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Kluth Balance Issues - 1.482 |
Darksworde
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: September 06, 2002
Posts: 806
From: The Zoo
|  Posted: 2003-09-09 09:47
Well, since the loss of the cl2ks to kluth dessies, we no longer have what i consider to be a viable ship that can hold its own in mainstay combat. Im talking about a ship that can go 1 to 1 vs an AC and give it a good fight.
Its been a well known fact amongst us active vets on both sides of the fence that the Kluth dessie is only uber against ppl who know not what they are doing. Give me an AC with AM Torps any day of the week and I will beat the dessie pilot every time (Daylight, if you would back me up on this pls).
Alot of you are thinking, well dessies shouldnt be so powerly, and I agree, however there is a huge lack in viable kluth ships, so where else shall we look, maybe in the Kluth Cruiser Department, which on paper look good but realistically sux so bad in MV, it hurts.
So this is what I propose (Layout Wise).
Kluth Scarab
Increase its armour to 2 full rings
Make all the Weapon Slots forward firing only
Make at least 4 of the Hvy Weapon Slots full arc
Kluth Scale & Parasite
Increase its armour to 2 full rings
Make all hvy weapon slots Full Arc
Remove the Special Slot
We need a fighting chance against the ICC and the UGTO, so if your gonna nerf our dessies, at least still leave us on a equal playing field.
To be honest, if you'd wanted to nerf the dessies, all that would have been needed was to remove the special slots. No more energy means no more duracell Dessies IMO.
Its either that, or make the TC/AC hvy weapon slots forward firing only!
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[ This Message was edited by: Darksworde on 2003-09-09 09:54 ]
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Axianda The Royal
Fleet Admiral
Terra Squadron
Joined: November 20, 2001
Posts: 4273
From: Axianda
| Posted: 2003-09-09 10:11
Well i do agree whit dark.
Right now the Kluth cruisers do not vary to much from you everyday Kluth destroyer.
We realy need to give em something that makes them worth taking out.
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Daylight \"The Beginning\"
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 24, 2002
Posts: 608
From: Oregon, USA
| Posted: 2003-09-09 10:18
I'll back you...I think I am fairly good in 1 v 1 combat and will take on most dreads and win in my shell, through in a well build AC with F torps or AM torps (manual detting them) and I am out of there. Only thing I can do is hit and run.
I will also say that without the reactor on the shell or claw, its a worthless craft...add another ame if you take the reactor.
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Darksworde
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: September 06, 2002
Posts: 806
From: The Zoo
| Posted: 2003-09-09 10:55
Oh, and I just remembered the other issue that we have in 1.480 with regards to balance. Remember that the targetting circles for Kluth ships are alot bigger than the targetting circles for ICC/UGTO ships. This plays a huge part in balance when comparing same class ships, as damage, splash or otherwise is greatly effected by this!
Although to be honest, this is supposedly fixed in 1.481, so its not much of an issue.
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Quistis {C?}
Cadet
Evil Empires Inc.
Joined: April 06, 2002
Posts: 1536
| Posted: 2003-09-09 11:04
Axianda *XO* whats up with your sig? What do you want the Old People to "Untie"? I won't untie anything I tell yah! EWWWW
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2003-09-09 12:29
mew, the kluth should be hit and run, i dont know, everytime i bring this up i get bashed, but ill try it again..
once we nicknamed the game DreadSpace, now i nickname it TorpSpace.
its not so much the CL2k as all those full mount torps and the reactors.
the disruptor may play a key role here if its characteristics can be altered; IMHO 5 disruptors should do (at the current values) about 35% hull damage to a cruiser (eventual shielding neglected). several options can be considered, one of the less conservative ideas i had was that disruptors could differ from lasers in their firing cycle.
they would not pre-charge, but instead when fired unload damage to the target depending on the energy available to the shooter, and then have a cooldown timer, that might be fixed or depending on the energy discharged.
also said before: currently a good kluth combat pilot is the one who keeps his destroyer in battle for the longest time, when the gameplay is being fixed the best kluth combat pilot would be the one who deals the most damage in a short timeframe and successfully gets away and returns for another blast a minute or so later.
hit and run.
[ This Message was edited by: sono [Quistis for [Admin]] on 2003-09-09 12:31 ]
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Darksworde
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: September 06, 2002
Posts: 806
From: The Zoo
| Posted: 2003-09-09 12:39
Sono,
Thats why I say drop the reactors. Most kluth will drop out off combat to regain energy, either that or risk being overrun by an AC/TC with more power, more armour and a slightly less effective weapons layout.
To be honest, when u say hit and run, do you mean
Kluth to do Max damage until all the energy is gone then get out of the fight,
or do u mean
kluth jump in, Space Bar Mash and jump out with 2% hull?
An important decision to make really, because its a question that can help define what layout kluth ships should take!
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[ This Message was edited by: Darksworde on 2003-09-09 12:45 ]
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Gideon
Cadet
Joined: September 14, 2001
Posts: 4604
From: Oregon, USA
| Posted: 2003-09-09 12:46
My personal opinion is that, when we go to do v1.482, the entire K'Luth armada must be taken back for complete rethinking and redesign.
However, I think we kinda need to do this will all three factions, letting us design them freshly so that they conform to their original concept better.
This, however, would take a bit of time. So, I feel it is unlikely that this is what we will do at this time.
Basically, keep the ship ideas coming.
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2003-09-09 12:49
hrm gideon, it might help to work out some baseline ships, expand on that, and you should be fine with minimal effort..
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
| Posted: 2003-09-09 12:50
Darksworde is right on the money with this one. no special = no xtra energy for weapons.
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NoPants2win
Cadet
Joined: February 23, 2002
Posts: 1275
From: Poorly ventilated paint storage facility.
| Posted: 2003-09-09 13:06
We used to be hit and run. But people didn't like it for 4 reasons.
1). It forced them to use some actual strategy when they were trying to whore hull points in FA. I mean this for both the kluth, and non kluth sides
2). Five or six ships would appear around someone at random, and they would die. This was especially hard on the little ships. You think claw is deadly now?
3). Its not freaking possible to hit and run in a freaking dreadnought.
4) It was even harder for kluth to actually cap anything
I remember that 2 was great fun for us k'luthers but the hummies didn't like it much. Especially when k'luth farmed cripples during good ICC-UGTO fights.
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Serapis
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 09, 2002
Posts: 73
From: Europe
| Posted: 2003-09-09 13:47
Hi all!
In my honest own opinion the developers should not give too much on whining.
It is very important to study the players suggestions
but only because of a bunch of active post-writers
a ship-design, weapon-loadout, armour-strength, ...
shouldn't be changed.
This will only proof the old actio == reactio theorie, which means that other people will come and whine about the recent/upcoming change.
A kind of authority must be accepted, but wishes have to be welcome and thought over thoroughly.
A message to all people who are complaning constantly and at the developer:
- Perhaps it is wanted the way it is?!
- Perhaps some changes will do more imbalance as it can be seen on the first look ?!
-If sbd want to have a completely different game, than start building Ur own one
-And last but not least: I think it is fun, too to come around with a game the way it is, with all its apparently deficiencies! This will mark and is marking a good and skilled player and is more fun than complaining and whining.
A last word: This is not meant as a flame - only sth to think about,
so plz don't flame on me. Leave it the way it is,
That were my two cents,
Serapis
*edit1: because I used the wrong brackets
*edit2: because I forgot *edit1
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[ This Message was edited by: Serapis on 2003-09-09 13:49 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Serapis on 2003-09-09 13:51 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2003-09-09 13:51
Don't worry too much about going up against AC's. My guess, like Gideon's, is they get a total reworking with the balance patch. ICC is supposed to be defensive, and their assault ships defy this.
And my personal idea for the K'luth: give them very hard to detect cloaks BUT weak weapons. I think they'd have been fine if they were that way from the start. But having both cloak and the most firepower lead to nerfs.
I'm not saying super weak weapons, I'm saying give them firepower comparable to the human ships of the same class, possibly with one strong, energy consuming (and decloaking) mega beam or cannon they can fire if they so choose to make themselves vulnerable.
They'd lose their current disruptors for lesser beams, they'd gain 1 super disruptor limited to 1 per ship (cl2k power, disruptor type meaning range has no effect, cruiser and higher only), and lose torpedoes except on the dreads and maybe assault ships. Firing anything other than the super disruptor would decloak them momentarily (less than 5 seconds tops), firing the super disruptor drains most if not all energy and can make them sitting ducks if they're not careful.
This way they can stay cloaked and invisible all they want except momentarily when firing or around tons of ECCM, but the price they pay for it is less firepower than the other factions. If they want to fire their high power weapon, it will drain their energy and make them vulnerable and unable to cloak for a while.
Their cloak should be their main, unique advantage. We all know the cloak right now is more a hindrance than anything else right? That's because K'luth weapons are WAY too powerful to justify them having 'invisibility', so their cloak had to be nerfed. It's not a 'true' cloak anymore, more an energy consumer that requires lots of ECM, or else just 1 ECCM will make it worthless.
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[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2003-09-09 15:58 ]
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Serapis
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 09, 2002
Posts: 73
From: Europe
| Posted: 2003-09-09 14:00
I totally agree to Mr Sparkle. -;
Good idea!!
Greetz,
Serapis
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2003-09-09 14:05
but yule, back then it was all about jumping.
i picture a hit and run on impulse engines.
to accomplish this, the cloak could become an activateable device with 0% detection but the duration of the effect limited by overall signature and sensors in the area.
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