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Forum Index » » Developer Feedback » » Clan, Planets and their Governance: Economics and Attitudes

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Clan, Planets and their Governance: Economics and Attitudes

Juxtapose
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners

Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 1308
From: Give me your bullets!

Posted: 2004-02-23 08:56

This sounds a bit involved, but in reality, what I am suggesting (except for the revamping of the Credit system) is really just the addition of a few extra formulas to add the complexity of Planet Management...and to add to the fun.

First necessary addition: Planet Modifiers

Presently, in game everything translates as 100%.

Trade This modifier would effect both the export and import of goods between planets. If planet A has 100% Trade and so does planet B and Planet A exports 100 Metals, then Planet B receives 100 Metals.

If Planet A has 75% Trade and exports 100 metals to Planet B, which has 75% Trade, then this happens: 25% of the metals leave Planet A and are lost. 75 metals remain to be received by Planet B, which then looses 25% of the imports. The end result is 56 metals able to be used by the players building on Planet B. So, trade is a measure of efficiency.

Production This Modifier would effect the length of time a structure, Modification, research or ship would take to be completed. If Sabots take 1 minute to build on a regular planet (100%) then they would take 1:15 to build on Planet A if Planet A only has 75% production.

Attitude This modifier is how a populace reacts to being attacked and being ruled. If a regular planet, once invaded, will be conquered once 2/3 of the planet is taken, then on Planet A, where the attitude is presently 75%, it would take 25% less time and area to conquer the planet.

This is also for Revolts. The higher the attitude the less chance of revolt. Attitudes go up in % over time if there is excess food and friendlies in the system. They go down in percentages if the planet gets bombed or starved. Planets with a large number of ships in orbit, Barracks on the ground or a certain percentage of better than Veteran Infantry are much less likely to revolt, even if the modifier is -100%. Basically, if there is a division of battle hardened, crazy-eyed Marines camped in your town, would you really stage an uprising?

Next add to the game Base Faction Governments This is the unchangeable default modifier for any planet being ruled by one of the factions.

UGTO Imperial: Strong Central Government, weak Planet Government. By itself, Trade efficiency is 110%, planet attitude is 75%, production is 100%.

ICC Confederation: Weak Central Government, strong Planet Government. Trade efficiency is 75%, planet attitude is 110% and production is 100%

K’Luth Hive: Equal Central and Planet Government. Trade is 100%, planet attitude is 125% (they like being bugs) and production is 75%.

Then comes, my favorite, System Government. The Government Type for a planet is chosen by the clan that conquers the planet. If it is a Clanless player, then the planet reverts to the Default Government system for the faction. When you conquer a planet, by accessing the Planet Detail Screen, and depending on the Faction your Clan is in, a drop down box will be available from which you can choose a variety of System Governments.

Some examples, but honestly, I am not going to bother thinking of many. They would be the normal: Good vs. Bad benefits. Give up some trade for more Production, etc…

Forced Labor Government (UGTO and K’luth only): You establish a series of Labor Camps where political dissenters are interned to further your cause. Mortality rates are high, but so are production rates! +25% Production, -15% Attitude, mines produce 15% faster, population increases as -25%.

Capitalistic: +15% Trade, +10% Production, -10% population increase, +10% Attitude, population requires 1.5 food per number (Rich, fat and happy)

Agrarian: +10% Food Trade, -10% all other trade. -10% Production. Food produces 3 time faster, Attitude +10%.

Egalitarian: +20% Attitude, +5 Production, -10% Trade

Planet A is captured by the UGTO. The Base planet Modifiers for UGTO are: 110% Trade, 75% Attitude, 100% Production. But now, under the new regime of: Forced Labor the modifiers are: 125% Production, 110% Trade, 50% Attitude (better keep a lot of troops around), but lots of minerals!

---------PART 2 - - -Clan Economics- - -

Now, this all was inspired by Baron’s post on a Fleet Vault. It made me think of the importance of Clan Economics and tying this all in with one other System Government type…which I will get to…

Owning a planet should have an economic responsibility. Your Clan comes with a Bank Account. Your Clan makes a certain % on all planets it owns. The better a planet is managed, the higher the percentage and bigger the income. If a planet is set up poorly and is not working, then your Clan account looses money. If you loose too much money and can no longer afford the upkeep of a planet that is not making money, it reverts to being a Clanless planet, but still your faction.

do away with large payouts on Missions Completed

Make getting credits contingent on belonging to a Clan and making sure you have an empire to support your ships. The Clan account can be dolled out to players…players can add to it to prop up an ailing empire to not loose the planets…but also:

Ownership of Clanless planets of the same faction can be purchased. A bit of a mark-up on what its value is, though. Once you own it, you can do as you please with it.

Planets your clan owns can be sold to other Clans, in your own faction, but only for the amount the computer deems them worth….a small barren would fetch around $4 million.

The Payout

The Crux of this whole system revolves around one form of System Government that any clan could choose once it conquers a planet.

Plunder: The planet and its population are exploited for Hundreds of Thousands of Credits. Your invading troops burn and ransack, rape and pillage. Art, valuables, gold fillings and gems are taken to add to your Clan’s coffers. Cities are smashed and looted. Livestock is slaughtered in the field alongside the people who tend them. When you have finally squeezed the last drop out of the planet (it takes 30 minutes to completely plunder a Large Planet), any survivors of your crimes lay huddled in dark caves.

If the planet has been completely plundered…as in, you don’t loose it to another faction, then the planet becomes neutral. All trade, metals, excess is lost. You can re-colonize it, but remember to bring enough metals to build a hub. But did I mention that your clan Coffers swell by millions of Credits!?

Drawbacks to Genocidal Policies?

Probably should have some...

1. By plundering a planet in enemy space, you automatically bolster the attitude of the other planets which makes them more difficult to capture.

2. Plundering a planet causes the attitude of friendly planet in that system to decline substantially...compassionate losers!

3. You can only Plunder newly conquered planets. After a certain amount of time under your rule, the Plunder option is no longer allowed.

So, If my clan owns Earth, one day I can't snap and slaughter the populance just for giggles.

So...In Conclusion

With such modifiers in place...mind you, the rates are examples not perfect ideas, a whole slew of nifty things could be added to the game.

New buildings can become available for certain types of System Goverments. Buildings that help boost Morale, Trade, Production %'s.

Fleet/Clan importance would increase. Planets would really be important. Managing an Empire would require more than building a planet and making sure trade is set-up. And it would give Clan Admin's a lot more responsibility than managing a Forum and recruitment.

Wow…that was a bit longer than I had anticipated.

[ This Message was edited by: Juxtapose on 2004-02-23 10:56 ]
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I type with the tongues of my enemies, ascend from the backs of my friends, ignore the plight of innocents, and dance on the graves of my gods

AdmiralChaos {FA}
Fleet Admiral

Joined: January 02, 2004
Posts: 443
From: US - Wisconsin - Oshkosh - Mah Basement

Posted: 2004-02-23 09:38

Quote:

On 2004-02-23 08:56, Juxtapose wrote:
Next add to the game Base Faction Governments This is the unchangeable default modifier for any planet being ruled by one of the factions.

UGTO Imperial: Strong Central Government, weak Planet Government. By itself, Trade efficiency is 110%, planet attitude is 75%, production is 100%.

ICC Confederation: Weak Central Government, strong Planet Government. Trade efficiency is 75%, planet attitude is 110% and production is 100%

K’Luth Hive: Equal Central and Planet Government. Trade is 100%, planet attitude is 125% (they like being bugs) and production is 75%.

I like the base idea, but I would like to see that vary from if the planet is Low,okay or high but only by like 5-15 percent

But everything else sounds very nice and id love to see it happen to the game.
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Honour is ALL!

JackSwift
Cadet
Sundered Weimeriners

Joined: October 30, 2002
Posts: 1806
From: Where the Sun dont Shine (Seattle-ish)

Posted: 2004-02-23 11:22

Nice work Jux! Sounds like a really good concept to build on.
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TheEvilGriffin
Cadet

Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 897

Posted: 2004-02-23 15:52

Impresive Jux, i got tell ya when i first saw your name at the top i was rdy for a good laugh, definetly not what was expected.

Great idea, i like it a lot. I dont know if such a system could be put in place but imo it would be great addition, with modification and changes here and there of course as needed. Could tie this into the Influence system. Oh the possabilities.......

keep them comeing!

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Ascension(Purge)
Admiral

Joined: March 04, 2003
Posts: 194

Posted: 2004-02-23 16:08

But...but...but...Jux wrote it?
Weres all the laughs!?
The only thing here is good ideas!
Good Ideas! Someones gonna pay!
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UGTO: Because we remember honor...

The Monty
Cadet

Joined: October 07, 2002
Posts: 967

Posted: 2004-02-23 16:22

Quote:

do away with large payouts on Missions Completed

Make getting credits contingent on belonging to a Clan and making sure you have an empire to support your ships.

These 2 points would grind the fleetless player's incomes into the ground, only part I would have a problem with.
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Obesa cantavit. Diabolus fecit, ut id facerem.

MrSparkle
Marshal

Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle

Posted: 2004-02-23 16:52

Well, biggest problem is that trade effiiciency in the MV won't matter at all as the planets will still have an enormous overabundance of every resource anyway.

But I like it, I like the thought behind it. I always wanted a system similar to Civ 3's system for newly conquered cities, only in terms of DS planets. Basically, a captured planet is unhappy (low morale), has a chance of revolting, and may have random buildings stop production, for a set time after capture. For example, no human planet would assimilate to Kluth society right away and would want to return to it's own faction. Even UGTO to ICC would be the same. But after a while, the planet and it's inhabitants inevitably become the conqueror's race and/or government, and the problems cease.
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral

Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059

Posted: 2004-02-23 18:16

Did anybody else notice a word not allowed in their by the RoC? (italized in this quote)

Quote:

On 2004-02-23 08:56, Juxtapose wrote:
Plunder: The planet and its population are exploited for Hundreds of Thousands of Credits. Your invading troops burn and ransack, rape and pillage. Art, valuables, gold fillings and gems are taken to add to your Clan’s coffers. Cities are smashed and looted. Livestock is slaughtered in the field alongside the people who tend them. When you have finally squeezed the last drop out of the planet (it takes 30 minutes to completely plunder a Large Planet), any survivors of your crimes lay huddled in dark caves.

Hurry jux! change it!
_________________

Juxtapose
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners

Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 1308
From: Give me your bullets!

Posted: 2004-02-24 07:23

Quote:

On 2004-02-23 15:52, TheEvilGriffin wrote:
Impresive Jux, i got tell ya when i first saw your name at the top i was rdy for a good laugh, definetly not what was expected.

Ouch...

I think some of you need to peruse the Development Feedback Suggestions Forum, where, not looking too hard, you will find a whole slew of modestely brilliant, equally well thought out, ideas.

With the exception of the: Juxtapose Fires Torpedoes from his Assault Cruiser Crusier Suggestion. The Anti-ergonomic weapons, ie. Pain in my Assaulter and the Carpal Tunneller proved difficult to code...and the one where I said you could all go straight to HELL

but you don't have to look too hard for that one...

To comment on the Fleetless folks:

Credits could still be earned, just not in the same, overwhelming amounts. It would just be an added incentive to encourage relatively new players to join Fleets. Players like Sheng and Josef, may God be Praised, can probably find alternative methods of raising cash, if they even need it still.

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I type with the tongues of my enemies, ascend from the backs of my friends, ignore the plight of innocents, and dance on the graves of my gods

Tbone
Grand Admiral

Joined: July 21, 2001
Posts: 1756
From: Vancouver

Posted: 2004-02-24 12:42

In beta, I can actually make a fair number of credits trading resources and selling those dropped from enemy ships/space monsters. I can get a transport, fly to Pluto, load up on Urdanium, and sell it for something like few ten thousand credit profit.
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Bad_Skeelz
Cadet

Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 359
From: The Lobby

Posted: 2004-02-24 14:05

I heartily protest anything that would curtail the incomes of Independent/Fleetless players like myself. Some of us don't want to belong to a little sub-faction and fly around with a stupid tag. Some of us are loyal to the only real factions in the game and we shouldn't have to bend to the will of some bigshot fleet admin to fight for our faction.
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I didn't say they were lobsters, I said they reminded me of lobsters.

-Excerpt from Vice Admiral Skeelz's court-martial regarding the malignant boiling and eating of K'luth prisoners of war.

Juxtapose
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners

Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 1308
From: Give me your bullets!

Posted: 2004-02-24 15:16

Cleary what Bad_Skeetz needs is a strong authority figure lording over him, telling him what to fly and where to fly it to. Once he has lived under the thumb of one of these, then he would understand the value of Fleets.

Till then his voice is like the tinkling of bells in the breeze...amusing, random, tones symbolizing nothing.

BUT

I agree. Having one of those dorky tags, by which I'm sure you must be refering to ones like: [-GTN-], [PB], [JUX] or [Admin], should not be a prerequisite to play the game.

It should be a prerequisite for owning a planet...atleast according to my system, and since Faustus is in no way related to me (unless the blood tests confirm otherwise) my pull over him is limited to keeping his wife and family hostage.

Or maybe limit individual planet ownership to one per Fleetless player... that actually would seem to be much better. That would give independent, free thinking, cattle-branless players like yourself the oppurtunity to Plunder any planet you capture and move on, or administer it as your private fiefdom.

Thanks for the input Bad_Skeetz, I'm sure Faustus would thank you to if he wasn't soo damn busy recoding the entire game to fullfill this plan!
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I type with the tongues of my enemies, ascend from the backs of my friends, ignore the plight of innocents, and dance on the graves of my gods

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