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Builds, Colonys, Outposts |
Eleda
Cadet
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 438
From: Sunny ol England
|  Posted: 2003-10-22 13:09
It has always bothered me that barren planets are practically identical in usefullness to the more habitable planets in Darkspace. I know that with the introduction of Shipyards there will start to be a differance (due to the shipyards high population requirements) but i would like to see more then that.
This is a bit convoluted so bare with me at the start 
DRONE BAYS
Split drone bays into type1 and type2. Type 1 can hold a Basic Build and a Supply. Type 2 can hold an Advanced Build (and advanced supply modules..but thats a topic for a different post)
The type 1 bay would be on all the lower classed Engy's and can build all the usual buildings except the Colony Hub. Instead it can build an Outpost Hub (more on this later)
The type 2 bay would be on the advanced engy's and is the same as the type 1 bay but it CAN build Colony Hubs and can also build space platforms (once they are re-released..some time this century  ).
COLONYS
A Colony Hub would function the same as it always has with one differance, it can only be built on planets that can support a population without the help of domes (Terran, Arid etc).In other words, it cannot be built on barren planets. A colony Hub is an open facility that sacrifices protection for functionality.
OUTPOSTS-A summery
An Outpost Hub can be built on any planet (even a terran planet if your that way inclined) and functions like a colony hub (reserch,power,food and living space). Once it is built you must select its TYPE (see later) before you can build any further structures on the planet.An Outpost Hub sacrfices funtionality for the protection needed to operate on the airless surface of a barren planet.
The following limits apply to all Outpost Planets unless stated otherwise by the Hubs type (even a ship in orbit with a build cannot violate this)
-Only 1 hydrofarm may be built (yes you have to IMPORT food to use a barren planet to full potential)
-The automated hydrofarm and deepcore mine may not be built
-No more than 8 defense structures (def base,fighter base, sensors etc) may be built
-No more than 2 barracks may be built
-No depos may be built
-No more than 4 Mines may be built
-No factories may be built
OUTPOST TYPES
Once a type is selected certain bonuses apply to the planet concering the structures that can be built on it.The Hub type CAN be changed but any buildings that exceed the new hubs limits will be de-commisioned
Mining Outpost
-No upper limit on mine numbers
-Deepcore mines may be built
Navel Depo
-Up to 4 depos may be built
-Up to 12 defense structures may be built
-Up to 4 Barracks may be built
-Up to 3 Factories may be built
Military Outpost
-No upper limit on defensive structures
-Up to 6 Barracks may be built
-1 Depo may be built
-1 Factory May be built
This all represents the difficulty of building and running structures on a surface that is hostile to life combined with the reduced command and control provide by the Outpost Hub forcing the planet to specialise to even achieve average ability in an area.
Poke holes in this as you see fit 
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Antdizzle
Joined: February 07, 2003
Posts: 860
| Posted: 2003-10-22 13:30
edit ugh anyway nice idea, i like but hats the adv. supply the only thing i don't like is engi and adv. engi to confusing.
[ This Message was edited by: Sarge on 2003-10-22 13:31 ]
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Cyborg509
Cadet
Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 38
From: Indiana
| Posted: 2003-10-22 13:30
I really don't like these ideas. I think all this would do is take some of the fun away from gameplay.
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Juxtapose
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 1308
From: Give me your bullets!
| Posted: 2003-10-22 13:32
I very much like the Outpost / Colony Idea based around the type of planet you are building.
I completely agree that the present system needs this type of change. Presently the only difference is that Terran worlds are worth more due to their greater population.
With Shipyards, this will limit the usefullness of Barren world, as in order to build a shipyard a greater number of ancillary structures will be needed to support the population.... but I don't think that is enough.
The only thing that I disagree with is the Builds/Engineering ships. I don't believe there needs to be that much added complication.
You orbit a barren planet in a regular Engineering ship and you can build an Outpost: When you go to start the research, you must 1st choose the type of Outpost, that then frees up the available things you can research.
You orbit a Terran/Arid and you can build a colony...no outposts. I just think it is more realistically codeable this way.
Planet types limit available research which limits what can be built...Hub types limit the number of things built as well.
Again, I think this is a pretty cool idea!
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Antdizzle
Joined: February 07, 2003
Posts: 860
| Posted: 2003-10-22 13:32
cyborg he has a point a barren planet wouldn't work as well as a planet w/ atmosphere
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Cyborg509
Cadet
Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 38
From: Indiana
| Posted: 2003-10-22 13:37
Yea that is true, but just make changes to the way Hubs are on barrens no need for an outpost.
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Axianda The Royal
Fleet Admiral
Terra Squadron
Joined: November 20, 2001
Posts: 4273
From: Axianda
| Posted: 2003-10-22 14:30
I like it gives the higher class engineer ships more use
especially that outpost hub difference idea is great
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A Troll =SSC=
Cadet
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 302
From: New Orleans,Louisiana
| Posted: 2003-10-22 15:15
i agree
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Gideon
Cadet
Joined: September 14, 2001
Posts: 4604
From: Oregon, USA
| Posted: 2003-10-22 16:54
Interesting...
Though, personally, I like to see the specifics of a planet determine it's classification, not the other way around.
Meaning, rather than X type of planet means you can only have Y combination of structures, Y combination of structures labels the planet as X type of planet.
Puts more power in the hands of player, in my opnion.
The trick is to create a system where specialization is encouraged through the stats of the structures...
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Sandals
Fleet Admiral
Agents
Joined: January 21, 2002
Posts: 2001
From: Redmond,WA,USA
| Posted: 2003-10-22 18:49
I think that making it harder for barrens to support farming's a good idea. For instance, a Farm on a Terran planet should be more efficient than a farm on a Barren planet. For instance, a Barren planet's Hydro Farms & C-Hub could produce only 5 food each.
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Lupino
Cadet
Joined: March 23, 2002
Posts: 359
| Posted: 2003-10-22 19:42
I think we have that already Gid, except every planet has the abilities of a major homeworld
I agree, unless the Barren has some sort of important resource or is a "big" type of planet, it should be classified as an 'outpost', or a 'minor' planet, and be limited in its number of defenses, depots, ect.
Another type of Outpost could be the "Listening Post", you're allowed to build X number of Sensor-related buildings.
On a different note, what about the 'non-outpost' type planets? It begs to reason that there shouldn't be a "Colony Hub" on Earth or Extratha? Maybe depending on how many buildings a planet has/what kind of buildings a planet has/after x period of time, a "Colony Hub" could upgrade to a "City" or "Trade Center" or "Captiol" or whatever sounds reasonable.
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Depthcharge
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: December 08, 2002
Posts: 1549
From: DFW, Tx
| Posted: 2003-10-22 20:02
Interesting idea. Only one thing i see wrong with it.
You build mines on baren planets? lol Why? That should be fixed and taken out, lol i think otherwise its a waste to build a mine on a planet with no resources.
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Eleda
Cadet
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 438
From: Sunny ol England
| Posted: 2003-10-23 12:37
Quote:
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On 2003-10-22 20:02, Depthcharge wrote:
Interesting idea. Only one thing i see wrong with it.
You build mines on baren planets? lol Why? That should be fixed and taken out, lol i think otherwise its a waste to build a mine on a planet with no resources.
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Depthcharge, how in the hell have you got to Admiral without seeing barren planets with darkmatter on? Or urdanium, or any other number of rare resources. When the new patch is finalised even metals and heavy metals will be needed in large amounts to build ships at shipyards.
What my suggestion was attempting to create was a hub and spoke relationship between planets.
Habitable planets would be the hub and the 'spokes' would lead out to the barren planets around them. The habitable planet would produce ships/components and food while the outposts around it would feed resources in or (in the case of close orbiting moons) provide additional defense/ship support.
As for creating a sensor planet...that is one of the possible combinations of a Military Outpost. Sensor bases (and anty sensor bases) count as defensive structures and so would come under the limits set out for the different Outpost types .
This would bring a new level of grand tactics to the game. Should you go for the central (and after the new patch VERY tough to capture) habitable planet, potentialy crippling an entire system in one stroke, or should you nibble away at the far easyer to take Outposts to weaken the habitable planet and provide yourself with bases in-system to launch attacks from.
People building planets would have to consider the ENTIRE system and how the planets will interact with each other, unlike currently when they only look away from the planet they are building when they want to import a rare resource.
Also think about how the worth of systems would change(i AM aware that new systems are going to be added to the MV). Currently UGTO has a distinct disadvantage when it comes to systems due to their low number of planets. They do, however, have a greater number of habitable planets which would become a far more important consideration.
Extra depth would be added to the game on the tactical level, which at the end of the day is what is going to keep your long-term gamers.
This could also lead on to other things. If the class of the planet became important new structures and weapons could be brought into play:-
TERRAFORMERS
Rather than a ship that flys to a planet and changes its type (which is un-realistic considering the level of advancement of the factions in DS...creating a self sustainable Biosphear would take generations) a structure built on the planet that continually works to improve things could be used. It would be expensive and would consume resources constantly but it would improve the planets type by one level (and if destroyed the planet would revert...not a good thing).
INFESTATION BOMB
The Kluth version of a PCM. If it hits a habitable planet it will release nano-bots. They will work to break down organic matter, produce poisons etc etc and genrally make the planet uninhabitable for a short period-net effect the planet is reduced to barren status for a short period.
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Sandals
Fleet Admiral
Agents
Joined: January 21, 2002
Posts: 2001
From: Redmond,WA,USA
| Posted: 2003-10-24 03:15
i think depthcharge interpreted "barren" as "no resources", like Big Boonie.
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Gideon
Cadet
Joined: September 14, 2001
Posts: 4604
From: Oregon, USA
| Posted: 2003-10-24 10:49
Terraformers = NO
Stellar/Planetary destroyers = NO
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