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Finding a Role for the Frigate |
Tiggy
Midshipman
Terra Squadron
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 282
From: Western Australia
|  Posted: 2003-08-21 07:29
My suggestion; As some have said, frigates are not combat; so give them specially made roles; ie, remove supply and engineer ships; just make them a type of frigate; also, remove the mine destroyers; make them frigates (Also, give mines a class of their own.) My opinion. Sensor frigates are one of the best ideas for the game; therefore; it's used a lot.
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-Baron Von Virtu
Cadet
Joined: December 21, 2002
Posts: 411
| Posted: 2003-08-21 14:29
I just want some bloody freespace style beam cannons! Then add some AAA for PD.
Attacking your enemy with little pinneedle lasers isnt cool enough 
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2003-08-21 17:53
Hmm big cannon-type guns for dreads...sounds good. They'd have to be space age of course, inaccurate vs moving targets (not quite as inaccurate as current missiles though), and have their own slot.
They'd also need some way to keep them from being used effectively at close range vs smaller ships, otherwise like plungedjet said, the advantage smaller ships have vs. battleships' large guns wouldn't exist, making the large guns the best choice for every situation (which just isn't true IRL). I don't think the DS engine supports a way to make projectile weapons not effective at close range besides splash damage?
(I also see, with this type of gun and no disadvantages vs smaller ships, a DS where nobody wants to fly anything BUT the big bad heavy hittin' dreads.)
There's also gonna be more weapons added in the future. We are severly limited in our choices now. So this may indeed be implemented
EDIT: I say dreads would be the only ship anyone flys because, right now, dreads don't get any weapon that a smaller ship can't get, just more of them. So the smaller ships remain a viable choice. If dreads get a super weapon without disadvantages, why use a smaller ship that could never stand up to it?
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[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2003-08-21 18:01 ]
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warren
Grand Admiral
Joined: April 18, 2002
Posts: 312
From: piney point, md
| Posted: 2003-08-21 21:36
frist how would you kill a frigate with a dictor on it youd never be able to kill one becuase nothing but beams will touch them
dreads should get big heavy weapons and lots of them and lots of armour but for that they should be slow. smaller ships should be fast lightly armored and have small piddly guns. small ships should have to gang up to kill big lumbering dread
now why would any one fly anything but a big nasty dread becuase you make them. jack up all the res requierments for dreads so you can only make a few of them like lots of meatls and stuff for them so you have to so around to all your star systems and farry meatls to one planet with a ship yard to get enough res for a dread
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[ This Message was edited by: Weasel man on 2003-08-21 21:44 ]
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2003-08-21 21:52
Quote:
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On 2003-08-21 17:53, MrSparkle wrote:
They'd also need some way to keep them from being used effectively at close range vs smaller ships, otherwise like plungedjet said, the advantage smaller ships have vs. ....
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Hmm. this part here makes NO sense
let's picture naval combat
Cruiser vs frigate
let's say frigate moves clsoe to cruiser. cruiser has a SORTER range to attack adn fires. frgiate is destoryed
let's say the firgate circles around the cruiser avoiding fire because of it's speed. it will will over time, slowly wearing it down
what i'm trying to say is, if your stupid enough to get cwithin 160gu of a dread, you DESERVE the alpha strike
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2003-08-21 22:11
I think you missed the point Fattierob (I did too a little I confess). Cruisers aren't the big ship being talked about. It's the dreads. Dreads are being compared to WW2 battleships, which could easily kill any ship at a distance. BUT...if a smaller ship could somehow close the gap and get into close range, the battleship's massive guns can't fire on that ship as well and it's lack of maneuverability makes it hard to keep that small ship in it's sights.
Granted, that never really happened in WW2 You have to go back to the days of the sailing ships to really see the advantage/disadvantage of big ships/big guns vs small ships/small guns. A point-blank hit from a ship-of-the-line could sink a frigate or even a galleon, but a small ship like a pinnace or frigate can maneuver itself to stay at the front/rear of the big ship...and that's exactly what they did, AND that's why pirates preferred smaller ships. They didn't approach from the side of the big ship, they came from the rear!
I should maybe edit my above post and add this: This new dread gun should be port/starbord ONLY and definitely not FULL. That could be it's disadvantage?
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Lupino
Cadet
Joined: March 23, 2002
Posts: 359
| Posted: 2003-08-21 22:12
Quote:
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On 2003-08-21 21:36, Weasel man wrote:
frist how would you kill a frigate with a dictor on it youd never be able to kill one becuase nothing but beams will touch them |
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Quite easily actually, you grab your own frigate and chase him down with Frigates and Scouts.
It would create a whole new level for fleet battles; the two groups of light ships aka Scouts and Frigates try to punch a hole in each other's line so the Destroyers, Cruisers and Dreads can jump through and engage the enemy fleet. Failure to send in your light ships could leave your fleet stranded 2000 gu from your enemy, waiting for your JD to recharge while he's pelting you with missiles and fighters.
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Ragglock
Marshal
BIOnics Industry Syndicate
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1955
From: Denmark
| Posted: 2003-08-22 04:58
only realy usefull frigate ftm and in beta is the Icc sensor frigate
1. all frigates only get scout missions, bomber, miner and attack frigates change that so they get defence missions or other kind of missions .
2. both ugto and kluth could use an frigate with more spicial mount slots
3. all frigates should as standard atleast have beacon as standard and 2 spicials minimum
4. higer speed power ratio eg more engines on them all
5. Reintruduce the elf wave (or something simmilar) as an option on the smaler frigates to make it an switc option with an light dictor device.
Reason for an small Range dictor on the frigate class ships would be an good idear.
its only gona get worse in the beta you have the jump in and out at full speed.
so an dred can target any smaller ship wind up the eng to full speed and exit jump at full speed, no matter how fast smaller hip flyes, it can alfa on it before the smaller frigate gets out of range even at max speed and show me the frigate that can take 2 full strikes for from larger ship with out getting totaly dammaged or dead and ill sell you the eifel tower for an cheap price.
Either way in beta when you jump into an dictor field ships don’t stop but flyes at the speed they entered the jump makes it nessary to increase the dictor range since most ships can close in to fast on target inside the dictor field so this need somekind of counter to.
so the small frigate dictor range on 1000 planet dictors on 2000 in this direction.
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2694
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2003-08-29 17:38
just back from vacation
im to bored to understand everything what you people babled about so let me react on a qoute
Quote:
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On 2003-08-19 11:30, Lupino [RIP R33] wrote:
Perhaps then you'd like to explain why dictor Frigates are a bad idea?
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you all screamd about no but its a start for me
>
why not let/give frigates somthing special that the can jump Truw a interdictor field or in it
theorie > there mass is to small to be stoped >next> every ship has its own interdictor ring
why not let them jump in at like 200 GU than even cruisers and a dres can be scared when some heavy modded frigates jump in a 80 GU
ok he may have CL2K one on the BBQ but its just to make the frigates more sutable to some tasks
im back to iritate you all
let me look further in the forums
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warren
Grand Admiral
Joined: April 18, 2002
Posts: 312
From: piney point, md
| Posted: 2003-08-29 20:52
Quote:
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On 2003-08-21 22:12, Lupino [RIP R33] wrote:
Quote:
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On 2003-08-21 21:36, Weasel man wrote:
frist how would you kill a frigate with a dictor on it youd never be able to kill one becuase nothing but beams will touch them |
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Quite easily actually, you grab your own frigate and chase him down with Frigates and Scouts.
It would create a whole new level for fleet battles; the two groups of light ships aka Scouts and Frigates try to punch a hole in each other's line so the Destroyers, Cruisers and Dreads can jump through and engage the enemy fleet. Failure to send in your light ships could leave your fleet stranded 2000 gu from your enemy, waiting for your JD to recharge while he's pelting you with missiles and fighters.
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i can see you havent had many fightings in frigs and scout becuase they never hit each other. nothing hits frigs and scouts but beams unless there idots that fly them. even if your with 25 gu of the other frig its is easy to dodge all the fire and if you do hit him it dose next to nothing damge
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Ramius
Fleet Admiral
Agents
Joined: January 12, 2002
Posts: 894
From: Ramius
| Posted: 2003-08-29 20:53
I say instead of giving frig's whole dictor fields, they should set up a "restraint buoy system." Say the frigate has 6 of these buoys. A picket line is forming with the rest of the fleet, so Mr. frig deploys a series of buoys, each one connected to eachother by a "dictor string" that merely stops ships if they past. The max range from buoy to buoy would b e 700-800 gu but they could be destroyed if targeted. This gives the fleet both warning and ample time to react all the while it doesnt make the buoys too strong and also gives the frigate a necessary advantage.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2003-08-29 23:18
Hey after testing out the beta scenario for a while I've come to this conclusion:
FA will soon be FrigateSpace!
So yes, frigates will indeed have a role. They will be for those lazy people who don't want to do anything to help their faction get shipyards and resources.
Making them any better would just make those players want to work for shipyards even less.
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Bad_Skeelz
Cadet
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 359
From: The Lobby
| Posted: 2003-08-30 00:11
Quote:
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Mr Sparkle wrote:
FA will soon be FrigateSpace!
So yes, frigates will indeed have a role. They will be for those lazy people who don't want to do anything to help their faction get shipyards and resources.
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Actually with destroyers and up requireing a shipyard which in turn requires massive amount of resources frigates will have a role in FA besides being for "those lazy people who dont want to do anything to help their faction get shipyards and resources". Their going to to be the ships that will hinder the other faction in getting the resources they need for their shipyards.
Scenario: The first hour of a FA game 15% of Team A is going to be in Engies getting mining and shipyard worlds up, the rest of the team will either be in mining ships getting resources or in frigates protecting the miners. Other players will be in frigates, but instead of protecting miners they will be attacking the other teams miners in an attempt to slow down their aquisition of resources. Others will be in bomber frigates attempting to damage the enemy planets to prevent them from reaching shipyard level.
So after the patch frigates will have a use in FA besides being for "lazy people". They will provide the only real defense for the engineers and miners and will also be the only ships capable of carrying the fight to the enemy (with the exception of some of the Scouts).
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2003-08-30 00:27
You're right of course Skeelz, but I wanted to get my point across which is, FA will see lots of frigate action, and if there's a lot of lazy people, that may be ALL you see on some maps.
EDIT: you know, I've also noticed that it really hurts the enjoyment of the game when the enemy can't get a shipyard. Fighting only frigates isn't fun, and it may make the enemy just log off if they can never get a shipyard up and running. I suggest NOT aggressively bombing their shipyard planets in FA.
When I'm in the beta, I WANT the enemy to get a shipyard. Yeah, some call me crazy, and some just get mad at me, but I've played where I've prevented the other side from getting a shipyard, and lemme tell you, it sucks. No shipyard for them = no targets higher than frigate from you, and it may = no enemies at all. It remains to be seen how this will all work out in FA. But I do see the same sort of thing happening. The side with their shipyard constantly bombed will log, the side with the big ships will find it boring fighting only frigates.
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[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2003-08-30 00:34 ]
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