| Author |
ICC pulse defense bases are way too efficient! |
Malduc{-GTN-}
Cadet
Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 544
From: New Jersey
|  Posted: 2004-02-26 20:29
Heres something I've found when bombing shields. I took down an ICC planet with bomber cruisers. You get yourself two bombers, and one sup, and stream bomb the planet. Clouding does little with limited bombs now. Like shig said, this is no longer a "One person cap everything" game. You guys are gonna have to start usuing teamwork like the rest of DS.
Malduc
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Raiders
Cadet
Joined: December 28, 2001
Posts: 353
From: Cali
| Posted: 2004-02-26 20:42
Well dward in current MV im happy to be in a group of 3ppl total no matter the ships. And if this beta does cause everyone to join MV and leave the senerios empty you cant afford to loose those 2 combats to bombers.
The point of the bomber cruiser and the bomber dread is to be able to go in and with time take out a planet. Not to be more worthless than a bomber frig in FA, unless you have 3-6 of them.
And wasnt this system suposed to make bombing easier so people didnt NEED to cloud bomb, not to make bombing impossible. I'm not saying back to the good old days of wiping a planet in 5min and moving on, but when you get out the full allowable amount of bombs shouldnt you expect to at least take down the shields if not damage a structure (and this is all based on the weakest possible shield level of 100%).
Plus with the 32 inf limit, the rotation of the planet itself, and increadibly better planet PD, the deck is already stacked against any small group of players let alone the one guy. Huge fleet actions are great wish they happened more, but to many times its you and maybe 1-2 others trying to move on a system.
Don't even try to say drop troops either. It takes a min of 4 ships to cap a planet (not counting stations but thats not much better with the 12 inf limit) and thats if 3 are trannys, and ALL inf land.
How about the multipul trips tactic you say. Well that doesnt work either now with the rate that inf move from green to veteran. By the time you get outside the dictor field jump to a friendly load up and get back all those inf are back, at veteran level and the survivers are up a notch to hardened.
Now I will admit it MAY be an option on a heavy inf planet with a 4min timer instead of 2 but that also means they are hardier troops so you may not take out as many in the first place, but I haven't gotten to fully test that out yet.
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Dwarden
Admiral
CHIMERA
Joined: June 07, 2001
Posts: 1072
From: Czech Republic
| Posted: 2004-02-26 21:06
i agree troops train too fast ...
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2004-02-26 21:26
Quote:
| hmm why one bomber should level planet?
try it with 3 bombers ... |
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Well because it only had two lvl 1 defense bases? That SHOULD mean it's totally vulnerable. I mean geez, if two lvl 1 bases are enough and require teamwork to get through, what does more than two mean which is the norm? Or higher level bases and a shield which is also the norm? Listen I've seen my fully built Kluth planets with lvl 3 bases all around get destroyed by one bomber in no time at all. And I do the same to UGTO planets in my advanced carrier...fully built UGTO planets can and do fall to me.
I don't know if everyone's grasping this properly. I'm not talking about a fully built ICC planet. I'm talking about a planet that was left with only two defense bases. In live version that planet is just bait and screaming to be bombed/capped.
And because I'm not talking about a fully built planet left with only two defenses, and I saw what those defenses did, I'm safely and correctly assuming that pulse beam defense bases are too much.
If you guys haven't actually tried bombing these new ICC defense bases in the beta yet, try it! Seriously, it's not the same and it may shock to you see how good they are. It's insane. I've been bombing mostly UGTO planets as they're connected to Kluth systems and don't require long jumps or wormholes. Now that ICC are connected as well I can see the discrepancy and it's too much.
Go bomb Andy's Planet in BD in beta. Bring a supply. Time how long it takes to penetrate and hit the surface. Then do the same to a Kluth or UGTO planet. You'll see.
EDIT: and Raider is correct in not being able to drop. Not only do you have to make sure that most of your troops actually land (just about impossible with the planets I'm talking about), but if it FAILS, all you did was make the remaining, unbombable defenders hardened/elite. Multiple trips just exaggerate the problem. I've tried it, I've had two full transports and a full station fail to cap a planet. And I can't get more than those 3 ships cuz not enough people play.
EDIT #2: Bio bombs used to have a speed around 11-12. That was just slow enough to set up a cloud of 20-24 bombs and to stay with them.
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[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2004-02-26 21:35 ]
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Sandals
Fleet Admiral
Agents
Joined: January 21, 2002
Posts: 2001
From: Redmond,WA,USA
| Posted: 2004-02-27 00:26
Sparkle...
ICC DBs are great against Bombs, but they're just bloody useless at shooting down infantry Try having infantry in front of your bomb cloud so that the infantry soak hits.
Also 3 ICC bombers (9 MIRVs) were sufficient to break the defences of Exthra when it revolted, and it was pretty heavily defended.
I agree you arn't gonna get anywhere with 12 bio bombs. 
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Beast
Cadet
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: May 27, 2002
Posts: 345
From: Wouldnt you like to know
| Posted: 2004-02-27 03:42
Hmmm lets look at what you Said. >> >>Well because it only had two lvl 1 defense bases? That SHOULD mean it's totally vulnerable.<<<<<<<
1. Ok If that was the case why build those Defences in the first place???Somthing is SPOSE toBe better then Nothing.
2. TEAM WORK TEAM WORK TEAM WORK What you think every person in DS should be a one man fleet??think about it should 1 little cruiser be able to take a whole planet????? CMON.
3. Watch Star ship Troopers and you will see what it should take to take any planet.
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[ This Message was edited by: {Beast} on 2004-02-27 03:43 ]
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slice
Admiral
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 164
From: UK
| Posted: 2004-02-27 03:50
It is a WHOLE PLANET. it should be difficult to cap. 1 ship capping a whole planet is a bit suss, and with the increase in numbers in the MV it shouldnt be too much of a problem
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Spaceflower (Swe)
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: December 28, 2002
Posts: 73
From: Sweden
| Posted: 2004-02-27 04:46
Well, it's acctually nice to hear that ICC PD works, cause nothing else on those bases seems to do 
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2004-02-27 07:17
Alright alright, so the problem is starting to become a Kluth problem only I'm seeing. Bios are all but useless what with their long recharge time and no damage to buildings. I can see every single Kluth player modding mirvs as it will be necessary. EDIT: how they gonna mod mivrs? I don't know; they aren't buildable currently.
You know, all the heavily defended planets in the last beta mv before the reset were taken by Kluth with mirvs right? Nobody used bios as they just didn't do the job.
I still have yet to test a basic bio cloud from far range (beyond 500gu and not targeting anything but the center of the planet) to see what effect it can have on population. I need that distance to create a large enough cloud as I can barely get 12 bombs out when targeting infantry. If I can kill off significant pop then it may disable enough defenses to allow infantry bombing and invasion. See that's what the other Kluth are doing with mirvs. They start at around 900-1k away, only target the planet, and launch a cloud of hell that breaks through anything. I can do that with bios and see what effect they have (they're supposed to have a good effect on pop I hear).
But nothing will convince me that ICC defense bases aren't overefficient No way two bases should defend a planet that well. Heck, UGTO planets with 14 lvl 1 bases are easy compared to ICC planets with 2! Tell me that's 'working as intended'?
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[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2004-02-27 07:43 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2004-02-27 07:46
Quote:
| 2. TEAM WORK TEAM WORK TEAM WORK What you think every person in DS should be a one man fleet??think about it should 1 little cruiser be able to take a whole planet????? CMON. |
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I've SEEN one little cruiser take a whole planet! A bomber cruiser. That's what I'm saying. And the planet in question was fully built with defense base III's all around it. I watched it demolish and cap one of my planets right before I tried Ahwa and Andy's Planet.
If that fully built planet falls easily to a bomber, but an ICC planet with only two lvl 1's doesn't, then there's a problem. It's a pulse beam problem.
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Serapis
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 09, 2002
Posts: 73
From: Europe
| Posted: 2004-02-27 08:21
I think it's good the way it is now.
First:
No more one man fleets capping / bombing the MV in one night.
Second.
It should be very hard to cap or devastate a planet. So U should need a FLEET, not 3 peops who are bored
Third:
Now peple can concentrate on combat and tactics, which is the intenton of the MV
Fourth:
Now it takes much longer to build a planet farely well. So it deserves to not being that easy to cap
Fifth:
Nice work dev-Team
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Barthezzz
Fleet Admiral
Joined: May 31, 2001
Posts: 5630
From: The Netherlands
| Posted: 2004-02-27 08:38
Quote:
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On 2004-02-27 03:50, slice wrote:
It is a WHOLE PLANET. it should be difficult to cap. 1 ship capping a whole planet is a bit suss, and with the increase in numbers in the MV it shouldnt be too much of a problem
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What increase?
Anyway, i do feel 3 people who are bored should be able to capture planets.
Why? Because thats the size of the average Active DarkSpace Fleet.
Heck some larger fleets peek at 5 or 6 people online at once but the smaller ones are lucky if they can get 3 members to play.
As much as the "Huge fleets should be needed to capture planets" is a cool idea, its gonna work.
DarkSpace does NOT have numbers.
And you know what? The numbers going to drop even further after the patch. The Scenario servers will become a lot less playable, quite a number of people play Ds for these servers.
That and Ds wont magicly get a huge playerbase, over time with advertisement it will grow, assuming of course the new players will actually be able to do something with their newbie ships.
Which they cant atm and the balance patch is still 2 patches away...
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[ This Message was edited by: Barthezzz on 2004-02-27 08:42 ]
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slice
Admiral
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 164
From: UK
| Posted: 2004-02-27 11:08
I was under the impression that the scenario servers would be axed... Hence the increase in numbers
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Gideon
Cadet
Joined: September 14, 2001
Posts: 4604
From: Oregon, USA
| Posted: 2004-02-27 14:25
Question:
Have any of us tried dropping troops near defense bases, domes, or power plants, and setting them to "raze"?
Yes, the troops will probably fail in taking the planet, but they can still demolish buildings. Perhaps enough to let your bombs get through?
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Octurion
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: November 03, 2001
Posts: 357
From: Upstate New York, USA
| Posted: 2004-02-27 16:51
1) systems fall to fast....IMO it should take days, if not a week,not mins/hours to cap a system.
2) It should take no less then 5 ships to cap. This will fix number 1.
Quote:
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On 2004-02-27 08:38, Barthezzz wrote:
Anyway, i do feel 3 people who are bored should be able to capture planets.
Why? Because thats the size of the average Active DarkSpace Fleet.
Heck some larger fleets peek at 5 or 6 people online at once but the smaller ones are lucky if they can get 3 members to play.
............
DarkSpace does NOT have numbers.
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well, to this I say if there are only three of you looking for fun then go pick fight and have a small battle with the enemy but you dont need or should be able to cap.
Also this game does have factons not just fleets. You want to cap then go find an other fleet of 3 people from your faction. This game is also about team play with the whole facton. And i do think you could find 5+ active player on a faction even with DS low player base.
I do like the idea that fleets should have more control over their faction but I dont think a fleet should be able to cap a whole faction or be the whole faction on their own (which has happen before in this game).
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