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Another Rant by Lith... LOL... wait... another? |
Demorian
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 06, 2001
Posts: 3406
From: Charlotte, North Carolina
|  Posted: 2004-03-13 12:30
Lith, you got spanked, dude.
-Dem
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Depthcharge
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: December 08, 2002
Posts: 1549
From: DFW, Tx
| Posted: 2004-03-13 13:10
w0rd. And Faustus: Your Post AND your Sig ROCK!
=D
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History Is Written By The Victors
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Bobamelius
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 2074
From: Ohio
| Posted: 2004-03-13 13:27
LOL just noticed F's sig... that's awesome!!
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[ This Message was edited by: Bobamelius on 2004-03-14 10:34 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2004-03-13 14:02
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| about flux. i didnt even know that it was a bug that it did system damage in previous versions |
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You mean flux wave? You saying it was a bug that flux waves caused system damage? I know flux cannons are strictly system damage, so are emp. It just seemed fittining that the wave would do it too. Weird.
And as far as Kluth not being in the MV now: yes it's true. I try to be active in there as Kluth when I'm not working. But it's hard. We really did get the shaft with this patch, it's hard to understand that if you don't play Kluth.
As has been said, modding is one of the most fun aspects of the MV. Kluth in .481 lost basically all their modding potential. Most we can do now really is swap elf for ruptors, or sabot for psi missiles. That's boring.
Not only that, but we're STILL forced to use lots of ecm to keep our cloaks working. That resulted in us using our new ecm boats a few days ago (those extractors you see now). See without ecm we are sitting ducks. Kluth can't handle non-cloaked combat, ships are too fragile. We RELY on cloak for hit-and run (or should). Sustained combat just is not possible.
So add these together: Kluth became very boring to play due to lack of modding, ecm is still necessary, the universal problem of needing stations to launch an invasion, and you might see why Kluth aren't really played now.
BUT...and this is a big BUT...it's all temporary! These problems are only .481's problems. From what I heard, .482 solve just about all of them for Kluth. And I've also heard that most Kluth are gonna be in beta as soon as .482 gets there. So whatever problems we have now, we all have to realize that it's only temporary. Kluth in particular have to realize it. For now, we use our ecm boats, our regular disruptors, and our torpedoes. But .482 gives us more goodies and modding options including but not limited to: heavy disruptors, heavy AM torps, heavy psi missiles (shocker missles), heavy psi cannons, light disruptors, light psi missiles (shredder missiles), and more! Think of all the dfifferent weapon slots that is! Think of the modding possibilities!
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Tbone
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 21, 2001
Posts: 1756
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2004-03-13 14:47
Quote:
| They required courage, coz they would screw u over and kill your own system if not careful), skill, believe me, setting up the enemy to fly into your mines was not easy, especially real vet players, and even more especially vet players on ICC with pulse wave.
But more than that, they required a certain degree of tactical awareness and put an end to the n00bish method we call space bar mashing. Towards the end, alot of us only used mines, as they were different. Any idiot could use torps, ok, u had to be half descent to det properly, but for the true connoisseur of this game, Mines were a much needed feature! |
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You forgot to mention the part that mines were only fun to use as K'luth because of auto-repair. Even if you mined yourself and an enemy ship while flying right under it, your systems would be back up well before even one of the enemy's were.
Try to tell me different. Happened to me too many times to count.
Mining on K'luth takes about as much skill as using the space-bar on the Assault Cruiser (unless you are using AM Mines of course). If you want to display your skill as a minelayer, do it on the human faction's where we actually have to worry about friendly fire from our own mines.
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Lith Ragond
Cadet
Galactic Navy
Joined: November 25, 2001
Posts: 1854
| Posted: 2004-03-13 14:54
whoa, make a quick post before ya gotta run and look what happens...
/me tries to sit down but is kinda tender...
Faust, I very well think you got revenge on me for my rant, those first 6 words in your post made my stomach clench (which in turn forced what was in my stomach DOWN into my small intestine whicn in turned pushed everything in there into my large and... well, let's say i ruined a pair of pants).
I do admit, some of what I said was in a furstrated state, and while it may seem like I dont appreciate what you are doing, I do. I know you are trying (to the best of your ability and time constraints with other stuff goin on in your life), to fix the lag issue. And I know that the .481 server code is something beyond complicated, and you are trying to switch things up so it all fits together right. i did NOT intend to discredit (or whatever) anything of this that you have done/are doing.
My single tiff is that we were always told .481 = servers, .482 = balance. but i think we've gotten a few things in .481 that very well could have waited for .482, AKA the slot changes. I was very happy with how things worked before it was all changed around. i'm not sure WHAT the devs intend with faction specific technology, and yeah, i will say i am kinda dissapointed in the changes to flux beam/wave. but i think some "balance" things were rushed that put each faction at a very odd, place which many people are finding to be a little... freaky? and combined with the MV changes and SY stuff, a lot of people are on edge.
as for Sony and EA... well, they can go hump eachother for all i care.
also, thanks for the first 3 paragraphs of your reply, it definently puts me at ease.
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2004-03-13 15:00
Quote:
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On 2004-03-13 12:25, Donkey Magic wrote:
Dark 'I miss my Mine Shell' Sworde
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word up! there are other challenges tho, too.
i just wish the game performance would be better. i cant really play with a higher object count in the air, getting the fps drop from hell in virtually every battle. that really screws you over.
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Southpark
Admiral
Joined: February 25, 2004
Posts: 132
From: Texas
| Posted: 2004-03-13 15:54
You refer to the prophecy of the patch that will bring balance
to the Force. You believe it is this patch?
Muahahaha!
Anyhow, even if Faustus doesn't read this, excellent job on a unique game that has perservered through the years. It only gets better, even though there are bumps along the way.
Although some "guidelines" on what appropriate behavior in the MV may need to be reinforced(hammered into heads).
(seeing a lot more potty mouth going around).
Keep up the fun! (btw you need to come play the MV more Faustus, had fun shooting at you the other night hehe)
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JackSwift
Cadet
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: October 30, 2002
Posts: 1806
From: Where the Sun dont Shine (Seattle-ish)
| Posted: 2004-03-13 15:57
Quote:
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On 2004-03-13 14:47, T "Sugar Buns" Bone wrote:
You forgot to mention the part that mines were only fun to use as K'luth because of auto-repair. Even if you mined yourself and an enemy ship while flying right under it, your systems would be back up well before even one of the enemy's were.
Try to tell me different. Happened to me too many times to count.
Mining on K'luth takes about as much skill as using the space-bar on the Assault Cruiser (unless you are using AM Mines of course). If you want to display your skill as a minelayer, do it on the human faction's where we actually have to worry about friendly fire from our own mines.
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You forgot the part Tbone that the kluth miners ALSO had 4/5 nasty close range beams. If you ran out of mines as kluth, no problem, just waste em with cl2k. Human faction miners had none of that... just a piddly little cl2k and some pulse beams. :/
The only time I would near-suicide myself by laying mines under an enemy ship is if it was the last one in the battle and my friends were coming to kill it before it jumped out.
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Azure.co.uk
Cadet
Joined: December 01, 2002
Posts: 355
| Posted: 2004-03-13 16:12
Quote:
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You forgot to mention the part that mines were only fun to use as K'luth because of auto-repair. Even if you mined yourself and an enemy ship while flying right under it, your systems would be back up well before even one of the enemy's were.
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Getting hit by 5 mines will smack all your system to 0, including this Auto Repair, not to mention our low armoured ships. The reason why we survived during the odd times of mining ourself was because we always had spare AME in the cargo. A quick refit and we're flying off and dodging while we wait for our AMJD to come back up and asking for help and actually getting some help.
When I was ICC back when Darksworde/CC entered thier mining phase, I would always have spare AME on my ACs. A extremely quick refit and running for dear life after getting mined normally would save my butt.
Quote:
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Mining on K'luth takes about as much skill as using the space-bar on the Assault Cruiser (unless you are using AM Mines of course). If you want to display your skill as a minelayer, do it on the human faction's where we actually have to worry about friendly fire from our own mines.
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Like I said above, theres not much difference mining in a "human" ship or in a k'luth ship, spare AME were all that was needed...
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-Viper-
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 26, 2001
Posts: 55
From: UK
| Posted: 2004-03-13 16:57
Fluxs only seem to do noticable system damage if the target has no shields or armor, so your directly hitting the hull, also system self repair seems to have been speeded up a lot since the patch.
Nuke mines dont seem to do much at all anymore 
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K'luth!
[ This Message was edited by: -Viper- on 2004-03-13 16:58 ]
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Octurion
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: November 03, 2001
Posts: 357
From: Upstate New York, USA
| Posted: 2004-03-13 17:44
OK, maybe I should add I am on the side of the miner. I want mines back too and HATE only having tropedos and missiles as an option now.
HOWEVER I am not going to whine about it and will find a new fix for my Darkspace addiction. 
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Sandals
Fleet Admiral
Agents
Joined: January 21, 2002
Posts: 2001
From: Redmond,WA,USA
| Posted: 2004-03-13 18:17
Quote:
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Getting hit by 5 mines will smack all your system to 0, including this Auto Repair, not to mention our low armoured ships. The reason why we survived during the odd times of mining ourself was because we always had spare AME in the cargo. A quick refit and we're flying off and dodging while we wait for our AMJD to come back up and asking for help and actually getting some help.
When I was ICC back when Darksworde/CC entered thier mining phase, I would always have spare AME on my ACs. A extremely quick refit and running for dear life after getting mined normally would save my butt.
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Umm-mm. It would only save you if you lived long enough to get your JD up. Not likely, as it needs to get to at least 50%.
The entirity of 1.480 Auto Repair was immune to damage, that's a none-starter. Your low armor doesn't mean much at all with a shell (cough) and the fact that a single beam salvo in close killed almost all the defenses an ICC ship puts up.
You put in an AME after blowing all your systems in a K'luth ship. Big deal! You'd be up and moving again in 20 seconds anyways! Your beam weapons would be fireable or at least charging by then. The Human ship, meanwhile, even if it put in an AME (like you), would be working on repairing its JD. Your destroyer now turns and beats the crap out of it.
It's happened more times than not.
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Specterx
Fleet Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: December 09, 2001
Posts: 547
From: Virginia/California
| Posted: 2004-03-13 19:27
Quote:
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Let's face it.... some of you, and you know who you are... are going to complain no matter what I do to make things better. So LEAVE, your negative attitude is NOT wanted. Your attitude is making the game unfun for new players who might actually like the game, but after listening to your complaints just leave with a bad taste in their mouth.
Quite frankly, it's hard enough to do this magnitude of a project by myself with a small team of volenteers (Thanks Gideon, Chromix, Trag, Shigernafy, Griffin, and everyone else, please forgive me I didn't mention your name)...but this type of post actually hurts my feelings and makes me dispair somewhat.
I'm sure EA or Sony would be glad to have more of your money... go play "Star Wars Galaxies"...
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If you and the rest of the dev team think DS is better now than it was 2 years ago, then keep doing what you're doing. It's keeping the long-term players who've been here for years that will keep the game alive.
[ This Message was edited by: Specterx on 2004-03-13 19:28 ]
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2004-03-13 21:26
I would like to point out, to those who claim that K'luth are just as vulnerable to their own mines...
Take any ICC/UGTO ship, say, the Assault Cruiser as a random example. 3 engines, 1 jumpdrive, 2 special slots, 6 heavy weapons, 2 light beams, 1 heavy beam, and 5 armor. A total of 20 gadgets, 15 of which are susceptible to system damage. If the Assault Cruiser hits a minefield, and its systems are all damaged to being completely offline, then it has to repair them ONE AT A TIME. Each device takes 100 seconds to repair. That's 1500 seconds, or 25 minutes, for the ship to fully repair all of its engines, weapons, and reactors.
Any given K'luth ship will be back to 100% functionality in one minute, 40 seconds at the most. The Autorepair fixes EVERY system on the ship at once, at the same rate ICC/UGTO repair one. And if that wasn't enough, the first device on the repair que fixes itself as well, giving it twice as much total repair speed as a device on a human ship.
The mine-modified ships in 1.480 were HORRIBLY unbalanced. As far as I know, they will be fixed to an extent in 1.482, but do not expect a return of the nuke mine AC or Drainer.
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