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Stand-by Ion control... |
AdmBito
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: October 04, 2002
Posts: 1249
From: Its hard out here for a pimp
|  Posted: 2003-12-12 15:36
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On 2003-12-12 13:21, Baikon The Spellchecker wrote:
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On 2003-12-11 02:55, SmellyTerror wrote:
A Dread just has a brief moment to swear while everything falls to bits.
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Uh.... Faustus dosn't want any one weapon that can insta kill...
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He wouldn't want you swearing either.
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SmellyTerror
Cadet
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 52
From: Canberra
| Posted: 2003-12-13 01:27
Alright, a couple of points:
First, very important, is that this is *not* meant to be a planetary weapon. Bombing is different and, IMO, hell boring. This is something to put combat into solar-system assaults. It's something to make the lowel-levelled folk feel appreciated.If you sign up in the game, and there're no scenario servers, what do you do in the MV? You're doomed in a fight with Dreads - since so many folk seem to want a cheap kill to add to their stats, low level ships tend to get a Dread or seven p-jumping right on top of them.
The main point of the idea is to have a stage of conquest where the little ships rule the roost, rather than feeling like free kills.
Second, it's damn important to have the weapon fire regularly. Ok, maybe every two or even three minutes would be better, but the whole point is to make Dreads and Stations *leave*, not just hang around and put up with the losses. You need to make it too painful for the big ships to stick around - until, that is, the weapon is removed by the little ships, and then allow the big guys can come back in and (as they probably will post-patch) kick absolute buttock.
Third, it's not necessarily an "Ion" cannon - I just put that in 'cause I love that scene in the Empire Strikes Backside.
Finally, it's not really a killer so much. If you're silly enough to fly your modded Dread straight into enemy territory without scouting for stations, then you're in trouble. Still, if there was a *warning, bad-arse energy detected, flee like a chicken!" type message, then you could, um, flee like a chicken. Other attacking ships would need to keep on their toes, but with some practice should be able to avoid the shots.
The way things are at present, doing any damage at all to an established system is either impossible (when you're on your own) or a dead cert (when you've got two for cloud bombing). Ok, the fun is when there are roughly even forces defending and attacking, but so far I haven't seen that happen very often. Taking a system tends to be a bit of a chore...
This idea is meant to spice system invasions up a bit.
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UberBrooksie
Cadet
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: August 23, 2002
Posts: 433
| Posted: 2003-12-13 11:02
AHHH i can behold the Future and it shows this Mega Death Ion Station obliterating assault dreadnaughts, whole fleets of dreads fall beneath its awsome power.
The only problem i see is some punk farmboy in a b27 fighter flying upto a vent somewhere and firing a few shots down the vent and blowing the whole thing up muwhwhahahaha.
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Raiders
Cadet
Joined: December 28, 2001
Posts: 353
From: Cali
| Posted: 2003-12-13 11:35
Could be cool but what i want to add is what reading the post reminded me of. Have any of you read the Ring World novels? Well if not this is what I'm getting at. There was a weapon that controled the magnetic field of the star causing it to eject a controlled, say "arm" of plasma that while it moved slowly would take out anything it hit. In the novel its organal use was to take out any threatening asteroids that aproahed the system, but was aseffective against ships on certian vectors(say those on a straight line to the ringworld itself or for us a friendly planet.
It would have a slow reload and a slow velocity but be devistating when it finally got there. That would make it the station and dread killer you are looking for, but at the same time have an element of real physics. Also that would limit it to 1 per star, or in cases like luyten were you have a binary the mesh of the magnetic fields for the 2 stars would either not let you build one at all or just the one to keep a balance.
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DOM700 [-IMO-]
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 26, 2001
Posts: 3175
From: Eckental, Germany, Sol-System
| Posted: 2003-12-13 11:56
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On 2003-12-11 02:55, SmellyTerror wrote:
The Big Fat Ion Cannon of Doom
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It's the Big Fat Ion Cannon of Dom...
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-Ashiya-
Vice Admiral
Joined: October 21, 2003
Posts: 204
From: The United Kingdom Of Great Britain And Northern Ireland.
| Posted: 2003-12-13 12:03
lol.. i remember thatr thng from KotOR
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Andravus
Fleet Admiral
Joined: December 16, 2001
Posts: 39
From: Weeki Wachee, Florida
| Posted: 2003-12-13 13:28
Hum... maybe this uber gun thing should take out a certain percent of hull, depending on armor or shielding too.. and if this charging thing will happen. As it peaks out. it has a massive sig? For a couple seconds or so?  [ as for the percent hull thing, class of ship also]
~mo0o
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[ This Message was edited by: Andravus on 2003-12-13 13:30 ]
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2003-12-13 14:01
if u want little ships to be important, there was my prior suggestion to make it so having small ships around gives a defense boost to bigger ships, or u can just make it so a dread is toasted turkey if caught on its own with more then 1 frigate around
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Max Kepler
Fleet Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: March 08, 2002
Posts: 589
From: ICS Victory
| Posted: 2003-12-13 14:08
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On 2003-12-13 01:27, SmellyTerror wrote:
First, very important, is that this is *not* meant to be a planetary weapon. Bombing is different and, IMO, hell boring. This is something to put combat into solar-system assaults. It's something to make the lowel-levelled folk feel appreciated.If you sign up in the game, and there're no scenario servers, what do you do in the MV? You're doomed in a fight with Dreads - since so many folk seem to want a cheap kill to add to their stats, low level ships tend to get a Dread or seven p-jumping right on top of them.
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The low level people don't tend to play in the Metaverse in the first place, and with them reaching Commander so quickly, they can fly Cruisers anyway. I do think the smaller ships need some kind of use, but not the players running them. People can rank verrry quickly in this game.
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Second, it's damn important to have the weapon fire regularly. Ok, maybe every two or even three minutes would be better, but the whole point is to make Dreads and Stations *leave*, not just hang around and put up with the losses. You need to make it too painful for the big ships to stick around - until, that is, the weapon is removed by the little ships, and then allow the big guys can come back in and (as they probably will post-patch) kick absolute buttock.
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A weapon that will "probably" hit a dread and fires every 2 or 3 minutes is INSANE. A Dread fleet comes into the system, and a scout sees them. In 20 minues, the entire fleet is destroyed. Like it was said, an insta-kill weapon is NOT what we want to turn Darkspace into.
Plus, a thing with 5 times a Station's hull will be difficult to destroy. Especially when it still has its own torpedo defenses. It wouldn't be so hard to destroy with Dreads, but, guess what? THERE ARE NONE.
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Finally, it's not really a killer so much. If you're silly enough to fly your modded Dread straight into enemy territory without scouting for stations, then you're in trouble. Still, if there was a *warning, bad-arse energy detected, flee like a chicken!" type message, then you could, um, flee like a chicken. Other attacking ships would need to keep on their toes, but with some practice should be able to avoid the shots.
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Not really a killer? Dreads destroyed every 2-3 minutes IS a killer. If you fly your Dread into enemy territory without scouting, at least you have a chance to get away.
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The way things are at present, doing any damage at all to an established system is either impossible (when you're on your own) or a dead cert (when you've got two for cloud bombing). Ok, the fun is when there are roughly even forces defending and attacking, but so far I haven't seen that happen very often. Taking a system tends to be a bit of a chore...
This idea is meant to spice system invasions up a bit.
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More like deter offensive maneuvers. No one is going to go near any enemy system in a Dread. Which means that no one is going to bother trying to invade something that won't end up getting. The only thing that would make it worth while is if Dreads were FAR more powerful than they are now, and then the defender would be flying around defending with Dreads, with the attackers getting slaughtered in their small ships.
Frankly, I hate the idea. You're trying to solve a little problem with a HUGE change in game mechanics and tactics, and it won't work. A huge ion-cannon thing would be cool to play with, yes, but not having the game revolve around destroying one. Maybe having a superweapon in the BD system (that fires maybe once every 20 minutes) that is capturable via troops but destroyable (it could respawn after a day, maybe) would be interesting. But anything on the level suggested would do far more harm than good to the game.
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SmellyTerror
Cadet
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 52
From: Canberra
| Posted: 2003-12-15 19:47
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On 2003-12-13 14:08, Max Kepler wrote:
The low level people don't tend to play in the Metaverse in the first place, and with them reaching Commander so quickly, they can fly Cruisers anyway. I do think the smaller ships need some kind of use, but not the players running them. People can rank verrry quickly in this game.
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The scenario servers will eventually go. Low levels will need to get their pres in the Metaverse, and it is *not* easy for them to do so there...
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A weapon that will "probably" hit a dread and fires every 2 or 3 minutes is INSANE. A Dread fleet comes into the system, and a scout sees them. In 20 minues, the entire fleet is destroyed. Like it was said, an insta-kill weapon is NOT what we want to turn Darkspace into.
Plus, a thing with 5 times a Station's hull will be difficult to destroy. Especially when it still has its own torpedo defenses. It wouldn't be so hard to destroy with Dreads, but, guess what? THERE ARE NONE.
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Are you seriously suggesting that a Dread fleet would stick around after a shot went past??? Hell no! They'd flee back out of the jumpgate. Again, if they are stupid enough to fly into an established enemy system without scouting, then they deserve to get toasted.
After the first warning of a shot, even if the attackers were too slow to get out, there would be a huge three minute recharge time to get the big ships out. This is not difficult.
That's why I'm saying it's not a killer. No-one would be stupid enough to wait around and die.
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More like deter offensive maneuvers. No one is going to go near any enemy system in a Dread. Which means that no one is going to bother trying to invade something that won't end up getting. The only thing that would make it worth while is if Dreads were FAR more powerful than they are now, and then the defender would be flying around defending with Dreads, with the attackers getting slaughtered in their small ships.
Frankly, I hate the idea. You're trying to solve a little problem with a HUGE change in game mechanics and tactics, and it won't work. A huge ion-cannon thing would be cool to play with, yes, but not having the game revolve around destroying one. Maybe having a superweapon in the BD system (that fires maybe once every 20 minutes) that is capturable via troops but destroyable (it could respawn after a day, maybe) would be interesting. But anything on the level suggested would do far more harm than good to the game.
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No, the Dreads would rule after the cannon went down. Small ships already have a very good survival rate against defending Dreads because they can move so much faster - they just can't do a damn thing to planets. By using maneuverability and intelligent tactics they should be able to take down the station. The attackers could also try shifting systems to split defending forces, but yes, this does make defence a little stronger. That's part of the idea. As it stands an outnumbered defence has absolutely no chance of stopping an attacking force (unless, of course, they are ICC). That's dull.
Consider the options, too. An attacking Dread fleet just needs to have scouts watching for the incoming attacks, to see who it's targetting. The targetted pilot then flees for the jumgate. Once through he turns around and comes back in. In the mean time the rest of the fleet rolls on. Yeah it'd be a pain, but it's far from impossible.
Another possibility is an attacking force rebuilding the cannon in a constested system. For a lead up to hitting "clusters" it might be a good seige-breaker for a more mobile, but outgunned, attacker.
...and if DS eventually goes MV only, then boredom, I think, is not a little problem. Reducing an established planet *is* boring. What should be a real achievement is, instead, a chore. By varying the combat to some degree you add some interest.
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Sandals
Fleet Admiral
Agents
Joined: January 21, 2002
Posts: 2001
From: Redmond,WA,USA
| Posted: 2003-12-15 20:13
The game is supposed to be focused around planets not giant uber cannons
all this would do is deter even odds fights
*EDIT*
I fail to see what rational government would build such a monstrosity when they can build an entire fleet instead
furthermore
it doesn't fit the k'luth
the UGTO are on offense
the ICC don't have the infrastructure
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[ This Message was edited by: Sandalpocalypse on 2003-12-15 20:16 ]
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Tiffy Rando
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 354
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2003-12-15 21:08
I think it would be rather cool if there was some sort of Mega Beam that could strike down super-capital ships from extreme distances
-These would be MV only
-only one can be built in a system
-If a system is captured by an enemy fleet while the gun is still operational, then the gun simply shuts down... it's defenses however would remain operational.
-only the faction deemed as controling the system can build one
- it would be easy to find this weapon because it fires a beam, also it would have a unbelievably high sig everytime it fired.
- In being a beam weapon, there is no question about projectile velocity
-It would only be able to fire at ships cruiser class or larger
-Each faction would have a similar weapon, differing mainly in appearance
-One of these placed in a system inthe MV would make it so that fleets would have to use stealth and tactics to enter the system and take out this weapon... and make it safe for larger capital ships to enter the system and take out the gun...
-The gun would only have a limited range, requiring that it be placed in a key defensive position...
-The recharge rate of the gun would be reasonable... every 100 seconds or so
-It would take at least 2 shots to kill a station
-It would also have a few slots, like a planet, that could be built on... however, only defensive type-additions can be onstructed ie. sensor/anti-sensor, defense bases, fighter bases... this would make it formidable... therefore to attack one would require a sizable force, requiring teamwork and larger participation in the MV
-Since the gun has limited range, an attacking fleet of super-capital ships could still engage an enemy fleet outside of it's sphere of influence.
-The gun would require a large amount of time and resources to construct
-The firing range of the gun (once located) would be indicated by a shaded blue circle in the Navigation screen
This should make things a little easier, and should satisfy most complaints
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Tiffy Rando
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 354
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2003-12-15 21:11
oh just a quick amendment ot what I said... I mean tto put only one can be constructed PER FACTION in a system... so if a faction captures the system without destroying the gun, they can build a gun of their own. Which would also make it easy to destroy the old gun...
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Antdizzle
Joined: February 07, 2003
Posts: 860
| Posted: 2003-12-15 21:12
[quote]
On 2003-12-15 19:47, SmellyTerror wrote:
The scenario servers will eventually go. Low levels will need to get their pres in the Metaverse, and it is *not* easy for them to do so there...
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Yes the scenario servers will go *gasp* now it will make it take 2 days instead of one to reach captain! Yikes! Scary, i know
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Joker(TheOne)
Captain
Joined: February 16, 2003
Posts: 57
| Posted: 2003-12-15 21:41
lol... if this wasn't so explicitly taken from conquest i'd think about it.. but conquest ended up using vision and fog of war as a limiting factor... so the ion cannon COULDN'T hit everything in the system. And I'd just say that it would be nice if it acted more as a gate... I.e. you have a gate/station that can defend itself and has jump disruptor and such on... Has a strong beam that can kill nearly anything... *infintesimly tightened pinpoint beam* basically it would wipe out the gate guards.... and it *might* improve some lag so you don't have to restart as often.. of course it might cause lag.. but I'd find it cool if you were based in a station. Of course (ends up droning on and on and on and on and on and on.....and on and on)
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[ This Message was edited by: Joker[(THE ONE)] [Captain] on 2003-12-15 21:43 ]
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