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did sparrows just get nerfed or buffed? |
Stevefin
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 13, 2007
Posts: 35
|  Posted: 2010-06-24 19:50
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On 2010-06-24 19:15, Talien wrote:
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On 2010-06-24 19:05, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
I wasn't here when this happened but i heard way back when luth dessies could kill dreads, did icc support these dessies?
Did the icc go "Finally some station/dread killers" Or did they go QQ nerf!
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I wasn't there for that either, but from what I've heard those DDs could kill DNs SOLO, and didn't require them to be in packs of 3+ focusing on the same target to do any real damage.
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Its a fine line to tread when it comes to balancing the smaller ships to atleast be helpfull against the big ships.
They can't be too powerfull to the point of soloing bigger ships and winning
but they also can not be too weak that they are ignored
You have to find the middle line, which the frigete upgrade is trying to do
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Antra
Admiral
Agents
Joined: February 16, 2002
Posts: 657
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
| Posted: 2010-06-24 20:50
What I'd like to know is how the other two missile types are faring. Are people even using them?
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jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
| Posted: 2010-06-24 20:56
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On 2010-06-24 09:34, Talien wrote:
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On 2010-06-24 08:27, jackbob wrote:
anyway all you really need to do is fix the sparrow missle arc thats it if the arc is fixed it can be shot down problem solved.
it means you don't have to moderfie the values you don't need to reduce the amounts you don't need to remove it you just need the arc fixed
once thats done if they still complain then they are really stupid because they clearly can't pd for there life.
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The ballistic arc is one of the things that makes them useful on the smaller ships, the only "fix" that's really needed as far as that goes is have them also fire in a ballistic arc from the Harrier Frigate.
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 sadly some people do use the escort dessies and there equivlents so when a missle cruiser see there missles are not getting through because of the escort ships GET A MISSLE FRIGATE insanly high arc can't shoot it down and then whats the point of those ships might as well call them the not very useful class of ships.
i was not thinking about my self i can escape sparrows easy i was thinking about those people that accually love to use escort dessies well if they anit going to be any use then are they. except when the other side decide not to use sparrows (which at the rate they are doing i rather side with not happening rather to happening its a safe bet don't you agree)
and on the level the only time someone is going to jump a missle frigate with a indercator is if theres more then 3 (other wise you jump with out it one missle frigate can do harm but its very hard for it to kill a station with out a supply ship)
and antra from what i have seen NOPE
[ This Message was edited by: jackbob on 2010-06-24 20:57 ]
[ This Message was edited by: jackbob on 2010-06-24 23:43 ]
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2010-06-24 21:29
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On 2010-06-24 20:50, Antra wrote:
What I'd like to know is how the other two missile types are faring. Are people even using them?
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The ar missle seems weakest but with ar (obviously) and speed recommended if fighting small ships (because the only reason a MF is out there is to kill a station never used) , peregines are the middle ground in speed/turning rate and damage (again not useful because the MF is there to kill a station) Sparrows hurt the most and is used because of that
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-06-25 01:03
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On 2010-06-24 19:05, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
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On 2010-06-24 19:02, Talien wrote:
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On 2010-06-24 17:00, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
If all you used were missled frigs you did nothing better than if 8 ads pjed and mash spacebar, you jumped 1.5k ish away THEN mashed the space bar
i wasn't there, but MF spam doesn't seem like teamwork
*note he didn't say a mixture of ships beat him up, a SPAM of ships beat him up*
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So now that there's an effective counter to UGTO Station spam, using a lot of one type of ship is suddenly lame and cheap? If hypocrisy had a scent I'm sure we'd all be gagging on it right about now.
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I wasn't here when this happened but i heard way back when luth dessies could kill dreads, did icc support these dessies?
Did the icc go "Finally some station/dread killers" Or did they go QQ nerf!
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LOL at QQ'ing mushroom driver.
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Lux (Polaris)
Fleet Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: April 20, 2004
Posts: 835
From: Asgard
| Posted: 2010-06-25 01:32
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On 2010-06-24 19:02, Talien wrote:
So now that there's an effective counter to UGTO Station spam, using a lot of one type of ship is suddenly lame and cheap? If hypocrisy had a scent I'm sure we'd all be gagging on it right about now.
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Well said, Talien.
As was mentioned, 10 frigates being able to defeat one Support Station doesn't seem very overpowered to me. Maybe if the UGTO team had coordinated with the station they could have formed an effective counter? More PD, more ECCM, ships to hunt down and break up the Frigates, perhaps?
...in any case, if you're flying unsupported in a station you're pretty much a mobile prestige mine. Shrooms are not self-sufficient and invincible starships, despite them being at "the top of the food chain" when it comes to rank and prestige needed to fly one. Especially the Support Station.
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ICC Security Councilor - Raven representative
Loyal Admiral of the Interstellar Cultural Confederation Navy.
Senior Commander of the Raven Warriors, the ICC elite.
Captain of the Assault Dreadnaught \"Gungnir\"
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2010-06-25 02:47
referring to the battle today:
we had a 5 station on 5 station fight, to which the UGTO killed the ICC off.
we fell back and switched tactics.
they went to planet to rep thier big ships, we went to planet and swapped to ECMing missile spewing glass cannons.
we came in under the cover of ECM and started singling targets out 1 by 1.
most of us kept moving fast, but a couple of us managed to have a dread land on thier face and eat them in one volley.
when those dreads did that, the FC called them primary as they were stuck outside rep range and couldnt jump out.
we killed dreads before thier JD's were even close to being charged, and they came in one at a time, piece meal. like snacks to the pirahna swarm.
steveyK even got so pissed off at us that he would undock an EAD we had just killed and pointjump straight onto us. but we had learned and would do a quick ejump/cancel and proceed to face smash. must have killed him 8 times.
we systimatically murdered the UGTO fleet that was a comparable size to ours, but because they refused to get out of thier dreads and stations, we killed them and they were frustrated. they had TWO pilots that swapped out to corvets and frigates. we couldnt kill them, and those two pilots against our ten were actually deadly enough that we had to drop a couple guys to get into anti smallship ships.
so to say that the missile frigate is OP, is blatant idiocy, and a firm refusal to adapt.
the Kluth had no qualms about us doing this, especially pakhos. there was so much ECM going on that when he decloaked in his scarab and laid patches we didnt even see him, but we sure felt him when randomly someone would blow up for no reason.
at the end of the fight, once UGTO had ctrl-q'd, there was one station sitting atop a line of sup depots, and we just couldnt kill him. he was dropping to our frigates, but we would run out of ammo and have to rearm and there was too much point defence around, which gave him time to rep up, and he ended up tanking about 14 missile frigs. so again we adapted.
3 frigs swapped out for 3 missile dreads. we saturated his point defence with IT spam, and that allowed enough PCM's and missile frigs to get hits on him that he died.
so lesson learned UGTO, missile frigs will be deadly and effective against dreads and stations. cruisers and below.... not so much.
Learn to adapt, instead of stamping your feet in a tantrum.
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Sputter{TB}
Grand Admiral
Interstellar Cultural Confederation United
Joined: September 22, 2004
Posts: 109
From: Pennsylvania
| Posted: 2010-06-25 03:05
hmm.... , it seems that some people don't understand what is really going on, no one seems to have patience. I think its because they don't understand that things are being added 1 at a time in the effort of balancing if everyone would qq less and wait i'm sure stationspace will go away because once new MD comes out no amount of stns or reps will help if thats all they are using.
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jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
| Posted: 2010-06-25 03:20
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On 2010-06-25 01:32, Polaris {ISC} wrote:
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On 2010-06-24 19:02, Talien wrote:
So now that there's an effective counter to UGTO Station spam, using a lot of one type of ship is suddenly lame and cheap? If hypocrisy had a scent I'm sure we'd all be gagging on it right about now.
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Well said, Talien.
As was mentioned, 10 frigates being able to defeat one Support Station doesn't seem very overpowered to me. Maybe if the UGTO team had coordinated with the station they could have formed an effective counter? More PD, more ECCM, ships to hunt down and break up the Frigates, perhaps?
...in any case, if you're flying unsupported in a station you're pretty much a mobile prestige mine. Shrooms are not self-sufficient and invincible starships, despite them being at "the top of the food chain" when it comes to rank and prestige needed to fly one. Especially the Support Station.
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excuse me i was on when died 1000 deaths blew up i was there it was a 2 missle frigate and we could not do a thing except point jump them as pd was useless. it was comming in so god dam high it was not funny
a missle is supose to be able to be pd in routeto the target hence the escort dessy and assault cruisers and torp cruisers. to take away there usefulness as a pd ship againsts a bunch of frigates with bloody missles is really quite weird (i don't care if the station blows up because people use them way to much i anit like the people that they unlock there first dread and now only use them untill they get there ship raped 100 times) my main use is to pd incomming missles and then slam close range weaponary into the player firing them.
now i am resorted to pj with out being able to shoot down a single missle the arc is insanly high a wolf pack of frigates are supose to be able to take out larger vessles but 2 because we couldn't pd them dream on.
oh there might have been a missle dread there but its missles were not getting through only the missle frigates one was even tho i was in the way.
[ This Message was edited by: jackbob on 2010-06-25 03:26 ]
[ This Message was edited by: jackbob on 2010-06-25 03:28 ]
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2010-06-25 03:36
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On 2010-06-25 03:20, jackbob wrote:
excuse me i was on when died 1000 deaths blew up i was there it was a 2 missle frigate and we could not do a thing except point jump them as pd was useless. it was comming in so god dam high it was not funny
a missle is supose to be able to be pd in routeto the target hence the escort dessy and assault cruisers and torp cruisers. to take away there usefulness as a pd ship againsts a bunch of frigates with bloody missles is really quite weird (i don't care if the station blows up because people use them way to much i anit like the people that they unlock there first dread and now only use them untill they get there ship raped 100 times) my main use is to pd incomming missles and then slam close range weaponary into the player firing them.
now i am resorted to pj with out being able to shoot down a single missle the arc is insanly high a wolf pack of frigates are supose to be able to take out larger vessles but 2 because we couldn't pd them dream on.
oh there might have been a missle dread there but its missles were not getting through only the missle frigates one was even tho i was in the way.
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and yet you stayed in a large ship.
dont procreate.
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jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
| Posted: 2010-06-25 04:05
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On 2010-06-25 03:36, Meko wrote:
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On 2010-06-25 03:20, jackbob wrote:
excuse me i was on when died 1000 deaths blew up i was there it was a 2 missle frigate and we could not do a thing except point jump them as pd was useless. it was comming in so god dam high it was not funny
a missle is supose to be able to be pd in routeto the target hence the escort dessy and assault cruisers and torp cruisers. to take away there usefulness as a pd ship againsts a bunch of frigates with bloody missles is really quite weird (i don't care if the station blows up because people use them way to much i anit like the people that they unlock there first dread and now only use them untill they get there ship raped 100 times) my main use is to pd incomming missles and then slam close range weaponary into the player firing them.
now i am resorted to pj with out being able to shoot down a single missle the arc is insanly high a wolf pack of frigates are supose to be able to take out larger vessles but 2 because we couldn't pd them dream on.
oh there might have been a missle dread there but its missles were not getting through only the missle frigates one was even tho i was in the way.
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and yet you stayed in a large ship.
dont procreate.
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oh yeah i decided to stick in my torp cruiser after i relised it was useless give me a break i anit like most ugto i am devirse i prefer torp cruiers assault destroyer assault cov and the interceptor frigate to the blasted dreads i could be using that carrier dread like most vice admirals.
so answer this when was the last time you saw me in one?
Try a couple of months ago only use it for seiges and thats about it.
the only 2 dreads i would probley like would be the ead and the command carrier thats about it.
the stations ss and command (used correctly not for slug fest and think my armor is impentrable)
infact when i finaly unlock dreads on senenerio which ship do i usally dash for not the dreads the cruisers and below so if you want to claim i am not diverse (and i use to be a former icc and kluth player) please go and actually watch me in combat for a change you might actually learn about the ships i prefer to others for once.
rant over
shouldn't need to fix anything except arc or flight speed damage would be fine if you could actually shoot the thing down.
[ This Message was edited by: jackbob on 2010-06-25 04:07 ]
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Sops
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 490
| Posted: 2010-06-25 05:19
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On 2010-06-24 17:11, Azure Prower wrote:
Try getting 10 people and focusing on 10 different targets. Then come back and tell me its not team work.
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I must be some kind of natural born leader then, whenever I fly a sparrow frigate I seem to accumulate a following all focusing firing without even trying to.
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Schroedingers Gun
Fleet Admiral
Joined: April 24, 2010
Posts: 99
From: favour6
| Posted: 2010-06-25 08:43
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On 2010-06-25 05:19, Sops wrote:
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On 2010-06-24 17:11, Azure Prower wrote:
Try getting 10 people and focusing on 10 different targets. Then come back and tell me its not team work.
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I must be some kind of natural born leader then, whenever I fly a sparrow frigate I seem to accumulate a following all focusing firing without even trying to.
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co-ordinating ICC is like herding cats
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Rebellion
Marshal
Faster than Light
Joined: June 20, 2009
Posts: 730
From: sol
| Posted: 2010-06-25 09:05
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On 2010-06-24 06:46, Drafell wrote:
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You act as if Destroyers and Cruisers aren't scheduled to get new missiles, and as if those missiles will mirror AR/IT performances.
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If only people realized...
The current design concept for missiles on each tier should limit them to a maximum of about 6 per ship. Compare this to a missile dreadnoughts current loadout, then start worrying about just how powerful each missile is going to be to envision this concept.
[ This Message was edited by: Drafell on 2010-06-24 06:49 ]
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if you dont put enguph missles on a missle Dreadnaught then PD will just shoot em down and thay will sease to exist
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GunRunner
Marshal
Joined: October 17, 2003
Posts: 72
| Posted: 2010-06-25 09:31
Fixing cruisers will fix this issue.
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