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The new Flux is out of hand |
twitch
Grand Admiral
Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 89
From: twitch
|  Posted: 2004-09-17 06:57
IMHO there isnt anything wrong with the flux at the moment except theat the Kluth are the only ones thjat can really use the flux cannons... whats up with that
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First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2004-09-17 07:19
Fact is that Combat Balance at a whole is out of hands, but....
/me starts to chant
1.483
1.483
1.483
Oh praise the remote resourcer, shalt Gideon come down upon the Metaverse with his blessed all-shiny new Slots and Gadgets..
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Wyke {ThorsHammer}
Cadet
Joined: February 22, 2003
Posts: 416
| Posted: 2004-09-17 08:22
Quote:
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On 2004-09-16 22:26, Gideon wrote:
Only differences are that it's no longer UGTO only, and it fits the heavy weapon slot.
So, people are getting hit with many at once, from the K'Luth.
It's amusing to me when people think they are knocked out by one flux. One flux generally will do little to a ship with full defenses. You are being hit by three or more fluxes, at the same time. THAT is what is melting your ships.
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Following the introduction of the System Damage patch Flux Wave is lethal.
To give an example, nameless (ICC) was last night flying a AC. Several times he jumped into battles and let them off. At first I though the sudden jumps in damage I was getting just lag-damage.
However on his final attack he alone jumped my completly undamaged TC which had full hull, full armour, and alpha struck from around 140-160 cu away. That one alpha knocked me down from 100 to 46 hull and disabled practically every system with many actually destroyed.
I suggest you test it out for yourself.
[ This Message was edited by: Wyke on 2004-09-17 08:28 ]
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Coeus {NCX-Charger}
Admiral, I can't read,
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 3635
From: South Philly
| Posted: 2004-09-17 08:36
I've long thought of trying a flux wave AC... but I don't think I could stomache the lameness of it & the unbalance.
Damn you nameless! 
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Darkspace: Twilight
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_x$witchBladex_ [1.480 Fanboy]
Grand Admiral
Joined: February 26, 2003
Posts: 849
From: Upstate New York
| Posted: 2004-09-17 10:55
Wyke, I seem to remember when only UGTO could use flux. Everybody thought it was cheap at the time, but didn't say anything. Now that everyone else can get it your complaining as a member of the UGTO?
Get over it, besides 1483 is gonna change this game entirely...
~Switch
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[Free]Dop-erwt
Cadet
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 130
From: eindhoven, the netherlands
| Posted: 2004-09-17 11:10
i dont know about now but last time i played flux weapons were not that powerfull, you had to come really close and they didnt knock out systems, but the damage system got sorta turned on in 1.482 i heared so that might affect it(2 fluxes did about 8~10% hull damage to an AD from 60gu in 1.481)
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disfunction is a function
former fleets: -uepg- =IT= -IL-
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Grimith
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 09, 2003
Posts: 836
From: Your local future farm.
| Posted: 2004-09-17 12:46
Quote:
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On 2004-09-17 06:32, BackSlash {Absolut} wrote:
Grimith hacks.
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Uh-huh... You're trying to tell all of these people over here that I, a lover of Command Carriers, break the Rules of Conduct on a regular basis to hack into the ships of other people and make their systems go poofie?
I think I'm hurt, Backslash. Really, really hurt. 
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Demorian
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 06, 2001
Posts: 3406
From: Charlotte, North Carolina
| Posted: 2004-09-17 13:04
Not even going to read this whole thread, because if you've read one, you've read them all.
Welcome to the world of Flux balance.
-Dem
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Fornax
Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 906
From: Jacksonville, FL
| Posted: 2004-09-17 13:05
I have no idea if it's out of whack.
Even changed my mind about posting a long opinion (reason for edit)
The mitigating fact that I'm thinking about is all factions currently have access to the system.
Nax
[ This Message was edited by: Fornax on 2004-09-17 13:09 ]
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Rocki
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 13, 2002
Posts: 1029
| Posted: 2004-09-17 14:19
Let's review this...
1) ICC had uber AC's, sporting 2 reacs, 6 full torps and 5 heavy armors. There were many complaints, about uberness and unbalanced ships and whatnot, but most were ignored or laughed at. After all, the whiners themselves flew them in FA just like anyone else if they were ICC.
2) UGTO had 7-flux BDs. They were flying coffins if an unfluxed enemy jumped in or approached. There were complaints, but the risks attached to said ships limited their use, and the amount of pilots flying them *coughMalduccough*. However, in FA, flux was very popular, as the UGTO ships were about crap unmodded, not to mention being stuck with Ptorps. So a BC or BD or even an AD with torps/nukes and flux was about the only thing that could hold its own against something else. (I know there were exceptions, I'm generalizing)
3) K'luth ships, specifically dessies and gangs, had CL2k, reacs (or ECM for a gang), Full torps/sabots, cloak and autorepair. Many people complained, but what was the first thing to be heard in a new FA scenario? Right. "Let them build a HUB first, so we get CLs."
4) The Nuke was about the only weapon that people complained about and was NOT common use. I can almost count the amount of true nukers on my 2 hands, but the complainers were about everyone on the receiving end of our "Cheap Tricks".
So in conclusion:
1) AC got rebalanced (actually slot changes did this, but i still call it rebalanced). Complaints were now about weak ACs not being able to solo a dread anymore. Which they shouldn't be able to. People were used to it however, so they saw it as a huge nerf.
2) Flux was unwillingly nerfed due to a bug in the system damage code. People noticed, forgot about flux and EMP and the like. System damage is back, so flux works again, now it's uber cause they forgot what it was like.
3) Kluth dessies (and all other ships) lost CLs. Ruptors were still powerhogs, so people mounted ELF instead. This limited the damage potential of the K'luth, so they could no longer sit out a fight. People cried Nerf, but fortunately the K'luth still had cloak. ECM reactors were a viable option again due to inf limit mysteriously going bye bye, so people used them, and K'luth became a stealth faction again.
4) Nukes were limited to the mine slot, effectively limiting it to the heavier ICC ships, the UGTO minelayer frigate and the Scarab. On the ICC ships it's a nice extra. The UGTO minelayer frig is a coffin, so noone flies it. The scarab only has one mine slot, so it's just an extra too. The only viable minelayer is now the ICC minelayer dessie, which has always been a decent ship.
So what does this have to do with this post? My point is, the more complaints, the bigger the odds of a nerf. If they tone down flux to 10% of what it is now for example, the rest is overpowered again, so people ask to nerf the rest... in the end, we end up with everything Dread sized and smaller having only Gauss Cannons and Pulse Beams, while stations will have 1 (ONE) CL300.
Don't cry "Nerf this" and "Disable that". Offer constructive suggestions on how to BALANCE it.
End of DS History 101, please leave the classroom in an orderly fashion.
Rock out.
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Rae
Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 23, 2002
Posts: 284
From: 10 minutes away in a fast boat
| Posted: 2004-09-17 14:31
/me throws a big spitball at rock....
true dat though... good post..
i must say i haven't flown many uggy ships, or for that matter ever remember getting fluxed to any effect... but perhaps there should be a limit or setpoint that must be met before a flux would have any effect? eg: must be down to 50% shields before flux wave would damage systems.. or 50% armor for those without shields... meaning that those that love to flux must first close and pound the enemy with torps beams and cannons before being able to flux wave and damage systems. kind of a finishing weapon?
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2004-09-17 14:38
Rock has a point; namely, this isn't new.
However, we hear your complaints, and there will be a response, don't worry. We plan to make the flux have the damage of the current proton cruise missile (keep in mind armor values will increase slightly too) and increase its range slightly, while decreasing the falloff (more consistient damage over range).
In exchange, it will also damage the ship which carries it (keep in mind your ship is 0 range), and it will be an Engine slot, so you will be immobile while you use it. Additionally, it will completely fry any gadgets in your hold, as well as give splitting headaches to any Infantry. So you'll not be able to remount your engines, because they're fried, your infantry will be running into walls because they can't process their surroundings for the pain in their head, and the average cruiser's hull will drop by half, with no armor or shields. Oh, and it takes four times the power of the current disruptors.
Enjoy!
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AdmBito
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: October 04, 2002
Posts: 1249
From: Its hard out here for a pimp
| Posted: 2004-09-17 14:39
My good Rock, brilliant post. I agree, if we "balance" everything, pretty soon, this game is going to be two human sides with some random humans flying alien looking ships. There are ways to deal with flux, mines, CL2k dessies, and the like. Posting whine threads is one. Flying your ship the correct way is another. Think tactically, and perhaps you might not get fluxed to death. I say, fix the lag, and gimme my two reactor AC back.
Bito
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Rocki
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 13, 2002
Posts: 1029
| Posted: 2004-09-17 14:42
Contrary, Flux is a softener for early or mid-battle. For full effect, you wear out shields and armor, then fire your flux to kill/weaken a few systems, then proceed in destroying the target. In a TC/AC fight, back when flux was a regular weapon, a TC could get more and more advantage out of it, just by fluxing the enemy throughout the battle. Shame few people knew about that and instead went for overkill and mounted multiple on their ships. I'll take 5 torps and a flux over 5 flux and a torp any day.
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MoD
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 16, 2003
Posts: 112
From: CANADA
| Posted: 2004-09-17 14:54
Tkae out lfux, Take Fighters and missiles with it, ICC/UGTO miss-use them, so we misuse FLUX, Take them all or take nothin.
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