| Author |
Finding a Role for the Frigate |
Lupino
Cadet
Joined: March 23, 2002
Posts: 359
|  Posted: 2003-08-20 09:13
Quote:
|
On 2003-08-20 00:48, Jim Starluck wrote:
Plans A,B,C |
|
I think a combination of A&B would work, C just seems extreme
Quote:
| Anyway...I think it would be interesting if we did have frigates with dictors...not of the Cruiser caliber, possibly 250-500 gu range. Not all frigates would have it, only a certain class. They could also be the one class devoted to point-defense; lots of light beams. I'm thinking "Escort Frigate."
I'd also advise re-naming Assault Frigates to Patrol Frigates...they're not exactly suited to straightforward combat against larger warships.
|
|
Of course it would only be 250-500, we don't want a cheap substitute for the Interdictor  . That said, I would give the 'Assault' Frigates (Patrol does sound better) the dictor, the escort frigs would be much closer to the main fleet to swat down missiles and such.
Quote:
| if you are asking me, close range dreads must go. realistically, what would be the point of a close range dread? whats the point now?
if you wish, talking naval battles, when did you last see a dread/battleship/carrier engage a destroyer in close combat, effectively and on their terms? |
|
Agree, maybe the guns on a Dread would have a % chance of missing the smaller ships??? And more suited to medium-range slugfests.
_________________
\"Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately, it kills all its students!\"
|
Eleda
Cadet
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 438
From: Sunny ol England
| Posted: 2003-08-20 09:20
Quote:
|
On 2003-08-19 21:10, Lupino [RIP R33] wrote:
While good ideas, I still don't see it as giving the Frigate a role in the fleet.
|
|
Hmm, your right, sorry for detracting from the point of your thread, i will create my own for my suggestion
_________________
|
Max Kepler
Fleet Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: March 08, 2002
Posts: 589
From: ICS Victory
| Posted: 2003-08-20 09:39
Love the idea, Lup.  And I agree something must be done about close jump tactics, but no specific opinion ATM.
Quote:
|
On 2003-08-19 01:22, WDPFF wrote:
And then there is the cripple hunting. Frigates are the ideal ship for standing away from a battle and cutting down the wounded as they punch out. The frigates can be modified to carry almost as much armour as the cruisers, and while firepower is limited, your extra speed means you can pummel your targets engine arc while being essentially untouchable.
|
|
Problem is: Scouts work just as good. In fact, they are faster, their jump drives recharge faster, are more maneuverable, and their weapons are roughly equivelent. They have slightly less armor, but who cares? They can dodge better and are a smaller target in the first place. About the only thing that can kill them are beams, which you quickly get away from/stay away from with your speed.
Also note that a Frigate has 'almost as much armor as a Dread'. You could even say it has 'almost as much armor as a Station'. Not many ships have more than 4 or 5 shield/armor slots. Anyway, the armor of a Frigate can't take much... and the hull is even weaken.
_________________
|
Juxtapose
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 1308
From: Give me your bullets!
| Posted: 2003-08-20 10:59
I think Lupino's ideas for having a mini-dictor installed on Frigates is a great idea.
Fantastic, actually. Keeping the distance down to 400gu max (I would prefer 250gu), is key.
The way Interdictors acted as e-brakes on ships was ridiculous, if there is nothing else that comes with this patch, that fix (and it is a fix) will keep me satisfied. With pickett-ship dictors, the risk will still be high. Lets say a Dread falls out of a jump going 18gu because of the Frigates dictor field. That little ship better be facing the other direction because in a few short seconds it will be within range of an Alpha strike
This is good. There should be a balance to this. The Dread gets stopped from close jumping another ship, the frigate gets mauled if luck is against it, but has enough armor/shields/speed to escape death.
And yes! We got the Ship models made, so why is it soo tough to programme a few more varieties of Cruisers and Dessy's.
We need more variation in Dessy Class ships and below!
_________________
I type with the tongues of my enemies, ascend from the backs of my friends, ignore the plight of innocents, and dance on the graves of my gods
|
Victor Davion [TSLTB]
Cadet
Joined: May 31, 2003
Posts: 47
From: Canada
| Posted: 2003-08-20 11:00
for the escort frigate i would instead of chemical lasers all over it give it pulse lasers (or beams i don't know what it is) that way its more effective and can tackle loads of missles heading towards the fleet.
_________________
The universe is fundamentally flawed, as shown by the following mathematical problem:
9 x 6 = 42
|
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2003-08-20 11:46
I totally agree. There is nothing a frigate can do that can't be done better with another ship, sensor frigate being the sole exception.
I was gonna suggest that frigates become the new 'interdictor' ship instead of the cruiser (more extreme than your suggestion Lupino). But I still didn't think that was enough incentive to fly a frigate class.
Maybe allow mines only on frigates? Allow larger amounts of ECM/ECCM for all frigates like ICC's sensor frigate? Other than that, there isn't enough 'special' roles for ships that we can give to frigates without making the faction-specific devices frigate-only (and that's really not a good idea).
_________________
|
Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2003-08-20 12:17
frigates today are highly specialized, defense oriented ships.
they are not attack ships.
i do not think there are any "assault frigates" IRL.
giving frigates a role in the game will probably prove much easier with the upcoming special slot subclassing then it might seem now.
_________________
|
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2003-08-20 13:46
Mmm special slot subclassing...that will be really good for future frigates. That's the biggest problem, too few 'specials' and too few specialized ship roles.
_________________
|
Spiffmode the Unimpressed
Cadet
Joined: June 18, 2002
Posts: 102
| Posted: 2003-08-20 18:00
From what I recall (may have been dropped) F was planning on having CL's not always hit 100% that would work in the favor of the smaller ships.
I like the idea of a 500gu dictor field on a frigate, but I would say limit the speed somehow so if the frigate goes faster then 5-10gu/s then the dictor shuts off. I don’t like the dictors you cant catch (cough kluth).
Frigates are great, they usually cant take out a capitol ship, but they can really piss them off 
_________________
|
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2003-08-20 18:47
I think the original frigates of 100-200 years ago had the advantage of maneuverability. DS is similar to this: dreads turn slowly, scouts really fast, frigates a little slower than a scout, destroyers even slower etc.
Problem is maneuverability in DS doesn't count when you're hit with lasers. Considering lasers can hit from 150-200 range AND most projectile weapons are inaccurate against a moving target from farther than that range, small ships like frigates are only minimally useful.
Now, if lasers fired like the K'luth Psi Cannon (which I always pictured a spaceship laser doing, like Star Wars). then the smaller ships would be viable, with firepower traded for smaller chance to be hit. Otherwise the small ships need to stay out of laser range and hope their target isn't moving very fast. Vs dreads this can work although you aren't doing a heck of a lot of damage to them in a frigate; you're really just an annoying mosquito biting them, so to speak.
Coming from newbie, I can say that frigates have a hard time even damaging another frigate! Maneuverability doesn't even factor into it when your weapons can't do anything.
_________________
|
Lupino
Cadet
Joined: March 23, 2002
Posts: 359
| Posted: 2003-08-20 18:58
Well, that's what a laser is, a beam of light (what you see in Star Wars is not a laser ). And a frigate 200 years ago was just a class below a ship-of-the-line (aka Dreadnaught).
But back on topic, I think the Hvy Lasers need a big reductiong in accuracy against small targets. Think the Ion Cannon in Homeworld, there's a slight possibility you might hit a slow-moving fighter bomber, you're not evening going to touch an Interceptor doing a lot of Evasive maneuvers. That way a good fleet would be a mix of ships instead of the top-heavy fleet we see today.
_________________
\"Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately, it kills all its students!\"
|
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2003-08-20 22:15
Hehe laser or not, Star Wars lasers are a lot more fun than DS lasers  Sometimes reality needs to be sacrificed for the good of the game you know?
_________________
|
NightDragon
Cadet
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 893
| Posted: 2003-08-20 23:27
Quote:
|
Agree, maybe the guns on a Dread would have a % chance of missing the smaller ships??? And more suited to medium-range slugfests.
|
|
at range there is already a really good chance that the weapons will miss already
when was the last time you hit a smaller ship with fusion torps at long range?
_________________
\"Experience is a tough teacher. She gives the test first and the lesson after.\"
~ William H. O
|
Fatal Command (CO)
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: November 27, 2002
Posts: 1158
From: over here in New York noticing some ppl are like canoes.....they need to be paddled.
| Posted: 2003-08-21 00:31
well......destroyer never gets close enough 90 times out of a hundred to actually inflict more damage than the battleship(dread) USS New Jersey could toss a 16 inch shell 22 miles...and hit within 100 feet of target but...an inclose battle...dessie would win cause big guns point down only so far......lil ones point all the way up.....lol....realistically speaking....
_________________
|
Lupino
Cadet
Joined: March 23, 2002
Posts: 359
| Posted: 2003-08-21 06:37
Torpedoes are not "big guns" despite the current game issues. What we need are the equivilent of 16" guns for the dreads so they do what they're designed to do best (destroy captial ships) but suck at what they're not designed to do (destroy smaller ships, i.e. Frigates & Scouts).
_________________
\"Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately, it kills all its students!\"
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
