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DangerBabe
Cadet
Joined: December 21, 2002
Posts: 429
From: Charlotte, NC
|  Posted: 2004-02-22 18:49
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On 2004-02-22 12:39, Faustus wrote:
Thanks guys... thats EXACTLY the kind of feedback I was looking for, thanks especially to Demorian..
I'll review your suggestions some more, and make adjustments accordingly...
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Yes, Demorian has some nice ideas there. Sounds like your Development team does as well. 
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On 2004-02-22 15:37, Shigernafy wrote:
... because those with the experience and the credits could construct these super ships, and all new players or players who aren't quite as knowledgeable about gadgets and what not would basically be screwed. It may stand to benefit someone like Barthezzz, since he knows the game well, but anybody new would be instantly slaughtered. It would drive the game into the ground.
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I agree with Shig, let's keep faction weapons only to their factions. Plus, I much prefer games that have faction individuality. This game would be boring for vets and a slaughterhouse for n00bs if we all could fly ships with the same weapons and defenses. Heck, there would no longer be a need for factions.
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Bobamelius
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 2074
From: Ohio
| Posted: 2004-02-22 21:23
Faustus, you've done an excellent job thus far of making DS the only online game worth paying a monthly fee for. But what I'm reading worries me.
I'm not going to make another post about how unrestricted modding will bring unbalance to the game, others have already done a fine job at that.
You have an awesome Dev Team trying to work with you, with great ideas for the game, many of which they have shared with us the community. PLEASE LISTEN TO THEM, they have wonderful ideas and visions for the progression of this game, and can confer with the community to get their ideas much more than you can.
Not to be offensive at all, but they're here for a reason, to make a bridge between us, the community who pay for and play this game, and you, the game maker who makes this game, your visions for it and the community's visions a reality.
You can't program the game, live your life and play enough of the game to disregard the advice of those who do play a lot, and don't have to worry about spending all that time programming it. There just aren't enough hours in the day.
This is your game, and you're the only one who can make it what it is or what it will be, and I'm sure you have your own vision for what the game should be like, but please listen to the community, and Especially the Dev Team who are aware of more technical aspects and top secret info that we're not 
You're doing a great job Faustus, keep up the good work!!
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[ This Message was edited by: Bobamelius on 2004-02-22 21:23 ]
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
| Posted: 2004-02-22 23:24
lol im not touching this one with a Ten Foot Clown Pole...yikes
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2004-02-23 03:13
hell no!...
taking away mods??? AHHH
mods avaiable to everone?? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
just madness, im having trouble believing Faust is thinking of doing this....
i might faint
Moding is what makes DS what it is today...FUN..sure its a little unbalanced..but making every weapon and such available to all sides is just going to be hell...Moding allows people to customise thier ship...sure it might be someone else's config..but YOU did it...it doesnt feel right not being able to mod ships...
Moding is a very important part of the game..allowing everyone to change thier ships minorly to the senario thats in place...( by senario i dont mean the servers )..Its just the little things that need changing....try removing a few things first...IE the 7 flux dread....( im sorry malduc ) it is incredible cheap, and over powered...the cl2k's which have AT LAST been taken out..thank God ( aka F ). duel cloak however....thats just silly...and duel auto repair...
If they are going to have that i can imagine other faction fleets wanting engineering team slots or something so that they can repair without supply ships...
like i say its just some little things...the whole system doesnt need to be changed...
Backy out
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[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash {C?} on 2004-02-23 03:15 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2004-02-23 07:41
Being able to use a cloak isn't all it's cracked up to be Unless of course you're using that cloak against Kluth who have a hard time getting ECM.
I'm thinking though, won't all this be changing with 1.482? Is that the patch with the ship overhauls? Seems futile to design the modding system around obsolete ships.
I want to add my own suggestion: an anti-cloak device. Us Kluth know just how useless our cloaks are due to ecm and the ease of getting it. I'd like to see a system where ecm doesn't affect cloak unless there's a ton of it (IE won't likely happen), BUT instead of ecm you could mount an anti-cloak device that would use roughly the same energy as a cloak.
Of course that means the whole cloak system needs to be redone with the way it alters sig But sig altering really is a 'false' cloak, and we see this with just 1 ecm. To tell the truth, I'll probably be swapping my cloak for another autorepair or something cuz it's so useless.
But anwyay, nice ideas so far! Just keep in mind the ship overhauls in the near future!
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slice
Admiral
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 164
From: UK
| Posted: 2004-02-23 07:52
Erm most stock luth ships have ecm O_o
and i reckon that unlimited modding would be mighty
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[ This Message was edited by: slice on 2004-02-23 07:54 ]
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After using Yahoo, google, ask.com, etc.. to no avail, all I need to know is what currency uses £ as their symbol. I need to convert £189.00 into english dollars.
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Demorian
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 06, 2001
Posts: 3406
From: Charlotte, North Carolina
| Posted: 2004-02-23 08:50
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I'm thinking though, won't all this be changing with 1.482? Is that the patch with the ship overhauls? Seems futile to design the modding system around obsolete ships.
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Apparently, Faustus has chosen to go a different route than the one laid out by the Dev team. So, you are incorrect. 1.482 will not be making any overhauls. This is the overhaul... Faustus is under the impression that taking away faction-restrictions on devices will create balance, when the overhaul that you're talking about is what's actually needed.
...which is currently not happening.
-Dem
[ This Message was edited by: Demorian on 2004-02-23 08:51 ]
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Quinsisdos^4
Vice Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 11, 2003
Posts: 199
From: Cornwall, UK
| Posted: 2004-02-23 09:59
Personally, I'd hate to see Darkspace go down the "Remove restricions for things to create balance", as it would destroy Final Fantasy 11, Planetside, and a few other MMO's, which pride themselves on different people being able to use different things, which they themselves have to weigh up the pros and cons of before comitting themselves to a faction or in FF11's case, a character class.
Please, keep the factions specific, I don't want to use cloak, or auto repair, I like being UGTO, and I want it to keep its individuality.
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Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2004-02-23 10:43
Guys, I've been thinking about everything you've said...
I value everyones input, which is also part of the problem as well, sometimes I listen too much to the players and end up with something that isn't quite as much fun as it should be...
Lately, I've been trying to think more objectively about the game, it's state, and what can make things more fun for everyone... keep the game balanced, etc... Demorian, you certainly are elegant in your arguments, but it doesn't necessary mean your right
I'm still on the fence so to speak on this entire subject of opening up factions specicifc devices to all factions... I think your all WRONG, when you say it will take away the individuality of the factions, simply because the ICC doesn't start with a cloaking device, a K'Luth doesn't start with a pulse shield... much like in any adventure game, depending on your class, your starting items will be different, but it doesn't prevent you from finding a magic sword and using it in-game just because you started as a wizard...
(Yes, I already know in most rulesets wizards can't use armor)
Enough said for now, I'm sure I'll get hammered at the developer meeting today
-Richard
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Barthezzz
Fleet Admiral
Joined: May 31, 2001
Posts: 5630
From: The Netherlands
| Posted: 2004-02-23 10:49
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On 2004-02-23 10:43, Faustus wrote:
I'm still on the fence so to speak on this entire subject of opening up factions specicifc devices to all factions... I think your all WRONG, when you say it will take away the individuality of the factions, simply because the ICC doesn't start with a cloaking device, a K'Luth doesn't start with a pulse shield... much like in any adventure game, depending on your class, your starting items will be different, but it doesn't prevent you from finding a magic sword and using it in-game just because you started as a wizard...
(Yes, I already know in most rulesets wizards can't use armor)
Enough said for now, I'm sure I'll get hammered at the developer meeting today
-Richard
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There is a slight diffrence;
These Magic Swords arent produced in high numbers 50 Meters from their spawn point.
Basicly, the current modding system is in the way of what youre planning to do.
However, if you could only get for example the Kluth cloak by picking it up from a dead Kluth ship OR from a ship you captured then it might actually be an interesting idea 
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Juxtapose
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 1308
From: Give me your bullets!
| Posted: 2004-02-23 11:04
Right-o!
If what Bart said is correct and that Faustus intends for us only to pick up such swell gadgets as spoils of war...
NOT Possible through trading with your enemies...
NOT Possible by picking one up at a newly conquered Starport...
then, hell yes...fine idea. Good pilots, with some luck, can trick out their Dreads with the banners of their defeated enemies: an automated Repair from a K'luth, a Point Defense Beam from that ICC nOOb.
Just as long as living ships can't strip themselves out for parts and profit and sell themselves to other factions.... Resource loss and Prestige loss are not issues to many players who have far and above exceeded the required prestige for Stations.
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Lith Ragond
Cadet
Galactic Navy
Joined: November 25, 2001
Posts: 1854
| Posted: 2004-02-23 11:32
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| I think your all WRONG, when you say it will take away the individuality of the factions, simply because the ICC doesn't start with a cloaking device, a K'Luth doesn't start with a pulse shield... much like in any adventure game, depending on your class, your starting items will be different, but it doesn't prevent you from finding a magic sword and using it in-game just because you started as a wizard...
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... I to say it, but my first instinct if this happened wouldbe to most DEFINENTLY come back. Why? Cause I could have a cloaking, ELFing, Auto-repairing EAD again. And you know what? It doesn't matter HOW long it takes me to "find" those gadgets, that EAD will be alive for a VERY long time. Now why do I to say this? Well for the most simple and obviously glaring reason... IT IS SO COMPLETELY LAME!
DarkSpace isn't about "loosening our modding morals" which in turn makes the uber-ships. It's about flying a ship, and flying with your teammates. It's about taking advantage of your strengths, and finding ways AROUND your ships/fleets weaknesses. And above all that, it's about doing your best to come out ontop no matter how the odds are stacked against you. Whether you're a TC up against 2 Drainers, or a Siphon against 2 EADs; a fleet of ACs going up against the best the UGTO can offer. Or an AssDread trying to flee from any number of enemy.
The fact of the matter is this: You know when this game has been the most fun? When I've enjoyed playing this game no end? What will keep people here for years more? It's finding the sweet spot in balance. It's that balance where no matter what, it's not about what ship you're flying, or what your modded with, it's when you KNOW, no matter what, if you get out alive, if you kill your target, it's because you were a better PILOT! Because you knew more than your opponent, you outsmarted him, you used strategy he never dreamed of. THAT'S what makes DarkSpace a worthwhile game.
And you know what Faust, turning each faction into just a hybrid of eachother, no matter how small the scale is, will take you further away from the dream that is DarkSpace.
As for my second instinct about all this? If it goes in, there won't be a glimmer of hope of me ever coming back. Cause I'd rather spend my money on a game that TRIES to make me out-think my oponent. Not just make a mad rush for an opponent in hopes he drops a certain item. If I wanted that I'd go play Diablo 2, or Everquest.
For now though, I'll go play Chess on GameSpy and watch how this turns out before I make a decision on whether or not you'll be getting my money anytime soon.
[ This Message was edited by: Lith Ragond on 2004-02-23 11:32 ]
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JackSwift
Cadet
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: October 30, 2002
Posts: 1806
From: Where the Sun dont Shine (Seattle-ish)
| Posted: 2004-02-23 11:34
Can't wait to see cloaked EADs with a pulse wave or two start flooding the MV...
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Axianda The Royal
Fleet Admiral
Terra Squadron
Joined: November 20, 2001
Posts: 4273
From: Axianda
| Posted: 2004-02-23 11:38
Sorry to quote myself here but THAT can make a game both nice and tense.
remember if i put a cloak on my Assault Dread then MAN im gonna be the biggest target ever seen in DS....
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On 2004-02-22 14:07, Axianda *XO* wrote:
however if you make the chance that a factions specific item is left behind after a fight realy REALY slim * making it rare * then i see no problems...
YES we will have some pain in the behind flying around but if you kill one you arent likely to see another one pretty soon.
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the plan is good just as stated above be sure to make it so that that chance to get items like that is 1 in a million.
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MSN: Axianda@hotmail.com
[ This Message was edited by: Axianda *XO* on 2004-02-23 11:54 ]
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Quinsisdos^4
Vice Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 11, 2003
Posts: 199
From: Cornwall, UK
| Posted: 2004-02-23 11:54
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On 2004-02-23 10:43, Faustus wrote:
I'm still on the fence so to speak on this entire subject of opening up factions specicifc devices to all factions... I think your all WRONG, when you say it will take away the individuality of the factions, simply because the ICC doesn't start with a cloaking device, a K'Luth doesn't start with a pulse shield... much like in any adventure game, depending on your class, your starting items will be different, but it doesn't prevent you from finding a magic sword and using it in-game just because you started as a wizard...
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That sound you hear, is the sound of critical knives being sharpened.
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