| Author |
Bring an end to SY jumping |
Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
|  Posted: 2004-06-21 03:30
this topic is something that ppl have mixed feelings for.
err...... this is an issue that people have different views of. thats better.
Gid says this is the only defence a shipyard has. other say this is cheating.
well let me put this little scenario for you.
ugto attack ICC system. in this system theres two SY's. the ugto take one before the ICC know whats hit them. so then a few ships pop out of the other shipyard. they go one by one to thier deaths by jumping in to the ugto armada. only say... half the icc ships havnt jumped in yet. the ugto jump to the sy planet and theres only half the defenders there. because the others are stuck with a timer.
the ugto bring trannys and start tranny rushing the SY. the icc defenders are picked off one by one.
now the timers up, so all icc spawn and the attack on the SY if failing, most of the icc ships are dieing however. the ugto rush more inf and the ICC cant do anything about it, becuase if they spawn in a different system it will take too long, and if they wait for thier timer to run down it will take to long. all icc are dead. half the ugto ships jump out and get inf, mass drop. do it again. timer runs out, icc spawn, planet caps.
icc either fight and die, or run. some die some run. the ugto now have two SY's and the ICC have none.
this scenario was thinkin there was a one minute timer on.
if youve read this far keep readign right?
now im assuming this but in 1482, the platforms will have a limit per planet. i say, to make Everyone happy, we do this.
in 1482, planets are allowed "X" number of platforms. the presence of a shipyard should "prioritize" a planet and allow that planet to have "X+Y" number of platforms.
the reason why i use "X" is because i dont know if there is a cap, and if there is the number that it happens to be.
the reason why i use "Y" is because i dont know how strong they are. lets say a defence platform is a lvl3 fighter base and a lvl3 def base in one. then each planet should only be allowed 4. and the SY planets a total of 6.
I Think overall planets are too easy to cap, so i think that these changes be made in 1482
UGTO Fighterbase:
-up to lvl 4, and you can choose* what type of fighters u want.
**UGTO Defence bases:
-Up to lvl 3, 3 beams, player controlled* what 3 types of beams.
*players must made this choice when the bases are first "commissiond" or done building
ICC Fighterbase:
-see UGTO fighterbase
**ICC Defence base:
-max lvl=2 player controlled what beams they use.
*same as ugto choices
** Defence bases no longer have Missles
UGTO Missle Silo:
-up to lvl 2, lvl 1 with two IT's, lvl2 with 3 IT's
ICC Missle Silo:
-same as UGTO
now this introduced many more variables into planets and thier defences. in a cluster having the inner planets with only fighterbases and the outer planets having missle silos would make cappign That much more interesting.
Edit: and shipyards now have a 30 second timer on them
its late, i dont know if this all makes sense, but do tell me your thoughts i wish to know.
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[ This Message was edited by: Meko on 2004-06-21 03:31 ]
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Ceridan
Cadet
Joined: May 24, 2003
Posts: 608
From: Canada
| Posted: 2004-06-21 08:55
or you could a timer to unspawn(using a SY to change ships) when that SY planet is under blocade. It will stop the, "im at 5% im gonna change ships" 
But since the timer is only activated when you press the ACTIVATE SY option... then new players or players that wishes to respawn wont be affected.
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DoctorCrobe
Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: April 18, 2003
Posts: 152
From: Mormonville USA
| Posted: 2004-06-21 09:30
That's not a bad idea, When a planet goes under Blockade, all production decreases, and the shipyard is shutdown.. not bad. I LIKE IT
Dr.Crobe
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Puny
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: March 10, 2004
Posts: 117
From: Gettysburg, PA
| Posted: 2004-06-21 11:31
No! Don't fix it!
I enjoy SY jumping, it's something like a game to me. To see how many times someone SY jumps before they just give up and use a supply ship!
Sometimes it gets into the big numbers, like 8 or 9 times! I reward those skillful and overly non-nuubish players with 7 psi cannons to the head.
-Puny
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2004-06-29 14:40
Waaaaa! Mommy! They keep spawning from the sy when we outnumber them 10 to 1. Waaaaaa! Give me a break. We can settle all this by not having sy at all, and everytime you die, you have to enter from the gate. But then, that removes an element from the game, don't it? If i take the time to modd/logg ships so i can spawn them, then I have them to pull out. And another thing; repeatedly spawning ships puts a massive strain on res. That is already factored into the game as a sort of failsafe.
Man, it seems so many of these players should just stay in the newbie server.
[ This Message was edited by: Azreal on 2004-06-29 14:43 ]
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Grimith
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 09, 2003
Posts: 836
From: Your local future farm.
| Posted: 2004-06-29 15:32
Obviously, there are a multitude of reasons of why people are for and against the quick shipyard use. Gideon stated the biggest reason why shipyards need to be the way they are (with a timer, you should only build shipyards in the middle of clusters... which seems to be a problem because new ships ram right into a planet inside the cluster. Standard planets would be stronger than shipyard planets). However, the fact that new ships can just be pulled out of the air at a rapid pace seems to introduce an... 'unrealistic' part in Darkspace (everything else is realistic, though... the alien faction... massive chemical lasers... crackling disruptor beams... Gaifen... [yes, there's mild sarcasm there]). As a matter of fact, I'll give you an example of this little incident in Ross 148, at the terran planet of Ross 3. ICC versus UGTO.
Now, the UGTO had about an army of fifty bajillion torpedo cruisers (there's too many to bloody name), a supply ship here or there, BackAlley and his bloody annoying assault destroyer, and... well... just... other stuff. The ICC... we either had their numbers or were slightly more or less, depending on the moment. Anyway, the UGTO decided that they were going to do the hokey pokey around Ross 3... and we inept ICC at the moment decided to screw getting out attacking ships and decided to pull out stations.
...Hm... Torpedo cruisers versus stations... gee... I wonder who might win this one...
Let's see who I saw pull out a station near Ross 3...
There was our beloved n00b, AdmBito.
There was our cheese loving... thing, JackSwift.
There was our... our... um... another thing... yeah... I'm not... gonna... mention his name... *whistles*
And, last but not least, me... Grimith J. Reaper.
Now... over the course of this assault... there was a lot of... let's just say... hide in the shipyard (which is kinda weird because, according to what the Darkspace officials say, stations are smaller than planets, but in Darkspace schematics, not only are stations bigger than planets, but they have the capability to go into a planet at 5% hull and stay there indefinitely). I didn't hide a station in Ross 3, but that doesn't mean that I wasn't guilty of shoving a dreadnought in there to pull out a supply ship or a support station to repair the good folks that were being shot with torpedoes.
There's a lot of people that may scratch their heads and say, "Wtf just happened here!?" While this game is obviously science fiction, it completely distorts what we perceive to be truth with this example. Is every station class ship equipped with a Destructificating Transmogrificator that reduces the station's size to a pebble before tractor beaming it at fifty thousand times the speed of a 56k modem into the shipyard? Pardon me for not knowing much about outer space, but I thought that the shipyard was mostly based outside of a planet than actually inside a planet.
I can't quite complain, though. You give me the tools that Faustus and the rest of the crew used to create this game, and I might have a Risk game working within six months. Or maybe a Choose Your Adventure game. I always liked reading those books... Regardless of my reading preferences, everything that I just wrote above this paragraph amounts to nothing simply because I don't have the capacity to do a better job. I'd stake my wallet (holding ten dollars and three moths [I hope someone gets that joke]) that the higher-ups here are doing something to make this game better.
So, there we have it. To me, the quick response of shipyard spawning is a necessary evil. It's not quite the best thing that could exist, but as Gideon put it, "Shipyard planets are the most . . . revolves around players defending them" (Gideon, Secret of E.H., Page 246 [I hope someone gets that joke, too]). And, hey, I think this is a lot better than when you had to spawn all the way back in your home system, only have a small clue as to where your faction might be fighting - if they're online, and travel twenty minutes to an enemy system.
Those are my pennies.
---EDIT: Slight typo on my part. My mistake.
[ This Message was edited by: Grimith J. Reaper on 2004-06-29 15:35 ]
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2004-06-29 17:25
grimith. i love you.
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little_chaoz(affe force)
Grand Admiral
Joined: June 08, 2002
Posts: 216
From: Stafford, VA
| Posted: 2004-06-29 18:10
Darnit grimith, i love u man.....that was beautiful....
little_chaoz(affe force)*LTC* wipes tears from his eyes
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Sops
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 490
| Posted: 2004-06-29 22:38
Quote:
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On 2004-06-20 17:19, Dempster wrote:
thats a load of bs, every planet in the mv has so many metals it would be days, WEEKS before that would happen
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metals may be easy to come by but heavy and cryo metals are still low on some planets
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Piotr-san
Chief Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: July 18, 2002
Posts: 385
From: Poland
| Posted: 2004-06-30 04:51
Quote:
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On 2004-06-20 19:35, Gideon wrote:
Shipyard planets are the most important planets in the game.
Because of this, they need to be the best defended.
Currently, the only way a planet can withstand a concerted effort by a single player attacking it, is to have one or more players defending it.
Because of this, all planet defense revolves around players defending them.
Because of this, the logically increased defensive capacity of a shipyard planet is expressed solely through the ability of players to respawn new ships there rapidly.
Include a shipyard timer, and you seriously reduce the ability for a shipayrd planet to defend itself, lowering it to the level of a standard planet, or less due to the resource occupation (power and pop) of the shipyard itself.
Basically, inducing a respawn timer on a shipyard planet will make shipyard planets very weak. It is because of this, that I have to oppose the inclusion of any limitation on the respawn capacity of a shipyard.
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I was too lazy to read the whole topic but the problem is one thing .Just imagine me taking a station ,starting shooting everyone around doing some damage then when I’m getting to 30 hull I’m changing to another station .I didnt lost anything but the attackers surly got some major damage and I can do that for thousands of times if you could just tell me what fleet could withstand assault of e.g. 20 stations one by one .Lets assume even more e.g. I’m a icc faction player and I can change in less then 5 seconds to a ship with a pulse shield and I’ve set troops on the planet to defend mode .What that gives me is
A) No one can bomb it
B) It’ll take quite a lot of troops to be caped if the player spawn e.g. 5 tranys loaded with 50 troops
Lest go even further .First lest consider
A)If its only 1 player , planet still could be caped by ferrying troops but only if the enemy has some ground in that system which isn’t such a bad thing since shipyard shouldn’t be capped first if they are defended by human palyers ,of course its strategically very tempting and easiest way to cap a whole system faster by doing it
B)Its defended by more then 3 players keeping respawning stations,dreads and tarnys loaded up with troops .In that case capping becomes almost impossible.
I don’t have any conclusions only one things bothers me its a 1 player able to kill a half of a large enemy fleet without loosing a single ship but that’s all .About tactical point of defending by 1 player respawning dreads,stations ,tranys and bombers every 10 seconds , ill keep it to the wise dev team to judge .I hope they will make a solution satisfying both sides.
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Dempster
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 668
| Posted: 2004-06-30 08:01
i still say ur all full of crap u never run out if ur smart enough to put a few well placed mines.. well unless ur in that system where umbrella cluster is cause theres only 1 hvy metal one in there..
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Ceridan
Cadet
Joined: May 24, 2003
Posts: 608
From: Canada
| Posted: 2004-06-30 11:45
I still think my idea is better
Putting an Unspawn timer would decrease the (oh im at 30% hull Ill take another station)
without altering the other use of the SY... AkA the Player Defence
Unspawn= Pressing twice on the Activate SY button
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Tiffy Rando
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 354
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2004-06-30 17:29
I think that ships should have to be commisioned at a shipyards... so if you are spawning a ship there from scratch, based on the class of ship it should take -x- amount of time.
If you are launching a previously docked ship, there should be no wait time.
However you should be able to commision multiple ships at the same time...
So you commision a destroyer, and go and fight in that while your dreadnought is being built.
Dreadnoughts and stations should take by far the longest times to build.
This way, attacking forces hav ea chance to begin their attacks, and have a minute or so to make use of their suprose advantage.
Then they begin to encounter light resistance, which gradually increases as larger ships are completed in the SY.
Ships that have been logged are the only thing I have no opinion on...
I don't know whether they should be spawned instanty, or whether they should have to be comissioned.
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2004-06-30 18:36
Kat u make me think of a game called "Conquest: Frontier Wars" where your could Watch the dreadnaughts and frigates being made in the shipyards.
i sujest we do this idea. A big ship like a station or a dread takes like 4 minuts to build. then cruisers 2 and destroyers 30 seconds. everythign else is instant spawn.
THIS way SY jumping would be impossible, its more realistic and you would see more destroyers and frigates flying about than dreads.
Also modded ships (logged only) take the same ammount of time. BUT docked ships are instant.
However i propose the garage have an increase in size so say 6 logged/docked ships and then 3 "temp" slots. every time u log off these slots get purged. that way u can have 6 modded ships but if u spawn a dessey to hold over till your dreads done building u dont have to delete a modded ship to do it.
supply ships instant spawn.... same with engineering and extractors. (there should be different slots for inf and cargo. that way ECM extractors woulndt work.
also trannys have a 30 seconds spawn time.
i dunno these r just thoughts, have at it
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