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New Station Missile Layout |
Krim {C?}
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: June 24, 2002
Posts: 362
From: Boston MA
|  Posted: 2011-06-30 14:07
I've noted that the Support Station classes are getting new Tier 3 heavy Missiles.
These are amazing (they can destroy a destroyer in a single volley)
But i've noticed (at least on the UGTO SS) that they launch ventrally (from the bottom) When they do this they shoot out fast and then thier angular velocity relative to thier target tends to be very very high, even at a constant speed the missiles can miss and shoot from ventral to dorsal against a target, missing it. (this is even worse at close range). While I'd appreciate this as a forceful way of saying "Don't fire misiles at close range" we already have a code in place where they have a minimal distance to fire.
I also see that it's an attempt to minimize friendly fire. Which is more important, minimizing FF or actually hitting your target hmmmmmm.
Also, i'd love to see some data on the LDM/Harpex etc... even if just a comparison beyond thier descriptions
As a Side note the Battlestation, compared to the relative firepower of the new missiles on the Support station doesn't seem very battle oriented. Even with 4 more QST than the SS and a few more heavy beams, I feel like a BS is not the best pick (it also has 1 reload not 3)
People who know me know I don't do Station Space, but if I'm going to risk taking out my King chess peice I should (IMHO) have Short, mid, and long range firing options, it's a battlestation afterall. Especially with the relative strength of the new missiles, no one would need to assault a station like the BS at close range, a missile dread could just launch 2 dozen tier 3's and take it out without getting into Core T3 projectile/hvy Beam range. The BS doesn't seem like a BS when you compare it to the (near equally) offensive SS. Mind you I haven't looked at the other faction's stations yet either which I will do later
[ This Message was edited by: Krim {C?} on 2011-06-30 14:13 ]
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Xydes
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 07, 2009
Posts: 276
From: England
| Posted: 2011-06-30 14:31
The Ganglia is going to be one crazy ship I can tell you that!
And the Hive... PEW PEW... Need I say more?
Its like a BS, Its got Long and Short ranged weaponary, ALOT of Shroud Missles... It seems Luth got a nice Long Range buff here. Its going to be fun playing as luth in Orion when the patch comes out!
-DX
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-06-30 15:28
Quote:
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On 2011-06-30 14:07, Krim {C?} wrote:
I've noted that the Support Station classes are getting new Tier 3 heavy Missiles.
These are amazing (they can destroy a destroyer in a single volley)
But i've noticed (at least on the UGTO SS) that they launch ventrally (from the bottom) When they do this they shoot out fast and then thier angular velocity relative to thier target tends to be very very high, even at a constant speed the missiles can miss and shoot from ventral to dorsal against a target, missing it. (this is even worse at close range). While I'd appreciate this as a forceful way of saying "Don't fire misiles at close range" we already have a code in place where they have a minimal distance to fire.
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So basically it launches it's missiles in a (albeit reversed) ballistic arc like the first iteration of the ICC Missile Frigate?
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Adapt or die.
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Blackjack [DBL]
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light
Joined: February 25, 2011
Posts: 344
From: The land of venomous reptiles.
| Posted: 2011-06-30 19:13
Quote:
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On 2011-06-30 14:07, Krim {C?} wrote:
I've noted that the Support Station classes are getting new Tier 3 heavy Missiles.
These are amazing (they can destroy a destroyer in a single volley)
But i've noticed (at least on the UGTO SS) that they launch ventrally (from the bottom) When they do this they shoot out fast and then thier angular velocity relative to thier target tends to be very very high, even at a constant speed the missiles can miss and shoot from ventral to dorsal against a target, missing it. (this is even worse at close range). While I'd appreciate this as a forceful way of saying "Don't fire misiles at close range" we already have a code in place where they have a minimal distance to fire.
[ This Message was edited by: Krim {C?} on 2011-06-30 14:13 ]
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The new Missile dred has a similar launch but from the dorsal area of the ship. The fact they have full-arc missiles is very useful (if they hit)
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-06-30 20:14
Missiles just aren't short range, even if you can fire them at short range.
Its a flaw that I think is more of a feature. And believe it or not, its not actually that big of one in practice.. if you know what you are doing.
Under about 600gu, you're going to have trouble hitting anything smaller than a Dread and I'm okay with that.
Under 600 gu though, and you can still detonate the missiles because they come close enough. And trust me, it hurts. The AoE is strong enough on T3 missiles to seriously hurt.
The wise thing to remember is that this patch's goal is to eliminate weapons and ships that can respond to any situation. Granted, that stations now are strong enough to be very resistant to single attacks, multiple attacks from the right ships makes them vulnerable.
This patch emphasizes teamwork more than anything, and picking a ship now will isolate you into a role that if you come up against a ship that is designed to fight you, its a good idea to have someone there to help you.
There is still a little flexibility, but after testing the missile layouts myself I can see nothing I wouldn't expect them to do, and are way better than current release. They are as close to perfect as I can imagine them to be.
Just don't be upset when an EAD wise enough to get under the minimum range of a Hive (but not close enough to get hit by its beams) beats the hell out of you.
-Ent
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-06-30 23:50
Quote:
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On 2011-06-30 14:07, Krim {C?} wrote:
I should (IMHO) have Short, mid, and long range firing options, it's a battlestation afterall.
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You want a do it all ship? This patch fixes your OP shrooms.
-SS for long range fleet support. Requires dreads to protect it close range.
-BS for front line action. Get it in there in your face and pound the enemy. It has to have a weakness, and that weakness is its lack of long range weaps.
You just want to have your cake and eat it don't you? 
You want a solution? Here's the solution. Mix your ship classes up. Don't just fly a single OP type.... They don't exist no more....
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-06-30 23:52 ]
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Krim {C?}
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: June 24, 2002
Posts: 362
From: Boston MA
| Posted: 2011-07-01 01:50
Quote:
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On 2011-06-30 23:50, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-06-30 14:07, Krim {C?} wrote:
I should (IMHO) have Short, mid, and long range firing options, it's a battlestation afterall.
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You want a do it all ship? This patch fixes your OP shrooms.
-SS for long range fleet support. Requires dreads to protect it close range.
-BS for front line action. Get it in there in your face and pound the enemy. It has to have a weakness, and that weakness is its lack of long range weaps.
You just want to have your cake and eat it don't you?
You want a solution? Here's the solution. Mix your ship classes up. Don't just fly a single OP type.... They don't exist no more....
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-06-30 23:52 ]
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Thats not what I meant in the slightest. But a BATTLE station should excel at combat, and nothing else. As in this patch the BS. What i'm saying is with T3 missiles, the SS is more battle oriented than the BS. I dont even want the damn cake. To be perfectly honest
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-07-01 03:21
Quote:
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On 2011-07-01 01:50, Krim {C?} wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-06-30 23:50, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-06-30 14:07, Krim {C?} wrote:
I should (IMHO) have Short, mid, and long range firing options, it's a battlestation afterall.
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You want a do it all ship? This patch fixes your OP shrooms.
-SS for long range fleet support. Requires dreads to protect it close range.
-BS for front line action. Get it in there in your face and pound the enemy. It has to have a weakness, and that weakness is its lack of long range weaps.
You just want to have your cake and eat it don't you?
You want a solution? Here's the solution. Mix your ship classes up. Don't just fly a single OP type.... They don't exist no more....
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-07-01 05:22 ]
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Thats not what I meant in the slightest. But a BATTLE station should excel at combat, and nothing else. As in this patch the BS. What i'm saying is with T3 missiles, the SS is more battle oriented than the BS. I dont even want the damn cake. To be perfectly honest
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I actually tried both the SS and BS in beta.
The SS is a good long range ship. It's better off hugging a planet with a dico and defending it. It will need a BS or some other dreads close by for support. Upclose, it only has a couple of QSTs and all its beams. Which, honestly speaking, is pretty decent firepower. But it definitely needs support against 2 or more dreads. It's a station!! It will tank it for awhile, but it's not supposed to be invincible like it is now.
The BS was built for close in fighting. That's a whole crapload of QSTs (6 out of 8 at a given facing) and beams you're talking about there. Pair it off with a couple of dreads or an SS and it should still be able to hold its own.
They both still can fight, but it's just a matter of WHAT type of fight. Choose the right tool. You're not gonna get a Fight-it-all station anymore. Live with it.....
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Krim {C?}
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: June 24, 2002
Posts: 362
From: Boston MA
| Posted: 2011-07-01 09:25
Quote:
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On 2011-07-01 03:21, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
They both still can fight, but it's just a matter of WHAT type of fight. Choose the right tool. You're not gonna get a Fight-it-all station anymore. Live with it.....
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I don't want a do it all station, jesus what i'm saying is that the SS seems more "battle" oriented than the BS given the strength of the T3 missiles.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-07-01 09:51
Missiles get PDed, beams and cores don't.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2011-07-01 09:53
Quote:
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On 2011-07-01 09:25, Krim {C?} wrote:
I don't want a do it all station, jesus what i'm saying is that the SS seems more "battle" oriented than the BS given the strength of the T3 missiles.
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yea right, on that note my MD and the luthy ganglia are are more battle-oriented than a full-fledged warmachine like AD or siphon, just bcuz their anti-capitalship weapon deals consistently high dmg to dreads.
even tho that station is called 'battle' its actually a big fat beamXcore platform (ding dong, beams do high dmg now). if that missile mushroom can kill dessies in 1 hit then that xenon mushroom can kill cruisers in 1 alpha (which wont take long, just 3 secs).
a battlestation will lose to a hive at medium and long range (about 500-1000 and 1000-1500) but a hive will lose to a battlestation at about any range below 500. also note that 1 frig with EW and PD can foil them flying death missiles to death (pretty much like a tactical nerf which is good in every right).
sooooo...Your argument, it's invalid.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-07-01 12:32
To me personally, it seems backwards. Battlestations should get the longer range, high damage missiles, and support stations should get the shorter range cores and beams that also act as defense vs missiles and fighters.
Battlestations aren't as suited to actual battle, are they?
It's one of those situations that can't really be predicted, but has to play out live for a while. Will battlestations be worth using, or will support stations rule the day? Will missile dreads be causing more carnage than assault dreads?
We just don't know yet.
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Rebellion
Marshal
Faster than Light
Joined: June 20, 2009
Posts: 730
From: sol
| Posted: 2011-07-01 12:54
lol the new ICC assault dread wont be doing much assaulting...i mean get rid of the sheilds and put armor???????????? why just becuse depots are finally getting nurfed we get armor...i mean really?
sorry if this is a bit off topic.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-07-01 13:11
Quote:
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On 2011-07-01 12:32, General Zod wrote:
To me personally, it seems backwards. Battlestations should get the longer range, high damage missiles, and support stations should get the shorter range cores and beams that also act as defense vs missiles and fighters.
Battlestations aren't as suited to actual battle, are they?
It's one of those situations that can't really be predicted, but has to play out live for a while. Will battlestations be worth using, or will support stations rule the day? Will missile dreads be causing more carnage than assault dreads?
We just don't know yet.
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Remember that missiles can be shot down. Core weapons, torpedos, beams, cannot.
With just an inch of EWAR and some PD, and it wont do anything.
Like all missile ships, it supports the battle, it doesn't rule it. If people choose not to fly with EWAR support and get mauled, then whose fault is it?
Battle Stations will still do more damage, just because they dont have to rely on their shots not getting shot down, and believe me, that makes all the difference in the world.
-Ent
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Krim {C?}
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: June 24, 2002
Posts: 362
From: Boston MA
| Posted: 2011-07-01 13:42
True enough, I suppose In my Beta testing I was looking more at damage output. And yes with the kluth to cloak, and the icc to pulse missiles aren't going to do as much damage anyway
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