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Bardiche Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006 Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2010-03-20 21:06  
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On 2010-03-20 20:45, Challenger wrote:
Sure, let ICC increase their shields' recovery rate. And then let K'luth and UGTO rotate their armours. Then we can all be the same...
Sounds good, right?
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No. First of all it is important to know that ICC shields are weaker than UGTO/K'luth armour individually, but they take longer to repair than UGTO armour under three depots. In return, they repair faster without any supplies involved, which is useful during combat when you're away from the fight for a few moments.
The entire point of this debate is to argue speeding up ICC shield regen outside of combat, so that they can fight sooner and do not need to spend so much time in cool down so their shields can regen, at least for the big ships. I haven't seen anyone suggest "increase regen rate" or "make them repairable like armour". Even the OP doesn't suggest that, explicitly saying it should be a device usable only outside of combat, or with such heavy penalties combat usage would be mad.
I would completely argue for UGTO and K'luth cooldown to be removed as well by letting ships repair in the shipyard. As an arcade game where you can jump into combat, having fast-paced combat is a definite plus. There is no reason you should spend fifteen minutes out of combat (possibly long after combat has ended) simply to ensure your ship is back to fighting standards- and then wait again for your other five ships.
And even then, a ship with 100% armours is servicable in combat and usable, no matter the hull. A ship with 50% armour but 100% hull likely has worse chances of survival due to exposure to damage, and system damage being the bane of all jump drives.
TL;DR
This thread is moreso aimed at reducing the cooldown and needless wait times rather than it aims at making the factions uniform. ICC love their shields, just as Jim demonstrated a Dreadnought needs to spend 6 minutes at apparent minimum (with upgrades to recovery speed and using aux generators) to get back to work. 8-9 minutes seems a more realistic number, and that nets you almost an hour if you have six ships which need to wait out that time.
It's all about reducing the time spent recovering from combat so that you can spend it in combat.
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Jim Starluck Marshal Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001 Posts: 2232 From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2010-03-20 22:03  
Note that the same Combat Dread, when fitted with Reactive Shields, went from 0-100 in only two minutes. In fact the aux shields took longer to recharge than the Reactive Shields themselves.
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CM7 Midshipman Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009 Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2010-03-21 03:29  
as it stands an icc force = to a ugto force.. say 3 stations and 3 dreads.. fighting the ugto at one of their "depot planets" is impossible and will only lead to defeat and withdraw if precautions are not taken. It's been my fleets policy to burn the planet the ugto are hugging first at all cost, then engage the ugto themselves.
take this situation and reverse it, UGTO attack ICC at their depot planet. And the ugto have a margin of success, be it a small one. This comes from icc loosing arguably over 70% of their defensive capability after five minutes of battle... this advantage cannot be easily overcome and usually ends up in a jump to deep space for 20 minutes to repair... ive seen it again and again and again and again..
(this observation is my own and does not reflect the view, or stance of the dev team)
_________________ Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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Kenny_Naboo Marshal Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010 Posts: 3823 From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-03-21 04:16  
I don't really play ICC, but what here's what I think.
Armor is a physical object. And shields are basically some energy/force fields projected around to deflect or absorb incoming fire.
Logically speaking, shields should regenerate faster than armor.
And if we want to think more logically, armor and hull should not be able to be repaired to 100% while out in space. Ships out at sea can do patchwork repairs at most.
Realistically speaking, any ship that takes damage to its armor and hull should take longer to repair said items, and they shouldn't be able to be repaired to 100% while out there. Only a drydock/SY or supply plat should be able to do this.
But yes.... this is a game, and there are sacrifices to be made in the name of balance. So UGTO and K'Luth ships can repair/heal themselves to 100% hull/armor. So can ICC.
But I kinda agree that the shields might be taking too long to recharge. Makes them weak.
So if I may suggest.... perhaps we can double the charging rate of ICC shields.... but reduce the strength by a third. It gets depleted fast, and it recharges faster too. Should be fair enough.
_________________ ... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
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Pakhos[+R] Chief Marshal Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002 Posts: 1352 From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-03-21 04:32  
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On 2010-03-21 04:16, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
So if I may suggest.... perhaps we can double the charging rate of ICC shields.... but reduce the strength by a third. It gets depleted fast, and it recharges faster too. Should be fair enough.
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Ok... but what about our energy? No kluth ship could run after icc with that kind of tweak.
_________________ * Josef hands [PB]Quantium the Golden GothThug award for best melodrama in a miniseries...
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CM7 Midshipman Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009 Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2010-03-21 05:23  
no no there just needs to be a way for us to repair shields 20% or so faster with planet depos or supply plats (not reload drones)
IMHO
_________________ Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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Great Budda Fleet Admiral Pitch Black
Joined: January 01, 2008 Posts: 157 From: Omaha, NE
| Posted: 2010-03-21 05:28  
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On 2010-03-21 05:23, Defiance{R33}*XO* wrote:
no no there just needs to be a way for us to repair shields 20% or so faster with planet depos or supply plats (not reload drones)
IMHO
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Like shutting off the shields which will leave you vulnerable but regenerates shields faster?
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CM7 Midshipman Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009 Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2010-03-21 05:32  
yea something like that.
icc is the defencive faction.. that being said their def is just fine... what needs adressed (again in my own opinion) is their repair time,
_________________ Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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CM7 Midshipman Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009 Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2010-03-21 05:35  
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On 2010-03-20 22:03, Jim Starluck wrote:
Note that the same Combat Dread, when fitted with Reactive Shields, went from 0-100 in only two minutes. In fact the aux shields took longer to recharge than the Reactive Shields themselves.
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lol.. that is the point of reactive shields mate..
but u go out in a dread fit with all reactive shields... and expect to die.. alot!
unless your fighting dessy class ships
_________________ Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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BackSlash Marshal Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003 Posts: 11183 From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-03-21 06:57  
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On 2010-03-20 05:44, BackSlash [R33] wrote:
We ideally want to increase recharge the longer you're out of combat, but since it's rather well balanced right now (data is a wonderful thing), we're going to leave it until such a time as we can impliment it without flaw.
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Yes, we like the idea. Yes it makes sense. Yes it further balances the playing field in certain situations wherein other factions have an increased chance of survival.
Yes. [ This Message was edited by: BackSlash [R33] on 2010-03-21 06:58 ]
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Azreal Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004 Posts: 2816 From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-03-21 07:24  
The only way this could be done and not be too op in a battle situation is if they have to shut shields down, or some kind of an interlock so that it has to be done OUTSIDE of battle. There should not be a ship added to the mix that can ride shotgun repping shield energy and armor. That would break balance. But if we're talking about something that can be done outside of battle, when everyone is repping up, sure.
Yes I know you have to have shields on to re energize them. Now that is. Maybe that could change.....It's the only way I could see this working at all.
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Kenny_Naboo Marshal Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010 Posts: 3823 From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-03-21 09:56  
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On 2010-03-21 04:32, Pakhos wrote:
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On 2010-03-21 04:16, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
So if I may suggest.... perhaps we can double the charging rate of ICC shields.... but reduce the strength by a third. It gets depleted fast, and it recharges faster too. Should be fair enough.
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Ok... but what about our energy? No kluth ship could run after icc with that kind of tweak.
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You're right. I overlooked that factor.
K'Luth energy expenditure would have to be tweaked somewhat.
And then the Uggies will start banging on the table for some concession.
It'll never end.
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On 2010-03-21 07:24, Azreal wrote:
The only way this could be done and not be too op in a battle situation is if they have to shut shields down, or some kind of an interlock so that it has to be done OUTSIDE of battle. There should not be a ship added to the mix that can ride shotgun repping shield energy and armor. That would break balance. But if we're talking about something that can be done outside of battle, when everyone is repping up, sure.
Yes I know you have to have shields on to re energize them. Now that is. Maybe that could change.....It's the only way I could see this working at all.
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I believe Azrael has the answer.
ICC needs a Star Trek style "Raise/Lower shields" function.
Once shields are down, they recharge at double the rate.
_________________ ... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
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Sens [R33] Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008 Posts: 1020 From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2010-03-21 09:56  
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On 2010-03-21 06:57, BackSlash [R33] wrote:
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On 2010-03-20 05:44, BackSlash [R33] wrote:
We ideally want to increase recharge the longer you're out of combat, but since it's rather well balanced right now (data is a wonderful thing), we're going to leave it until such a time as we can impliment it without flaw.
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Yes, we like the idea. Yes it makes sense. Yes it further balances the playing field in certain situations wherein other factions have an increased chance of survival.
Yes.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash [R33] on 2010-03-21 06:58 ]
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did you just quote yourself?
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Zero28 Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006 Posts: 591
| Posted: 2010-03-21 10:03  
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On 2010-03-21 05:28, Great Budda wrote:
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Like shutting off the shields which will leave you vulnerable but regenerates shields faster?
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i suggested that many times and i hardly got a reply on it lol
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NoBoDx Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003 Posts: 784 From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-03-21 11:57  
like i said in op:
give the bigger icc-ships an extra item to recharge shields, but make em vulnerable to dmg, maybe ( dmg taken x 3 ) or somthing like this, so you've to use it out-of-combat
The item itself would recharge the icc-shield within ~ 20 seconds or so
the penalty would last as long
other possible penalties while recharging:
- shut most of the ship down:
-- engines off
-- shields off
-- weapons offline
-- sensors (ecm / eccm / scaner) offline
-- internal scanner reduced (those you use to detect ships etc nearby)
-- drain all of the energy
- becom easy detectable:
-- raise sig by a big amount (maybe + 50 or even + 100)
i'd prefer the "shutdown your ship" penalty [ This Message was edited by: NoBoDx on 2010-03-21 14:13 ]
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