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Antimatter Tech |
Deleted
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|  Posted: 2003-08-02 05:53
Dont tell me to Not tell you all to shut up all you do is cry cry about how you wont have the tech thats "better" who cares thats what makes this game so fun odds odds odds, So stop posting these retarted displays of retardation frankly it only proves that your a little brat that cant handle change so shut allredy all of you take what you get when fautsus is done if you dont like it the quit DS plez ..... ok im done
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Sandals
Fleet Admiral
Agents
Joined: January 21, 2002
Posts: 2001
From: Redmond,WA,USA
| Posted: 2003-08-02 05:59
I doubt many ICC players care if the AC gets knocked down a notch (which it will.) F
All I've seen out of the K'luth players is moan after moan about balance changes that we do not, frankly, know a damn thing about.
Before you bash Dr Crobe, perhaps not that he has spent a long time as K'luth- in fact still has a K'luth dreadnought in his sig.
ICC/UGTO will undoubtedly have changes as well- perhaps ones that some may consider 'nerfs'. I, for one, will not complain about it. There is no point. There is no point in K'luth players complaining about it. Devs will be pretty much anesthesized by whining (from all sides) byt he time 1.482 comes around, and our input won't have much impact at all. That's what I see coming if the current tone continues.
@ Arch. You posted a rather...blanket statement. All Demorian was asking was for you to back up your statement with reasons and such. There is no reason for personal attacks.
Bah. Forget it. Moderators, please lock this thread, I think it's gotten out of hand and only has the potential to get more out of hand.
What we need is civilized debate, or at the least loud shouting without personal attacks. It is easy to get frustrated when people do not accept your arguments- however it will not change ANYONE's mind when people rant and rave and insult.
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g0ds s0ldier
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: October 24, 2002
Posts: 954
| Posted: 2003-08-02 06:05
Like i said b4 i dont care about Kluth losing CL tech that much, its not much of a bother to me...
UGTO is losing the multi-flux, which is just as good as Kluth Losing CL tech imo..
what does ICC lose? lol Multi-Pulsewaves? they dont use Multi-Pulsewaves already...The strongest faction (ICC) is only gonna get stronger...Whille the weakest faction (UGTO) loses its only weapon....
i know they wanna make kluth hit and run, theres no prob with that with me...maybe taking CL tech from us and making us use ruptors will make us run out of energy faster and make us jump out, that would shift us towards hit and run, also since we will mostly use Dessies so we will have to run even faster b/c of the weak hulls/armor the dessies have...
what exactly will we do when ICC/UGTO invade one of our planets? hit and run? then hit and run again? then hit and run again?
Looks to me ECM forts will be in even more use.
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[ This Message was edited by: g0ds s0ldier on 2003-08-02 06:11 ]
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Valerius{DK}
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 03, 2001
Posts: 595
From: Island of Zealand
| Posted: 2003-08-02 06:07
I don't know if you guys have noticed, but most people seem to be complaining about the other ones having more reactors, or more armor, etc... Well guess what, THATS INTENDED. You can seriously think that two completely cultures go into war and all there ships, though they look differently, fly around in EXACTLY the same ships.
Each faction has something the other ones don't, they all have their respective faction-only techs like Kluth with ELF, ICC with PD and UGTO with Flux. They are all working to make the factions distinct and there tactics aswell. If you make all ships the same, THEN you ruin the game.
Myon
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g0ds s0ldier
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: October 24, 2002
Posts: 954
| Posted: 2003-08-02 06:13
exactly ships shouldnt be the same...
Kluth are pose to be the Hard-Hitting faction right? fine with me the energy runs out quik and the Armor is close to nothing...
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2003-08-02 07:01
*cough*
if you are asking me, the kluth disruptor should be their primary weapon, not torpedoes..
the disruptor should have its firing cycle duration increased.
actually id like to see a kluth destroyers with something along the line of 6 more powerful ruptors and max. 2 or 3 other weapons, and that in an energy configuration that allows for 2 shots before having to slow down and regenerate energy.
that would make them really vulnerable in a dictor field again, and of course the kluth dictor cruiser should be replaced by a anti-sensor field cruiser that could serve as moving cover.
of course the cloak needs a total rework as well, as well as ship hull and armor values and lots of other things..
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-=Arch=-
Cadet
Joined: July 10, 2002
Posts: 214
From: *CLASSIFIED*
| Posted: 2003-08-02 10:08
OK Dem ... youve got a point. I did sorta lash out at you with a personal attack. I apologize, but I some-what stand by the INTENT of what I was saying.
I look at alot of your posts as very biased at times, It appears to me that they are meant to do nothing but "Always take something away" from the Kluth faction. As a proud member of the faction, I for one dont want to be nerfed, as you can agree Im sure If it was an uggie nerfing you would to.
So, to answer your question after my original post as to my elaborate reasoning for my idea is simple.
The best way to control ballance is to make everyone different. We are in your opinion overpowered due to the use of Cl2K's. Ok, we are loosing them .... but what we as Kluth dont see is what about the things that WE feel are overpowered in the OTHER factions.
UGTO - Flux (Even I liked Fluxing peeps to death) but that is being fixed. Ive heard the argument that 1 wave wont do as much, my response is ... ok, so you have to get someone down furhter in armor before its affective. I did a test with an UGTO yesterday, 1 WAVE still rips systems on antyhing other than a shell with low armor. Besides, you guys still can mount alot of flux cannons, they are in my opinion almost as bad, but thats a perk for UGTO.
Kluth - Loss of CL2K's, A Cloak that is all but worthless, low armor, energy problems, forward firing weapons. Need I say more. The loss of the 2K's is gonne hurt. What in my opinion is what make us overpowered is our numbers. You guys fail to take into account sometimes that its not 1 dessy hitting you with 4 CL2K's ... its 5-6 hiting you 2 times and having to recharge. Besides, most of us are miners anyway now and rely on our mines to disable you. So, my opinion is its not going to change much, just make me more energy conscious.
ICC - I havent seen, heard or read anything that is going to happen, change or affect the ICC. Lets face it, an ICC player that has half a brain can effectively stop capping in a system with multiple pulse to eliminate bombing, and the RAX issue. I for one fear a good pilot with an AC loaded up with AM Torps. I as Darkworde said, watch certain players more than others based upon thier skill as a pilot and loaded wth AM. Its my opinion, and that of most of the kluth, that the AC with AM torps is THE most powerful boat in the MV.
So, back to your question. Why Id like to see it that all tech is faction specific. It would be easier for F to adjust the properties of tech for a single faction rather than inadvertantly increasing the power of another by the changes. I would like to see it as far as ....that even a build will not cross factions. It would make it so that ICC/UGTO/KLuth space is nothing but thier type planets. Id like it to go as far as after you cap a planet you cant even access the hub, and that you have to scrap it all and build your own.
-Arch-
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Demorian
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 06, 2001
Posts: 3406
From: Charlotte, North Carolina
| Posted: 2003-08-02 10:44
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So, to answer your question after my original post as to my elaborate reasoning for my idea is simple.
The best way to control ballance is to make everyone different. We are in your opinion overpowered due to the use of Cl2K's. Ok, we are loosing them .... but what we as Kluth dont see is what about the things that WE feel are overpowered in the OTHER factions.
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Of course every faction has it's overpowering aspect. That's part of what needs to be fixed... after all, "balance" is the accomplishment of making all three factions similar, yet different in the respect that players can develop an attachment to one side. This creates a game in which players choose a faction based on personal preference alone, not on which can win the easiest or kill the fastest.
That's balance... so as for making everyone "different", you are right to a degree... every sentence about balance is based on the degree on which you want to change what you're suggesting. Usually, anyway 
We do want the 3 factions to keep their unique tech and configurations as long as the impact they have on their enemies is proportionate to each other, but at the same time we don't want any faction to be universally stronger in combat than the others. Balance means they are equal, yet the senses of sight and interpretation tell us they are different.
So, yea. To a degree. 
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UGTO - Flux (Even I liked Fluxing peeps to death) but that is being fixed. Ive heard the argument that 1 wave wont do as much, my response is ... ok, so you have to get someone down furhter in armor before its affective. I did a test with an UGTO yesterday, 1 WAVE still rips systems on antyhing other than a shell with low armor. Besides, you guys still can mount alot of flux cannons, they are in my opinion almost as bad, but thats a perk for UGTO.
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Yea, I think it should definitely just be one per ship. I think they should do minimal system damage per wave, so it would take multiple fluxes or an assortment of EMP weapons to get systems down to, say, 50%. I also am kind of leaning toward the armor-must-be-down rule for all but EMP mines, rather than the original "it doesn't matter" approach I took in my ideas on the 1.482 thread I started.
I think EMP mines should damage systems no matter what, cuz think about it... it's a CONCENTRATED explosion of Electromagnetism, unlike the cannon or the wave. IT should do some direct system damage, just not much per mine. Remember the balance principle... because it is easier to get through armor with, it's gotta do less damage to systems.
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Kluth - Loss of CL2K's, A Cloak that is all but worthless, low armor, energy problems, forward firing weapons. Need I say more. The loss of the 2K's is gonne hurt. What in my opinion is what make us overpowered is our numbers. You guys fail to take into account sometimes that its not 1 dessy hitting you with 4 CL2K's ... its 5-6 hiting you 2 times and having to recharge. Besides, most of us are miners anyway now and rely on our mines to disable you. So, my opinion is its not going to change much, just make me more energy conscious.
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I still think cloak should only be deactivated by special player devices or by planetary sensor bases. There has to be something, especially with planets, that totally disengages cloak so that ships/planets have a fair chance to defend themselves.
On the other hand, I think cloak needs to change so that no matter what the ECCM/ECM, as long as youre not firing weapons, if cloak is on, you're hidden. No matter how close you get to enemy ships. That'd be better for the K'luth players, duncha think?
The rest of what you said is for the beta servers, I think... but I will say one thing about making you energy conscious... that is a GOOD thing... I think energy first came into the game to make players think about what they were firing and when, rather than just firing volley after volley of all of their weapons at once... I honestly think that eventually, this is how the game is going to be for all factions.
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ICC - I havent seen, heard or read anything that is going to happen, change or affect the ICC. Lets face it, an ICC player that has half a brain can effectively stop capping in a system with multiple pulse to eliminate bombing, and the RAX issue. I for one fear a good pilot with an AC loaded up with AM Torps. I as Darkworde said, watch certain players more than others based upon thier skill as a pilot and loaded wth AM. Its my opinion, and that of most of the kluth, that the AC with AM torps is THE most powerful boat in the MV.
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So, back to your question. Why Id like to see it that all tech is faction specific. It would be easier for F to adjust the properties of tech for a single faction rather than inadvertantly increasing the power of another by the changes. I would like to see it as far as ....that even a build will not cross factions. It would make it so that ICC/UGTO/KLuth space is nothing but thier type planets. Id like it to go as far as after you cap a planet you cant even access the hub, and that you have to scrap it all and build your own.
-Arch-
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I honestly think ship customization should be taken out of the game.
Yup. At least until we design a patch where everything can be faction-specific and every faction has different technologies for every slot type that they can use. These technologies would be the same in number with the other factions... (ie let's say there are 3 different tech types for the Heavy Beam slot... so K'luth would have 3 different tech types for the Heavy Disruptor slot), and they would be balanced with their equivalent.
I am strongly against these "upgrades" being simple "stronger than the last version, ya just gotta research it first" upgrades. This is how it currently is with the Heavy Beam slot (CL1k > CL2k)... No weapon in any tech group should be significantly stronger than any other, and if it is, it needs to take up a LOT more energy, or a LOT more time to charge, and why?
Balance isn't about having all the right upgrades to make you stronger... it's knowing which upgrades you like to use, knowing that each one gives you no specific advantage over the stock version of the weapon slot in combat. That's what researchable tech should be.
-Dem
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Drafell
Grand Admiral
Mythica
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 2449
From: United Kingdom
| Posted: 2003-08-02 10:44
I agree with Arch on the build issue. Each faction should only be able to build its own building. Even if you pick up an enemy build module it should just work as your own factions, although any race specific buildings that are left on a planet should still work as normal unless destroyed. The hub should automatically switch to a tech level relevant to the planet stuctures built, but with the tech of the controlling faction. Any addition items such as advanced weapons would need to be researched before being produced.
this in itself would cause restricting of tech to specific factions, unless of course you can salvage these items and retrofit them to your vessels or you can sell them to a planet which will keep them in stock until someone else buys them. Maybe a building such as a trading post would be necessary for this.
[ This Message was edited by: Drafell (Recruiting) on 2003-08-02 10:49 ]
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g0ds s0ldier
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: October 24, 2002
Posts: 954
| Posted: 2003-08-02 10:53
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On 2003-08-02 10:44, Demorian wrote:
On the other hand, I think cloak needs to change so that no matter what the ECCM/ECM, as long as youre not firing weapons, if cloak is on, you're hidden. No matter how close you get to enemy ships. That'd be better for the K'luth players, duncha think?
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Agreed
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-=Arch=-
Cadet
Joined: July 10, 2002
Posts: 214
From: *CLASSIFIED*
| Posted: 2003-08-02 12:03
Lemme ask ya this .. are you guys trying to create a game where basically all the ships are the same except for a different look and paint job ? IE, all ships have the same weapons, you cant change them, they all are equal up and down the line.
the game would be where there isnt a chance of skill and good modding practices being the edge, its basically numbers and who shot who first.
Gotta disagree with ya Dem, I kinda like being able to mod my boat to my personal playing style. I mean Ive seen peeps mod a boat wrong, get wasted and cry about it later .... makes no sence. Or what may work for one, doesnt work for others. ect ect.
Im just for keeping it faction specifc. I dont care, and Im sure most Kluth feel the same, about anything human except 2K's and MIRVs.
Oh, and since we are on the topic of MIRVs / BIO .... I ask that if BIO bombs cannot do structure dammage, then instead of it affecting one block. It should be like gassing the entire planet. hit it a few times with a BIO and it wipes the inf and POP, then requires a length of time to disapate before you can rebuild.
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Sven
Cadet
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: January 11, 2003
Posts: 278
From: Vancouver, Canada
| Posted: 2003-08-02 12:10
Then why dont you take everything away from us ( like you people do ) and we have Kamakazie wars in space?
People running into each other to see if they can do 5% dmg max...
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2003-08-02 12:39
Also Kluth wont have any PD with ruptors until 1.482.
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Demorian
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 06, 2001
Posts: 3406
From: Charlotte, North Carolina
| Posted: 2003-08-02 13:54
@Arch...
Hehehe. That's not what I said. Read it over.
Or just read my explanation here... again... I think that all interchangeable weapon slots should not fit a set of weapons that just gets increasingly stronger, because then DarkSpace becomes a matter of who researches the stronger weapons first and can fry the enemy faster.
What I said actually goes with what you said: Playing Style.
I think that other techs for the same slot should be balanced out... a more powerful weapon than the CL2k, for instance... would have a very long charge time and a moderate energy drain, and it wouldn't be too much stronger than the CL2k... so the player gets a choice of weapon, based on personal preference and "style".
The possibilities are endless.
-Dem
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DOM700 [-IMO-]
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 26, 2001
Posts: 3175
From: Eckental, Germany, Sol-System
| Posted: 2003-08-02 15:35
@Demorian That's just my opinion, as well as Gideon's (talked about that with him some months ago already)
Modding is NOT supposed to make your ship stronger, it is supposed to add new strength for new weaknesses
This is currently NOT what's going on, just take a look on light/heavy armor and the 2 shields, why should you mount the light versions?
Why should someone currently mount ruptors?
Why should someone currently mount p cannons?
Why should someone use reactor 1000?
Many more things could be added to show that balance in this case means to give every gadget its right to stay in the game by having a certain strength and a certain weakness
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