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Bobamelius
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 2074
From: Ohio
|  Posted: 2004-02-22 13:59
I think that:
a) You can only, ONLY build your own faction's tech EVER, even with captured labs/hubs etc.
b) That would allow you to use foreign components But they should operate at a reduced efficiency (Cloak, for example, should drain more energy, because if it doesn't completely hide a ship's sig it would become useless, yes?)
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[ This Message was edited by: Bobamelius on 2004-02-22 13:59 ]
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Axianda The Royal
Fleet Admiral
Terra Squadron
Joined: November 20, 2001
Posts: 4273
From: Axianda
| Posted: 2004-02-22 14:07
Quote:
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On 2004-02-22 12:39, Faustus wrote:
However, I think people find it cool to destroy a K'Luth, pick up a cloaking device from the wreakage, and equip it into their ship... same for faction tech going the other way.....
-Richard
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I think you hit the nail here.
I think that most people are thinking that you can just buy a claok from a yard and mount it.
however if you make the chance that a factions specific item is left behind after a fight realy REALY slim * making it rare * then i see no problems...
YES we will have some pain in the behind flying around but if you kill one you arent likely to see another one pretty soon.
Also and i dont know if this is implemented yet, If you can arrange that each planet captured its tech will change to your factions tech.
Leaving ONLY the things in a starport and you CANNOT make new ones.
This allows for so called "Raids" and would add some to the game 
all in all i think that this CAN work but its tricky.
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g0ds s0ldier
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: October 24, 2002
Posts: 954
| Posted: 2004-02-22 14:13
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On 2004-02-22 12:39, Faustus wrote:
Additionaly, in some ways this truely creates a balance for all factions...DarkSpace was originally designed with no ship modding, for some of you who remember. After we adding modding to the design, thats really what began the balance problems and what we've been fighting ever since that FEATURE was added. So my thought, is to make things fair to all factions, their should be NO devices that are restricted to only one faction ... the alternative is just to remove ship modding, which probably just make everyone mad 
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No not really my man...if u do that, you will have people flooding the one faction with that *certain ship* that has that *certain* ammount of a *certain slot type*, to make then the Uber Ship that everyone will want...having Kluth Dessies all over again...bringing Ship Balance and MV-Playerbase Balance to the ground more then it already is sorry to say...
If you unrestrict Tech to all factions, all 3 will be pretty much the same...what will be the reason for Kluth to have only 1 Armor on their dessies then?...they will just be under-balanced more then they are with Ruptors... Just make the game one-faction if your gonna do that, other wise my first paragraph will be what happens...
Sorry if I sound hosstile or something...
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Sopwith Camel
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 651
From: Toronto
| Posted: 2004-02-22 14:27
Quote:
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On 2004-02-22 13:07, Doran wrote:
Quote:
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On 2004-02-22 10:58, Faustus wrote:
IPS beam
BPC bomb
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whazzat?
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I dunno about the BPC bomb, but you can play with the IPS beam in the Map Editor... if i'm not mistaken, it's a bluish beam weapon... it stands for Ion Pulse Something...
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Malduc{-GTN-}
Cadet
Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 544
From: New Jersey
| Posted: 2004-02-22 14:45
I have to agree whole heartedly with Demo, and some with g0ds. Faustus, the community is here, and willing to lend you whatever help you need to get this working. If you need people to test balance, by all means, I volunteer. Demorian hit the nail on the head when he said that balance would not be easy. But you have a large and knowlegeable community that is willing to help you if you want to take the time to get this right.
Demorian has already placed a wonderful workup of new slots at your feet. I think that is probably the best suggestion I have seen to date. Making faction tech available to all OR completely taking modding away is going to literally kill this game. I'm not saying this in spite, but it is merely an educated prediction.
Two cloaks on kluth is impossible to fight, you need at least 6 ships in open space to see a kluth blip. You'll be seeing more and more impossible ships to fight. A cloaked EAD with ecm would also be impossible to fight. Cloaking 7 flux battle dreads with 3 eccm, evil things. Cloaking, ecm minelayer Assault Cruisers. There is no end to the unfair ships this would introduce to this game. Not one ship could carry enough eccm to nullify any of these ships. Faustus, talking with some of your developement staff, they have wonderful ideas on what to do with this game. I don't see why their suggestions aren't taken more seriously.
Just let us know what we can do to help you, as you aren't alone in this. The players and staff want to see this game great again just as much as you do. We are here if you want to use us.
Malduc
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[ This Message was edited by: Malduc on 2004-02-22 14:56 ]
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deaddog
Cadet
Joined: April 05, 2002
Posts: 75
From: scotland
| Posted: 2004-02-22 14:47
sounds fairly cool and fair but will it be i think it all depends on what the ships have for slots
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Barthezzz
Fleet Admiral
Joined: May 31, 2001
Posts: 5630
From: The Netherlands
| Posted: 2004-02-22 14:49
Quote:
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On 2004-02-22 13:59, Bobamelius wrote:
I think that:
a) You can only, ONLY build your own faction's tech EVER, even with captured labs/hubs etc.
b) That would allow you to use foreign components But they should operate at a reduced efficiency (Cloak, for example, should drain more energy, because if it doesn't completely hide a ship's sig it would become useless, yes?)
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I would like to give a big w00t to this.
Giving ICC/UGTO a cloak is okay, as a long as they cant build them.
Reduced efficiency also sounds good, it’s logical that a biological device will not function properly in a human ship.
Add this^^^!
Edit:Quote:
| SPECIAL2, // Auto Repair, Cloak, EMP, Pulse Shield |
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This seems silly?
EMP Cannon is a Special2 but Elf is still a light beam?
Last time I checked the Elf Beam was far stronger then the EMP cannon and should therefore be in a separate slot.
Also making the Elf a Special2 will actually allow Kluth to mod it. (They can replace the Elf on some ships with a cl300 for PD, kinda pointless...)
Or is the Flux Wave going to become the EMP wave again?
Because it would make sense then, even though the Elf should be in this slot as well. Or just anything but Light beam really.
How about allowing Elf to Fit in the Disruptor slot? Even though this might be kinda unbalancing...
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[ This Message was edited by: Barthezzz on 2004-02-22 14:53 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Barthezzz on 2004-02-22 14:54 ]
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Malduc{-GTN-}
Cadet
Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 544
From: New Jersey
| Posted: 2004-02-22 14:53
This would introduce black market trade like AM mines and Larvae on the UGTO/ICC factions. Some people care more about having lots of credits than playing the game.
Bad Idea.
malduc
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Bobamelius
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 2074
From: Ohio
| Posted: 2004-02-22 15:14
Quote:
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On 2004-02-22 14:53, Malduc wrote:
This would introduce black market trade like AM mines and Larvae on the UGTO/ICC factions. Some people care more about having lots of credits than playing the game.
Bad Idea.
malduc
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Simple solution. Make it impossible to remove your ship's components except when they're being replaced.
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[ This Message was edited by: Bobamelius on 2004-02-22 15:14 ]
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Demorian
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 06, 2001
Posts: 3406
From: Charlotte, North Carolina
| Posted: 2004-02-22 15:21
Try to stay on topic for Faustus' sake, folks.
-Dem
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2004-02-22 15:37
Quote:
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On 2004-02-22 14:45, Malduc wrote:
Making faction tech available to all OR completely taking modding away is going to literally kill this game. |
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I agree. While there may be a temporary upsurge of players due to the availability of "uber ships" possible with this system, the eventual losses would be too great to sustain the game.. those who want a fun, fair game would be completely disappointed, because those with the experience and the credits could construct these super ships, and all new players or players who aren't quite as knowledgeable about gadgets and what not would basically be screwed. It may stand to benefit someone like Barthezzz, since he knows the game well, but anybody new would be instantly slaughtered. It would drive the game into the ground.
Quote:
| Faustus, talking with some of your developement staff, they have wonderful ideas on what to do with this game. I don't see why their suggestions aren't taken more seriously. |
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This is an interesting observation.
The funny thing is, we have already proposed an overhaul to the gadget and slot system, with the intent on having three distinct factions, but allowing ship modding within reason. We also have outlined what needs to be better controlled, so that ships can't deviate so far from their intended purpose and power levels (in terms of damage and whatnot). Ship layouts have been proposed, gadgets reworked and tweaked.. stats, energy levels, acceleration, damage, defense.. ALL has been reworked and retooled. And, its been finished and proposed for over two months now. Two months!
Yet, here we have a thread, basically ignoring all the work the Dev team put into it. Faustus has an idea about where he wants to go, and asks the community for validation. Meanwhile, he doesn't seem to care what his own Development Team is telling him about it.. and I will bet you that when we council him against this proposal, he will tell us that "oh, I think it will make more fun, and that's the ideal of a game.. and the players supported it in the forum."
And I grant it may be more fun temporarily... but it won't last. As soon as all those players who want a fair game, a fun game, a well balanced game realize what they're playing, we'll see a bigger bitch fest than ever before, closely followed by a bigger exodus than waiting for a patch that showed no progress for 12 months. People will finally realize that Faustus doesn't even know where he's taking his game... and it will all be over.
Like Demo said.. I've been here through all of this. I've seen cloaked EADs... autorepairing humans. I've seen the havoc this wreaks up on the game. It won't last.
Please, think about what this will really do to the game... and tell Faustus to listen to his Dev team and construct a sensible balance.
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Malduc{-GTN-}
Cadet
Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 544
From: New Jersey
| Posted: 2004-02-22 16:33
Faustus, I know you know how to do your job. But Shig has a point. Your knowlege lies in coding and building this game from the ground up. The Dev team was specifically put there to bring forward ideas that better the game, and balance the existing aspects of it. Why not listen to them? The players don't support unrestricted Modding, and support more of what the Dev team has been proposing.
This is still your baby Faustus, everyone knows this. Everyone is working FOR you, to help you get the credit you deserve for making this game what it is. We want that prosperity to continue. Please, I beg you, give their suggestions a shot.
Malduc
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One Creed, One Bond, One FLEET.
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2004-02-22 16:34
I helped the Dev Team on their balance work. I've seen what that will be like.
And I can tell you right now it would be a LOT more "balanced" than anything the game has seen so far, up to and including what Faustus proposed at the beginning of the thread.
No offense Big F, but listen to them...PLEASE!! For Darkspace's sake. 
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Sandals
Fleet Admiral
Agents
Joined: January 21, 2002
Posts: 2001
From: Redmond,WA,USA
| Posted: 2004-02-22 16:39
So long as supporting the [Dev] team and harassing them are ethically compatible, I'm all for support.
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-Baron Von Virtu
Cadet
Joined: December 21, 2002
Posts: 411
| Posted: 2004-02-22 16:42
Yeah Faustus, everyone needs people to give opinions to help improve your own. Ignoring them could just send you down a path where there are good ideas, but they dont work out like they could have if you listened to them. Would the US consitution be as it is if just one person wrote it and didnt have others giving ideas and opinions?
PLEASE! Listen to them.
-Baron Von Virtu
DSC Site Administrator
http://www.3dap.com/darkspace
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