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Stations the big change * VERY LONG better get a drink ;) * |
Kaine Darkheart -SO-
Grand Admiral
Deicide
Joined: March 30, 2002
Posts: 458
From: Oshkosh, Wisconsin
|  Posted: 2003-09-01 19:02
1 JESUS COW... HOW MANY TIMES ARE YOU GONNA POST HERE.... 2 very good idea.. considering a dessy can take down a station as it is now... 3 i love the names of the kluth stations... and i love that theres more than 1 in the group... 4 i love the weapon selection... very diverce... 5 one of the better ideas ive seen
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Lord Wolfgang
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 14, 2003
Posts: 5
| Posted: 2003-09-01 19:32
An excellnt idea, adding more ships to the top end, but I think you still need to raise the rank system. A 80k rank and a 160k rank. Give some older players incentive. Being 3k from FA, theres not much to look forward to after that.
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DaMadCow
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 20, 2001
Posts: 407
From: A Farm
| Posted: 2003-09-01 19:56
what tart? And i guess after reading your guys positions i do think that adding missles would be a gret idea
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$yTHe {C?}
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: September 29, 2002
Posts: 1292
From: Arlington, VA
| Posted: 2003-09-01 20:01
youve posted like 7 or so times in this one thread (this is tart btw) lol
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Axianda The Royal
Fleet Admiral
Terra Squadron
Joined: November 20, 2001
Posts: 4273
From: Axianda
| Posted: 2003-09-02 05:11
I dont care how many time someone reply's cuz
1) it keeps the post up 
2) as long as there is good feedback we can get the layout better and better 
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Gideon
Cadet
Joined: September 14, 2001
Posts: 4604
From: Oregon, USA
| Posted: 2003-09-02 13:44
Some of the balance issues with stations are touched on in this thread.
Lemme just make a few points, you can concider them however you wish.
Dreanoughts have 350,000 hull. Stations have 1,000,000. This is the single largest jump between hulls for points, and stations have more than any other object in the game, barring planets and stars. I don't think their level of hull points is a problem, myself.
Smaller ships have a significant advantage due to their ability to avoid almost any fire from other ships. There has been discussed the possiblity of making P Cannons, Psi Cannons, and Railguns have an increased projectile rate (amung other changes like damage increased) so that they can be used as effective weapons against smaller ships.
Armour/shield hitpoints are scaled to be correct on something between and destroyer and a cruiser. The fact that larger ships have the same armour/shield points as smaller ships points out a significant error in basic design.
Weapon strength per device is scaled to be somewhere around cruisers. The fact that smaller ships fly around with occasionally more firepower than some larger ships indicates another design error. The battle dread can bring 7 weapon mounts and two heavy weapon mounts to bear on a target. Assault destroyers can bring three weapon mounts and four heavy weapon mounts to bear, resulting in a higher damage per shot and over 60 seconds of continual fire. Additionally, the assault dest has two of it's heavy weapons in full arc mounts, making it a great deal more versitile in combat than the battle dread. This is another reversal of logic, as you would think that smaller ships have less room for weapons and so sacrifice some turret capacity for firepower, where larger ships have more room and need more turrets to compensate for their lack of manuverability.
If you remove a station's engines, then you need to give them reactor(s). I'm not opposed to removing their engines, per se, but engines are the primary source of energy in this game.
Any vessel that travels with jump drives needs at least one sublight engine to perform alignment with it's destination. Otherwise the vessel will not be able to move at all, ever. I am not nessesarily opposed to this, but some other means (towed by ships, for instance) needs to be provided for mobility. Not having any engines means that a ship or station cannot turn.
Fighters will put any stationary object at the mercy of their carrier in v1.482. Concider giving any station a large complement of fighters with which to defend itself and conduct long range support operations.
Any stationary object will be at a severe disadvantage to a mobile object. Keep in mind that if you are in an immobile station, then mobile ships will dictitate the battle to you, and the station will lose. Making a station immobile may make it completely unattractive to any players at all.
Nothing wrong with using stations as assault vessels. The only problem is when they carry more troops than a well developed planet. In Star Wars, the Death Star carried a large ammount of surface troops, equipment, and vehicles, for instances when obliterating a planet was not feasable or attractive. It also carried a large number of anti-starship weapons which would allow it to theoretically demolish an enemy fleet. The only way the Rebels were able to take it out is because they had George Lucas on their side.
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...and lo, He looked upon His creation, and said, "Fo shizzle."
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Axianda The Royal
Fleet Admiral
Terra Squadron
Joined: November 20, 2001
Posts: 4273
From: Axianda
| Posted: 2003-09-02 14:13
Quote:
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On 2003-09-02 13:44, Gideon wrote:
Some of the balance issues with stations are touched on in this thread.
Lemme just make a few points, you can concider them however you wish.
Dreanoughts have 350,000 hull. Stations have 1,000,000. This is the single largest jump between hulls for points, and stations have more than any other object in the game, barring planets and stars. I don't think their level of hull points is a problem, myself.
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Well a lot of players think it is like i said before its a artificial planet its should be hell on earth when one shows up.
At the current rate 2 AC's can seriously cripple a station which is not right IMO.
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Smaller ships have a significant advantage due to their ability to avoid almost any fire from other ships. There has been discussed the possiblity of making P Cannons, Psi Cannons, and Railguns have an increased projectile rate (amung other changes like damage increased) so that they can be used as effective weapons against smaller ships.
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YES PLS its the thing we need against the small fly's not more HVY weapons but fast low damage weps that can get rid of those pesky fly's.
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Armour/shield hitpoints are scaled to be correct on something between and destroyer and a cruiser. The fact that larger ships have the same armour/shield points as smaller ships points out a significant error in basic design.
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this pretty much falls under the increase shield idea. we need a multiplyer or something.
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Any vessel that travels with jump drives needs at least one sublight engine to perform alignment with it's destination. Otherwise the vessel will not be able to move at all, ever. I am not nessesarily opposed to this, but some other means (towed by ships, for instance) needs to be provided for mobility. Not having any engines means that a ship or station cannot turn.
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Like i said allow the JD of a station to make a 360 degrees jump radius.
it will not have to allign anymore.
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Fighters will put any stationary object at the mercy of their carrier in v1.482. Concider giving any station a large complement of fighters with which to defend itself and conduct long range support operations.
Any stationary object will be at a severe disadvantage to a mobile object. Keep in mind that if you are in an immobile station, then mobile ships will dictitate the battle to you, and the station will lose. Making a station immobile may make it completely unattractive to any players at all.
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Im sorry but the 5Gu/s they have now is practically making them an immoblie target for ANY weapon.
the only thing a station now gets is a way to reach planets and be a 1 man planet capper.
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Nothing wrong with using stations as assault vessels. The only problem is when they carry more troops than a well developed planet. In Star Wars, the Death Star carried a large ammount of surface troops, equipment, and vehicles, for instances when obliterating a planet was not feasable or attractive. It also carried a large number of anti-starship weapons which would allow it to theoretically demolish an enemy fleet. The only way the Rebels were able to take it out is because they had George Lucas on their side.
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Like i said this moving station idea will guarantee make em a 1 man planet capper.
If we make them immobile they will NEED others to ferry the inf over making teamwork neccesary.
and we do not have luke skywalker as a player
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Gideon
Cadet
Joined: September 14, 2001
Posts: 4604
From: Oregon, USA
| Posted: 2003-09-02 14:40
FYI, stations are not artificial planets.
Despite what some people might think, the ships are not to scale with the planets/stars. Those arn't to scale with each other, come to think of it.
Faustus has expressed a desire to change some of the relative scaling.
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Axianda The Royal
Fleet Admiral
Terra Squadron
Joined: November 20, 2001
Posts: 4273
From: Axianda
| Posted: 2003-09-02 15:18
ok how about moon
in anycase stations in EVERY scifi show i've seen are the most feared things in the sereis/movie.
no enemy comes even near em unless they realy have a large attack force.
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Grimith
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 09, 2003
Posts: 836
From: Your local future farm.
| Posted: 2003-09-03 01:47
~...or are really crazy *points out his scout dancing tactics and self-d'ing* XD
~......anyway, the ideas in this forum have kinda like unscrewed the cap of my head. I read them before... and I've read them at least three or four times... the whole forum length... been reading it since it was put up... and... and...
~Ow...
~*rubs his head*
~Anyway, I like the ideas of new stations... Diversity's always good... well... almost always... And what you suggested be the weapons and armor and other stuff is original in its own way, I guess, so it works out... most likely kinks that will have to be tested out with crazy, mad fools that like charging huge stations...... but, hey, that takes a lot of skill. XD
~......but I need first-hand experience! I must reach Fleet Admiral! *chants*
~Once again, nice ideas...!
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Ceridan
Cadet
Joined: May 24, 2003
Posts: 608
From: Canada
| Posted: 2004-01-17 20:22
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On 2003-09-01 15:30, 42 wrote:
if you can't move, how do you orbit to refill your drones (ultra-precise jump?), how do you avoid jump gates if you come out of one? you'd be doing lots of double/triple jumping.
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/me points towards Supply ships
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-1st Rear Admiral Ceridan
stuck in Univercity limbo
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Ceridan
Cadet
Joined: May 24, 2003
Posts: 608
From: Canada
| Posted: 2004-01-17 20:37
Now for a contribution to this thread:
1: well lets put a special reactor slot(hvy reactor) on every stations, this will replace the IE drive(maintly because the IE drive is the main powersource on a ship normaly)
2: Stations MUST be imobile... the reason: they are 2 big to have an IE drive.
3: When they activate the wormhole they automaticaly enter it(to defend the landing place) also the wormhole should only be active for 1 min(or untill the player cut his Wormhole generator)
4: the Supply version has a barack, but it neads 5 units of Oxigen, 5 units of Metal and 1 worker(new res, limited by 2 per stack in a tranny).
Well im also sorry to have revived this thread
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Grimith
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 09, 2003
Posts: 836
From: Your local future farm.
| Posted: 2004-01-18 00:15
~This thread's been inactive for a long while, Ceridan. Where'd you find this one at? 
~Well, then again, these are still pretty nice ideas. Guess it's kinda nice to have them raised up and see if anyone else has any other suggestions or input on them (after all, it's been a few months. Things change!).
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boyzgotgame
Cadet
Joined: October 12, 2003
Posts: 2
| Posted: 2004-01-18 01:58
Trade/Repair Station Thingies
A station built by a engineer in deep-space.
AI controled station thats completly imobile, not even a wormhole or jd or anything. Limited weapons and shielding/armor but lots of ecm on the basis that it would be a secretive base made simply as a pit stop for reload and repair. Built in a place far enough away to not to be detected. A good idea would probably be a nebula. Mainly a reload/repair or in the case of the mv, as someone else mentioned earlier, a trading post. As it wouldnt show on the map like a planet would, it would be a safer place to repair. The engineer must have a high rank and/or badges to build this and the resources would come from the same resources used for getting a regular ship.
Just a VERY general idea...
P.S. This is not ment to throw out regular stations
P.P.S. My first post, how did i do?
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Baron Von Virtu
Cadet
Joined: November 01, 2003
Posts: 58
| Posted: 2004-01-18 02:30
I like the idea. But if the stations have no drive, what happens when they go somewhere with a dictor? And we should have about 3 or 4 different stations for each faction.
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