter," then I'd like to hear it.
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vincoed
Midshipman
Joined: January 18, 2004
Posts: 3
| Posted: 2004-11-22 17:05
moved to general.
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AdmBito
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: October 04, 2002
Posts: 1249
From: Its hard out here for a pimp
| Posted: 2004-11-22 17:08
If you shoot a grouping of torpedos at something, i.e. a ganglia or something else large, and you are close to it, and have low hull....boom. AM torps have a particularly nasty habit of doing this. I think they may also contribute to your FF score, but I'm not sure.
As to Grimith's post: that sounds like borderline exploiting. Self destructing just to work your way around the normal ways of getting a new ship? Close...
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Xilaratu
Cadet
Joined: May 06, 2004
Posts: 745
From: Florida
| Posted: 2004-11-22 17:28
Yes, they do give you FF bito. So does having people ram the MiRV's under you.
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Dreadlock Holiday
Admiral
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 29
| Posted: 2004-11-22 17:46
Quote:
| One reason why many people SD is to avoid the trouble of having to wait ages in order to escape/be killed. |
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I can honestly say that I only ever see people using SD when they are near death anyway - so close to death that "waiting" (for death) isn't really a factor. Neither is escape a factor as these players clearly intend to escape, but finding death seemingly inevitable choose to SD.
Your bomber example is very specific to a certain situation. I have seen bombers apparently deliberately crash into a planet as a form of SD and I have no problem with that (they should loose MUCH prestige though). They never intended to survive in the first place and so are not just trying to avoid giving someone a kill. If a bomber where to avoid the planet, attempt to escape and then realising escape was unlikely chose to SD - that would be lame.
Remember my beef is with people who SD merely to avoid giving an enemy a "kill".
Which brings up your question as to why "kills" are important. Well clearly the developers think it important. They have programed graphics and sound effects to make kills significant. They could just make ships disappear upon death with no fanfare at all... In fact the whole game revolves to a large extent around killing other players. The game simply wouldn't work without kills. Furthermore, the devs have seen fit to record a persons kills.
Personally I don't play to build planets. I don't play to fly around and enjoy the graphics and sound effects. I play to fight other players. DS is a war game and war involves killing. My goal in fighting other players is to kill them, and so when people SD willy nilly I feel cheated of achieveing my goal. No one likes to feel cheated. No one likes cheats.
I know for a fact that i'm not the only person who feels this way and i've heard plenty of others say "lame" or words to that effect when somone abuses SD. To be honest if everyone used SD this way I wouldn't play the game at all. Currently, there is nothing to stop anyone and everyone abusing SD if they want to...
DS is a game and as such should be played in a sporting manner. There is far too much cheating in DS as it is and I tihnk most people would agree that cheating ruins the game. Abuse of SD is in my opinion cheating. It is almost as bad as the SY abuse. There is no need for it. I've never done it nor ever will.
I doubt the devs intended for it to be used in the way most people use it (If i'm wrong or right devs, let me know please). I think something needs to be done about it.
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Panicswitch
Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 24
From: Canada
| Posted: 2004-11-22 17:48
i would sd on you just to annoy you after you made this post.
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Strategery
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: December 07, 2002
Posts: 522
From: Straight Outta Boston!
| Posted: 2004-11-22 18:03
My 2 cents....
Coming from a player with a rather high amount of SDs (i'm in the top 70), I must state something that has been stated since i started playing this game.... KILLS DO NOT MATTER. The rather intelligent designer and programmer of this great game (Big F) put the entire prestige system and combat damage points into play to therefore forever eliminate any meaning in kill totals. The kill/killed stat has and always will be rather meaningless. It's kinda just there to fill out the statistic page.
And If your wondering WHY I have so many SDs.... well those are from a different time in the game. I haven't done that in quite some time, nor died by many other players hands for that matter. I used to SD a lot, nothing to hide with that. I don't have to justify my SDs to anyone and as i believe Fornax said, I have no obligation to ever let anyone kill me. Not that i'm SDing to escape being killed by an opponent, or used to anyway. I had my reasons. That doesn't make me lame by any means.
Not really much more to say here. Except maybe your the lame one for caring so much about kill statistics in the first place.
Out 
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ICC Master Battle Strategist (ret.)
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Grimith
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 09, 2003
Posts: 836
From: Your local future farm.
| Posted: 2004-11-22 18:54
Quote:
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On 2004-11-22 17:08, AdmBito {Flooded!} wrote:
As to Grimith's post: that sounds like borderline exploiting. Self destructing just to work your way around the normal ways of getting a new ship? Close...
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Agree with you. It's happened plenty of times before my eyes, though --- and a clear example is the K'luth Advanced Carrier. Seen that explode many times.
Anyway, Dreadlock... eh... I don't have much to say right now, so I'll just keep it simple: What does having another "notch in the belt" actually achieve? Does it give you a sense of satisfaction or something? I know that most of my kills haven't come from anything I'm exceptionally proud of... it was no great achievement on my part. Now, if I had slaved away and chopped a great deal of hull and gotten the kill basically by myself, or if I had been really injured, sure, those are the times that I'm happy with a kill. Still, though, SD'ing doesn't prevent my happiness much --- hey, the ship's dead, vengeance is gained, and I can wave a little flag now. Woo. Granted, these are my opinions, but you'll have to excuse me for just not seeing why it's such a great deal --- especially since kills don't give you a plus to anything at all. They're just a (relatively useless, in my eyes) statistic.
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Linna Yamazaka {Vice Admiral}
Vice Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 03, 2003
Posts: 415
From: killer
| Posted: 2004-11-22 20:36
I have used SD in both the ways you have said. I've been jumped and SD to stop the four of five K'Luth that have jumped me from getting a kill. And I have also Set SD and flew toward crippled enimey ships in a atempt to take them with me. I have also killed a station in that manner, and with a low hull/armor dread. Though I have done the sd in the past to stop from being killed I have since stoped it and If they have me they have me. I accept the kill then go crying to my shipyard to get another ship to blast my killer, or die trying. But I have goten better now and no longer die as quickly as I used to.
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Banshee
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: August 28, 2001
Posts: 2181
From: Philadelphia, PA
| Posted: 2004-11-22 21:24
Agreed with Demp lol.
Call it Lame as much as you want, Frankly SD is there for a reason.
If I feel that ive been cheated in anyway, I'll SD, I'll have my revenge, like being a lone cruiser hunted by 13 Kluth ships, be buggered if gang-bangers are making anything out of me.
Another issue, somebody jumps and fluxs, dead in the water, again, buggered if anyone gets a free underserved kill.
End of story far as im concerned
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Feralwulf
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 24, 2004
Posts: 1729
From: sitting somewhere drinking beer
| Posted: 2004-11-22 22:52
Quote:
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On 2004-11-22 08:13, Dreadlock Holiday wrote:
Self destructing to avoid being killed is incredibly pathetic and un-sports-man-like. People who do it need to grow up and get a life!
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THIS coming from one that can't fly without Flux 
I have a few SDs. Some (like Bito) I accidentally Mined or got myself bombed. There was a bug not long ago (many may remember) where when you were killed it for some reason said you SDed (don't know if it counted on your profile that way or not).
I have SDed right on top of or under an enemy when I knew I was about to go anyway. When I started Kamakazies counted too so SDing on somebody kinda evened out I guess.
Lately my SDs have gone up. I won't let somebody Flux my perfectly good ship and just sit there and let them kill me.
You want to talk about Sportsman and UNsportsman like conduct?
Ask around. In an even fight (or an UNeven fight for that matter) I RARELY even E jump much less SD. If you fight me, and come out on top, well Unless for whatever reason I don't want to lose the ship I will usually stay to the bitter end.
Also ask around. There are a few here that KNOW I could have destroyed them and didn't. In fact I have on many occasions TOLD them to "go get repairs and come back" or asked if The were outta ammo, and told them to go for supply.
I don't have a lot of kills. I don't Because I CHOOSE not to.
When you fight me if you have EARNED the kill you get it. If you flux me, or otherwise jump me when I can't defend myself ..........You have only earned the right to watch me SD. If I am unable to defend myself and unable to get away WHY should I feed you Prestige.
Sportsman like? UNsportsmanlike?
Which one am I?
Thugonomics, Which one am I?
Bito? What say you?
Banshee?
Fatal Command?
LostINN?
Supertrooper?
Grimith ?
Fornax?
Forseth?
Switchblade?
$yTHe?
Meko?
Sparkomatic?
Azreal?
Peachy?
I have fought and been killed by all of the above (and MANY more) on more than one occasion.
I have also had a chance to kill ALL of them at one time or another (but did not) and some didn't even know I saw them when they were drifting around deep space looking for a suppy.
I don't think any of them would call me Unsportsman like. They MAY call me other ........unsavory things But I doubt they would call me Unsportsmanlike.
[ This Message was edited by: Feralwulf {just say no to Flux} on 2004-11-22 23:04 ]
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Don't mess with old dudes...age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill!
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Scythe
Commander
Joined: May 07, 2003
Posts: 167
From: Tasmania, Australia
| Posted: 2004-11-22 22:58
The real question is, why are you worrying about this? Kills do not do anythign to the profile except add "bragging rights", and there is more than enough bragging round here atm than needed IMO. SD'ing only damages the person who used it by increasing their resources lost stat and killed stat, while reducing their total prestige.
The only way SD'ing can hurt you is if you are basically right on top of the person that uses it, and if you are there then SD is serving it's purpose. You may call it lame with respect to the way that you play, however, there are people in this game that are trying to get the highest ranking in Kamikaze. And to do that they need to die on other players, the best means to this end is to use a self destruct.
All i can suggest to you is to suck it up and take a little bit of pride in the fact that you either a) damaged someone enough that they had to SD or that you were too far away for their SD to damage you therefore making it a wasted death.
Nat
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Ex-Grand Admiral Scythe
Darkspace Developer
Commander - Line Station Excalibur
Captain - Assault Dreadnaught Australis
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2004-11-23 00:54
Quote:
| I've killed myself with AM torps before. By accident.  |
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what even in the hell are you doing as an instructor!!! haha just kidding...
Ferawulf, you are correct, i wouldnt call you unsportsmanlike.... however i would call you......
haha
what a lame rant. at least SY abuse rants and flux rants are ACTUAL issues. this is one man (boy) with a vendetta against SD. im with demp, if i saw u in the mv id just SD on you to spite you.
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