| Author |
What DS Needs...(tad long) |
Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
|  Posted: 2003-09-03 09:59
While overviewing the chat log of the Public Developer Discussion (which I, unfortunately, missed), I noted a few times Faustus mentioning starting work on DS2. He didn't say anything specific, nor did he say WHEN he would be starting...but I gathered that it would be not too many months down the road.
I believe that starting work on Darkspace 2 sooner rather than later would be a mistake. The original still has a LOT of potential; it just needs appropriate tweaking and balancing to get there. If Faustus halts development on DS1 and starts work on DS2, you can bet the wait will be a lot longer than for the 1.481 patch. Given the player drop we've seen in just 9 months, imagine how many players would leave while Faustus worked on an entirely new game instead of a patch for an exisiting one.
Unless Faustus gets DS1 to a point that it is fun to play WITHOUT further development, and he is free to devote all his time to the sequel, I predict a drastic (if not catastrophic) drop in the playerbase.
As you can guess, the game's current state is not quite what I have in mind. 
In fact, I think work will be needed even after 1.481 and 1.482. Assuming that all the planned changes go through for those two patches, here is what I think Darkspace will need to become "stable" enough for Faustus to start work on its successor:
1. Decrease in rate of expansion. - One of the biggest problems with the persistant Metaverse is that it is limited in size, and within 24 hours of a reset it is completely divided up amongst the factions and all the planets fully-developed. Indeed, it takes less than a weekend for it to reach the exact same point it had before the reset.
Sometime ago, in the Beta Lobby, a few players (I forget exactly whom, though most likely members of the Development Team were there) had an impromptu Dev Chat, basically brainstorming and describing what sort of things they would want to see. From that, I remember a number of ideas to counter the continuous stalemate we see in the current Metaverse.
Firstly: Planets do NOT grow population on their own. As it stands, any planet with habitat space and food supply will begin growing population at a rate of 1/minute. This means that even without being colonized, every naturally habitable (Terran, Ocean, Ice, and Arid) planet has reached its maximum population within an hour, and that every Barren planet which gets a Colony Hub, 2 Domes and 2 Hydro Farms is fully-effective in a half-hour. This would change, so that a planet has to have at least 2 population to begin increasing its numbers. It would also increase those numbers much slower, perhaps at the rate of 1 per hour (or if we REALLY want to slow down, 1 per 8 hours).
Currently, the only way to boost population above and beyond its natural growth is to disband a unit of infantry. That would work in the new version, except that same unit of infantry would USE UP one population when it is trained. Players would be able to load "Colonists" from a friendly, inhabited planet, which would increase a planet's population by 1 when unloaded onto it. All Colony Hubs would start with 1 population, and all Engineering Ships would carry 1 population when they first leave the Gate or Shipyard.
Minor note - A planet could be captured using colonists instead of infantry.
Secondly: Increase in time required for research and all buildings to construct. Additionally, the research tree for a planet would be tied into the labs rather than the Colony Hub. A planet cannot research anything without at least one Research Lab, and if its only lab is destroyed it loses that research. However, if the planet already HAS a building with advanced technology, it can reverse-engineer it and regain the research.
Example: UGTO Bomber Cruiser bombs the Research Lab off Lesser Boonie. ICC warships chase the Cruiser away, but the planet has lost its research. The planet still has some buildings, however, including a Defense Base. When a new Research Lab is built, the player can instantly re-research the Defense Base technology. When it is complete, all prerequisite tech (IE Drives, AR Missiles, IT Missiles, and CL tech) is also researched.
A planet can also reverse-engineer devices in its starport, BUT: 1. The item itself is used up, 2. The research takes five times as long as normal and uses up 5x the resources needed to build the device, 3. With other faction technology, the research takes TEN times as long as normal and uses up ten times more resources as normal.
Buildings will consume resources steadily, depending on their function. Domes use up Oxygen and Food, Factories use up metal (replacing spare parts or broken machinery), Depots use up multiple resources, etc. The more advanced the building, the faster it uses up resources.
More advanced buildings require more population (unless they are automated). As it is now, almost all buildings only use up 1 population. After the change, Defense bases use up 5, Fighter Bases use up 8, Shield Generators use up 10, etc.
Planets DO NOT HAVE A BUILDING LIMIT. They are only limited by how many buildings they have the resources, population and power to support. If a planet runs low on resources, the highest-consuming building will be deactivated until it has a surplus again.
Planet locks do not limit access by rank, but rather by FLEET. If Agents owns Azchu and Lark of Serenity locks it, other Agents can access the planet, but players from other fleets cannot. A fleet may grant another fleet access to its planets on their home page.
Thirdly: The Metaverse is not static in size. It has the systems we have now, yes, and new ones as well, but star systems that a faction has not found WILL NOT SHOW UP ON NAV SCREEN. The stars themselves will be visible in normal mode, but a ship must close within a certain distance of the star to add it to its factions charts. When a star is added to the charts, any gas giant planets orbiting it will also be detected, but smaller planets must be searched for directly. If a faction colonizes a planet in the star system and builds a Colony Hub, they gain knowledge of most of the system's planets.
Minor note: The player who finds a star system or planet gets a substantial boost in prestige.
When the Metaverse resets with this new code, each faction will start with knowledge of its home system, its immediate neighbors, the enemy home systems and their immediate neighbors. ALL other star systems must be explored.
This way, the vast majority of star systems will be unknown at the start. It will take a long time to completely build ever planet in every system. As the faction spreads, colonizes and explores, the Dev Team can ADD NEW SYSTEMS to the outermost edges of the Metaverse. This is not a task that requires months of coding by Faustus; anyone who knows how to use the map editor can create a map, upload it to the servers, and the Admins can add it to the Metaverse if they judge it worthy.
We now have a continually-expanding universe, with effectively limitless boundaries and three dynamically growing civilizations. If a faction's home system is captured, they can always build more ships in their other systems' shipyards. Odds are they will have colonized in at least one star system their enemy does not know about, which will give them a decisive edge in surviving and retaking their territory.
If Faustus can get these changes into Darkspace, along with the improvements in 1.481 and the balance fixes in 1.482, then the game should have a long, steady future ahead of it. 
[ This Message was edited by: Jim Starluck on 2003-09-03 09:59 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Jim Starluck on 2003-09-03 10:00 ]
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2003-09-03 10:24
Quote:
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The more advanced the building, the faster it uses up resources. |
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how about the more advanced the building the more resources it uses, but the more efficiantly it uses them. or you could make building resource usage like labs and shield bases, a building will use up resourses faster, but by smaller and smaller increments
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Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2003-09-03 10:34
Let me elaborate on DS2...
Basically, DS2 is about 1-2 years away from even getting started, so don't worry too much. Yes, I realize that there is ALOT more to be done with DS1, and that has priority.
Besides all this, my current plan is to do "DarkSpace - Marine" before DS2 anyway, reason is that the technology developed for that would be used in DS2. DS2 will basically be a merging of the first person engine developed for DSM with DarkSpace as it is now.
DSM, will be ran almost as a seperate game in it's own lobby, the ground battles however will be determined by what is going on in the real Metaverse.
-Richard
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2694
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2003-09-03 10:47
Quote:
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On 2003-09-03 10:34, Faustus wrote:
my current plan is to do "DarkSpace - Marine"
DS2 will basically be a merging of the first person engine developed for DSM with DarkSpace as it is now.
DSM, will be ran almost as a seperate game in it's own lobby, the ground battles however will be determined by what is going on in the real Metaverse.
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W()()T
man if you can get thing to work we can trow away all games like
starwars gallactie
planetside
becous we all wil have it in one game
DARKSPACE:
space stratergy/action
3d sifi space shooter
i dont care if you are finiched around 2008 ill wait for it
(PS new tech you say try to do that in an open chat whit me present i stil know somt nice things of technology)
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DS Discordion
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MOC
Admiral
Joined: January 30, 2003
Posts: 66
From: Ocean City ,Maryland
| Posted: 2003-09-03 11:22
Like me , you need some sleep ..use all that brainpower on why is a tranny so fast..there ya go
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Crash003
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 12, 2002
Posts: 72
From: Chichester, UK
| Posted: 2003-09-03 11:28
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Planets DO NOT HAVE A BUILDING LIMIT. They are only limited by how many buildings they have the resources, population and power to support. If a planet runs low on resources, the highest-consuming building will be deactivated until it has a surplus again.
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this would mean we find planets like earth filled with buildings with no unit space, yes it means the planets need more of each building type but when the planet can hold 100s of buildings anyway, it really wont matter
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Minor note: The player who finds a star system or planet gets a substantial boost in prestige.
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if that were the case we would have players just looking for stars and not building them
if they are going to gain anything it should be scouting points... and not that many
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Minor note - A planet could be captured using colonists instead of infantry.
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rioting... LOL
what u are asking for is the MV to be changed alot... you havta take into accout aswell that other servers will also be running still.
(i believe that if the servers FA and newbie are taken away DS will die)
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bdubs
Cadet
Joined: January 07, 2003
Posts: 95
From: Chicago, IL
| Posted: 2003-09-03 11:57
sounds like some nice ideas tho...if all these changes are made in the MV and then the Darkspace-Marine gets released and incorporated into the DS game (even seamlessly or near seamlessly) as long as quality isn't skimped on, there should be a game for the masses...
but how should these games be integrated together? should there be designated "pilots" and "infantry" who stay playing in their respective positions/roles in the game or can they switch over as need be (capping a planet). also, would a person have to quit the game and then sign back on to change roles or would you be able to use a hotkey such as F* (F11 or F12) to toggle between battle mode and tactical mode.
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[ This Message was edited by: bdubs on 2003-09-03 12:02 ]
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\"The SSC endorses the use of caffeine as a creative tool.\"
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2003-09-03 12:28
Quote:
| this would mean we find planets like earth filled with buildings with no unit space |
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Not after the patch Crash003 Even luna, lesser boonie and taz can hold 16 units, they stack on top of buildings.
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Antdizzle
Joined: February 07, 2003
Posts: 860
| Posted: 2003-09-03 13:42
Quote:
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On 2003-09-03 10:47, FIR3T0N3[NL] //RETARTED\ wrote:
Quote:
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On 2003-09-03 10:34, Faustus wrote:
my current plan is to do "DarkSpace - Marine"
DS2 will basically be a merging of the first person engine developed for DSM with DarkSpace as it is now.
DSM, will be ran almost as a seperate game in it's own lobby, the ground battles however will be determined by what is going on in the real Metaverse.
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W()()T
man if you can get thing to work we can trow away all games like
starwars gallactie
planetside
becous we all wil have it in one game
DARKSPACE:
space stratergy/action
3d sifi space shooter
i dont care if you are finiched around 2008 ill wait for it
(PS new tech you say try to do that in an open chat whit me present i stil know somt nice things of technology)
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/me looks up at god and whispers thank you.
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Crash003
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 12, 2002
Posts: 72
From: Chichester, UK
| Posted: 2003-09-03 15:07
after the patch.. isnt it 32 units?
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A Troll =SSC=
Cadet
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 302
From: New Orleans,Louisiana
| Posted: 2003-09-03 15:32
i like everything i see on this post about the proposed Darkspace-Marine um i would like to know first of all what weapons i can expect in it,the system requirements hopefully not as demanding as planetside
i'm hoping we can use the current graphics engine and transfer it to DSM then again i'm not an expert i just like to play games
also what kind of vehicles will be added and will we be able to use fighter aircraft (for close air support on the enemy planet) hopefully every thing works faustus
by the way when can we expect it to come out just a idea (i'm assuming 3-4 years while u work on DS1) thats DSM i'm talking about and um what kind of ranks do they have for the marines (expect me to be the most trigger happy)
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A Troll =SSC=
Cadet
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 302
From: New Orleans,Louisiana
| Posted: 2003-09-03 15:35
oh yeah about getting scouting pres for finding new systems (and u mentioned very little pres for finding em ) i like but if u just found a new system u should get promoted to the next rank its something important
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Hell hath no fury like a shattered star.
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Crash003
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 12, 2002
Posts: 72
From: Chichester, UK
| Posted: 2003-09-03 15:39
cobra... if u got promoted to the next rank for finding a system... you would get midshipmans reaching fleet admiral within 2 hours of staring the game
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A Troll =SSC=
Cadet
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 302
From: New Orleans,Louisiana
| Posted: 2003-09-03 15:49
to a point ( shoulda added that in my previous post) if u are already of high rank (in the admirals club 2ra 1ra VA A FA)
u would only get about 200 300 pres wouldn't be enough to get u promoted instantly (still think it should be high)
just limit the pres gain when u get to the admiral ranks but don't limit till VA k please anyway can't wait till DSM Beta comes out (and i just heard about it too)
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