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I may be removing ship modding... |
sentryjs
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: April 03, 2003
Posts: 28
|  Posted: 2005-07-21 20:33
I must say, I could live with these changes Ent has quoted.
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2005-07-21 20:45
WHY does so many feel the need to mod? if theres more stock variations of every ship theres NO NEED for any modding! and the game gets THAT much easier to balance then having to keep track of every players favourite mod and see if its balanced enough.. :/
u just HAVE to mess things up dont ya?
whats so wrong with stock ships?
and dont say that the weapons will be useless, who says that Faustus wont beef the weapons up if he DOES remove modding?
ur just trying to convince Faustus to keep the modding in so u can keep your uberships that doesent need much of any support whatsoever against anything but a zerg of enemies.
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WinterRose
Fleet Admiral
Joined: April 12, 2002
Posts: 126
From: WinterRose
| Posted: 2005-07-21 20:55
I *POSITIVELY* **LOVE** Drafell's ideas. 'sept the beacon/cloak one. Just leave that alone.
But I lovelovelovelove that idea far more than a total removal of modding.
When I first saw the thread about the consideration of it being removed. I was indifferent. I couldn't think one way or the other.. But now, I really don't want it taken out.
Why? Because I'd rather look with uncertainty at a battle-dread coming at me. Not sitting there and going 'Let's see.. 6 missles, 10 particle cannons..' blah blah. You know? You come up against a ship you gotta immediately choose your tactics based on what gets slung at you. A MD? Does it sit back and fling missles at me? Rush it! Or does it toss a huge load of torpedos? Try to get behind it!
Really, I'd much prefer a more dynamic style of combat over a seeing a ship and knowing *EXACTLY* what it's gonna be shooting me with.
[ This Message was edited by: WinterRose on 2005-07-21 20:55 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-07-21 20:55
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I *POSITIVELY* **LOVE** Drafell's ideas. 'sept the beacon/cloak one. Just leave that alone.
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Lovely how people forget me.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2005-07-21 21:08 ]
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-Admiral Dylan Hunt
Vice Admiral
Praetorian Wolves
Joined: December 14, 2002
Posts: 63
From: New York
| Posted: 2005-07-21 21:03
i agree with you faustus....i think it would make things alot easier...less complicated indeed
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
| Posted: 2005-07-21 21:06
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On 2005-07-21 15:35, CharAznable wrote:
How about setting up some kind of MV player Balance..
and if the player count is not 33.3%
and if the player cumlitive prestige is not 33.3%
then give some incentive to balance things out.. like hmm i dont know.. how about a modifier for the Undermaned or Newb faction...
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Doesnt anyone else see the need for a Player balance in the MV? How cant makking sure that modding or the lack of modding not be dependent on this?
-Charz
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Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2005-07-21 21:39
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On 2005-07-21 20:45, Jar Jar Binks wrote:
WHY does so many feel the need to mod? if theres more stock variations of every ship theres NO NEED for any modding! and the game gets THAT much easier to balance then having to keep track of every players favourite mod and see if its balanced enough.. :/
u just HAVE to mess things up dont ya?
whats so wrong with stock ships?
and dont say that the weapons will be useless, who says that Faustus wont beef the weapons up if he DOES remove modding?
ur just trying to convince Faustus to keep the modding in so u can keep your uberships that doesent need much of any support whatsoever against anything but a zerg of enemies.
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Jar Jar, sadly... thats exactly what we're seeing here... and this is really what has lead DS into it's current state, listening to people who are interested only in their own personal gain in the game.
Look, it's REALLY simple... modding and upgrading, take such a large amount of time an effort (earning the credits, finding the parts, etc...) ... so once you've got a modded ship, you'll do anything and everything to keep from getting destroyed. This is what detracts from the core of this game which is combat.
Look I want players to have ownership in the game... but I'm realizing that the ownership should be in anything else except your ship... ownership in planets, ownership in platforms, your prestige and rank...
Because, once you give the player ownership in something that can be destroyed, they try their best to protect it.... because once that ship is lost or destroyed, guess what I've got a pissed off subscriber / player.. he / she is going to go off and bad mouth the game, get mad, unsubscribe, etc...
I'm sorry, but I'm afraid that ship modding / upgrades are just not working well with the core gameplay. Anyway, the key word here is "MAY", like the title suggests.... right now, I'm only bring this subject up for discussion.
-Richard
[ This Message was edited by: Faustus on 2005-07-21 21:41 ]
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I am Batman
Cadet
Joined: September 17, 2004
Posts: 17
| Posted: 2005-07-21 21:48
I like being able to change up weapons for one, you can make a ship for a specific role. The upgrades do get out of hand. Perhaps maybe cut the weapons down to only a couple types for each faction. I take pride in my personalized ships. For some reason i don't remember having this problem a year ago or it not being as bad at least.
You could have 2 types like there are now: launcher and mounted weapons. The level of the weapon would be as suggested based on class.
Only have 2 types of launcher weapons: missiles (fast and manueverable) and torpedos (slower and deadly)
Have 3 types of mounted weapons: beams (like chem lasers and disrupters), long range projectiles (gauss or rail guns), and short range projectiles of some sort (particle or emp with lowered range)
Larger ships such as dreadnaughts could have a main weapon that can't be replaced like a seige cannon of some sort. Something to make them the scary dreadnaught.
I also like the different auxilary slots for reactors, ecm, and those types of devices. This is balanced because you have to choose which benefit you want. If i want my reactors to help power weapons, then i can't use ecm to hide my signature. That is fair.
The different resources create strategy. Maybe reduce this to metals and heavy metals or precious metals.
A factory doesn't necessarily have to build the items, just create the ability to purchase the 5 weapons (missile, torp, long range projectile, short range projectile, and beam) and the faction specific devices. There is no selling, you click buy, it says where do you want it to go, you click the spot (also what hardpoint is what needs to be defined) and it is mounted in place of what was there. The planet would then lose resources based on the weapon or device type. Each faction would have similar weapons or devices.
From what i have heard people enjoyed the older versions of the game. I don't think necessarily making it too simplistic is the way to go. Please keep a sense of personal touch in the game.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-07-21 21:49
Players like custimization. They wont feel so protective if the res loss isnt so high. Modding WORKED in 1.480, 1 and 2. There were TINY problems with slots, like flux, which have now been fixed, aswell as elf.
If you take away levels from 1.483, its near perfect. It just needs a bit of work to get on track. I dont believe removing modding is the best solution.
Faustus, perhaps you could read the email I sent you, or the post draf made on page 5 of this thread. Its a detailed solution to getting this game back to how its supposed to be, yet keeping core bits that the players want.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2005-07-21 21:51 ]
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Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2005-07-21 21:51
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On 2005-07-21 21:49, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
Players like custimization. They wont feel so protective if the res loss isnt so high. Modding WORKED in 1.480, 1 and 2. There were TINY problems with slots, like flux, which have now been fixed, aswell as elf.
If you take away levels from 1.483, its near perfect. It just needs a bit of work to get on track. I dont believe removing modding is the best solution.
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Your not saying anything new... and if it's working so damn good, where are all the subscribers 
Look, if you have to spend an hour modding / upgrading your ship.. then your not going to be very happy about it getting destroyed.
Jeeze, thats why we have so many ship configurations already.. so we'll have a ship for every possible role, but is balanced against other factions simular ships.
Methinks, the only reason people want modding is so they can find exploits...
[ This Message was edited by: Faustus on 2005-07-21 21:53 ]
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Max Kepler
Fleet Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: March 08, 2002
Posts: 589
From: ICS Victory
| Posted: 2005-07-21 21:51
Do it.
While you're at it, revert back to the original Pre-release in as many ways as possible. That game (it's so different now, it can hardly be called the same game) was so much fun. Nowadays... meh.
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MunitionsMan
Cadet
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 6
| Posted: 2005-07-21 21:51
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On 2005-07-21 20:45, Jar Jar Binks wrote:
WHY does so many feel the need to mod? if theres more stock variations of every ship theres NO NEED for any modding! and the game gets THAT much easier to balance then having to keep track of every players favourite mod and see if its balanced enough.. :/
u just HAVE to mess things up dont ya?
whats so wrong with stock ships?
and dont say that the weapons will be useless, who says that Faustus wont beef the weapons up if he DOES remove modding?
ur just trying to convince Faustus to keep the modding in so u can keep your uberships that doesent need much of any support whatsoever against anything but a zerg of enemies.
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no one feels the need to mod put simply they just like doing it a lot of people find modding and then fighting with those modded ships fun and for the record i also like drafells and backslashes suggestions
[ This Message was edited by: MunitionsMan on 2005-07-21 21:53 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-07-21 21:57
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On 2005-07-21 21:51, Faustus wrote:
Quote:
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On 2005-07-21 21:49, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
Players like custimization. They wont feel so protective if the res loss isnt so high. Modding WORKED in 1.480, 1 and 2. There were TINY problems with slots, like flux, which have now been fixed, aswell as elf.
If you take away levels from 1.483, its near perfect. It just needs a bit of work to get on track. I dont believe removing modding is the best solution.
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Your not saying anything new... and if it's working so damn good, where are all the subscribers
Look, if you have to spend an hour modding / upgrading your ship.. then your not going to be very happy about it getting destroyed.
Jeeze, thats why we have so many ship configurations already.. so we'll have a ship for every possible role, but is balanced against other factions simular ships.
Methinks, the only reason people want modding is so they can find exploits...
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lol Faustus, read the post on page 5, we said modding would be instant, and restricted. Please read it carefully. If modding is pretty much instant (5 mins tops for dreads). Then people wont be so angry about losing it. Its only 5 minutes, and maybe not even that.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2005-07-21 21:58 ]
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r3dj4ck
2nd Rear Admiral
Joined: June 24, 2005
Posts: 37
| Posted: 2005-07-21 22:01
I see your points Faustus. And I agree with them to an extent.
However, I'm inclined to believe that it's the current state of the modding system (modding taking forever to do because of factory queues, parts being hard to find, parts/upgrading being expensive with only mundane mining/trading to make income) in addition to the hefty prestige loss that makes the loss of an "uber ship" so painful. If the modding system were simplified to something like the aforementioned proposals I'm sure there wouldn't be nearly as much crying going on.
I fear that the complete loss of a modding system would turn DS into little more than battlefield1942 with spaceships. Which in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. But it just seems kind of bland to me.
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Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
| Posted: 2005-07-21 22:08
This thread should get its own little corner in Hell.
I've never seen that much Bull**** gathered up in one thread. Realy.
Current issues with the game:
Lag:
Get rid of fighters.
To Buy items just present us a list of available items at the starport (depends on tech level of the planet and faction). No more factory building ques or starports filled with items. (even if that does not help against lag, itl be very convenient to have)
Lalala i have no money:
As far as i remember everyone got that 5 mil coupon and dieing woint cost creds anymore (great change imho, once you have the money you can relax). Give every new subscriber 5 mill too, they can gain more if they want later on via mining/missions/whatever.
Balancing issues:
Unbreakable ICC dessys, paperware kluth supps, eccm pinging, beacons (make em removable by drones, make em visible to enmy players, reduce the duration by half): fix those too (seem to be the most important).
Fly and die:
reduce the impact of resource lost on pres lost.
Be my b****:
Bring grouping back (read earlier post) to support teamplay and give newbies a chance to gain badges in mv. That is virtualy impossible for newbs, gaining combat badges because their ships.... cant realy do damage (of course they could hunt in packs quite efficiently, and some icc dessy pilots are good in that regard, but most newbs cant do jack without guidance)
Reward a higher ranking player for teaming up with lower ranks with a nice "look im a newb friend" -like badge that does nothing but look good.
That would solve the "newbs are useless" issue too.
It all would suplement the current version.
whats left?
"Going backwards will NEVER get you to your destination."
P.S: Te current upgrade/modding system is fine as it is. The problem is the basic layout of SOME ships ruining the whole stuff. Fix THOSE ships and dont ditch the whole system.
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