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 Author A few Ideas on fleets and ships
HaVoX
Fleet Admiral

Joined: September 07, 2003
Posts: 269
From: Florida whoo hoo
Posted: 2004-05-31 17:46   
I think that with the new release and the inclusion of the dip patch some changes wouldnt hurt.

One change to help promote fleets and fleet actions in the MV would go like this,

ship use in game play would be limited by fleet resources, meaning that if as a example.

Stations: one station per every 10 planets owned by a fleet (default 1 station per fleet with enough members for a forum.)

Dreads: one dread per every 3 planets owned by a fleet (default 2 dreads)

no limit on smaller ships

default means you get that number of ships plus the planetary number if you qualify in game play at the same time.

example 10 planets = 2 stations and 5 dreads in the game at the same time.

Given the harder to aquire nature of dreads and stations they should be much harder to kill. Dreads by their name alone should be able to fend of 3 to 4 cruisers with ease by way of more hull, amour and weaponry. Dreads should really only fear a large amount of smaller ships or other dreads. They also should incur a larger amount of lost pres for losing them. All the posts I have seen on stations being non moving and more dangerous to approach falls in with this as well. Self destructing should be met with a 3x the normal pres loss for wasting resources unless boarded.


Grand Admirals should recieve a bonus ship that no one else can get and only one could be in game play at a time. I would call it a capital ship and make its def and offensive capabilitys double that of a dread. It would also have the ability to use both WHII devices and jump drives but only be able to spawn at a faction gate. The reason for the gate thing would be that given its size it should be unable to orbit a planet and carry a very large amount of inf to be ferryed to planet side. It should have 2 reloads for itself only and unable to sup anyone else (thats what stations and sups are for). This would allow for a mobile combat comand vessel with the ablilty to provide troops for a system invasion with the support of a station for fleet maintenance.

I would call the GA ships Capital Ships


I also had a idea for a new weapon that may be used on dreads. I call it a ATP (Armoured Tacheyon Projectile) simple put a few tons of dense metal propeled on a non alterable course by a JDrive. Use would be destroying non moving targets from a great distance. This would greatly reduce planet and gate camping which would go along way to encourging active combat.

Damage would be total, deployment would be stopping dropping the weapon in space (it would have to be carried as cargo) and fireing it.

The ship would have to be stopped and charge the weapon from its own JDrive before unloading. Then it would be able to charge its own drive and leave after locking the target and fireing.

use on a planet should turn the fireing fleet red to every faction and fleet for the period of one week real time. The reason being is that the planet should be considered unihabitable and unable to be built on for 2 days real time. Should add a twist to the dip patch eh?

But really i like the idea of the weapon but dont know if it will be consider for the game, another use would be to load a sensor array on it and fire it into enemy space to spot ships. Non leatheal but interesting in application.




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[ This Message was edited by: HaVoK{Bomb $quad} on 2004-05-31 18:04 ]
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Dempster
Grand Admiral

Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 668
Posted: 2004-05-31 18:12   
I think these are Great Suggestions, the kinda thing ds could use, hope f reads this post.
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron


Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
Posted: 2004-05-31 18:24   
Quote:

On 2004-05-31 17:46, HaVoK{Bomb $quad} wrote:
I think that with the new release and the inclusion of the dip patch some changes wouldnt hurt.


the dip patch?

Quote:

One change to help promote fleets and fleet actions in the MV would go like this,

ship use in game play would be limited by fleet resources, meaning that if as a example.

Stations: one station per every 10 planets owned by a fleet (default 1 station per fleet with enough members for a forum.)

Dreads: one dread per every 3 planets owned by a fleet (default 2 dreads)

no limit on smaller ships

default means you get that number of ships plus the planetary number if you qualify in game play at the same time.

example 10 planets = 2 stations and 5 dreads in the game at the same time.

Given the harder to aquire nature of dreads and stations they should be much harder to kill. Dreads by their name alone should be able to fend of 3 to 4 cruisers with ease by way of more hull, amour and weaponry. Dreads should really only fear a large amount of smaller ships or other dreads. They also should incur a larger amount of lost pres for losing them. All the posts I have seen on stations being non moving and more dangerous to approach falls in with this as well. Self destructing should be met with a 3x the normal pres loss for wasting resources unless boarded.



When you say that Dreads should be able to fend off 3-4 cruisers with there name alone.. im not sure what your entirely getting at? Are you saying that a Dread alone should be able to out fight 3-4 cruisers based on a more Realistic view of Naval battle? bcus if thats the case then i hobe newbs dont get any high speed torpedo boats.. but all im saying is please Elaborate a bit more on what you mean. And how you would allow Smaller fleets to interact with larger fleets in your system of Fleet resourses

Quote:

Grand Admirals should recieve a bonus ship that no one else can get and only one could be in game play at a time. I would call it a capital ship and make its def and offensive capabilitys double that of a dread. It would also have the ability to use both WHII devices and jump drives but only be able to spawn at a faction gate. The reason for the gate thing would be that given its size it should be unable to orbit a planet and carry a very large amount of inf to be ferryed to planet side. It should have 2 reloads for itself only and unable to sup anyone else (thats what stations and sups are for). This would allow for a mobile combat comand vessel with the ablilty to provide troops for a system invasion with the support of a station for fleet maintenance.


Decent idea, I like the Wh2 device and the Personal reloads.. As a GA ive noticed that there isnt much we have to offer other than the normal station. I would probably buy a Year suscription in a heart beat if Faus put in some SSD with a wh2 and let it be a grand ship worthy of the game.


Quote:

I also had a idea for a new weapon that may be used on dreads. I call it a ATP (Armoured Tacheyon Projectile) simple put a few tons of dense metal propeled on a non alterable course by a JDrive. Use would be destroying non moving targets from a great distance. This would greatly reduce planet and gate camping which would go along way to encourging active combat.

Damage would be total, deployment would be stopping dropping the weapon in space (it would have to be carried as cargo) and fireing it.

The ship would have to be stopped and charge the weapon from its own JDrive before unloading. Then it would be able to charge its own drive and leave after locking the target and fireing.

use on a planet should turn the fireing fleet red to every faction and fleet for the period ofof one week real time. The reason being is that the planet should be considered unihabitable and unable to be built on for 2 days real time. Should add a twist to the dip patch eh?

But really i like the idea of the weapon but dont know if it will be consider for the game, another use would be to load a sensor array on it and fire it into enemy space to spot ships. Non leatheal but interesting in application.




hmmm interesting idea..
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HaVoX
Fleet Admiral

Joined: September 07, 2003
Posts: 269
From: Florida whoo hoo
Posted: 2004-05-31 18:34   
A answer to the following

When you say that Dreads should be able to fend off 3-4 cruisers with there name alone.. im not sure what your entirely getting at? Are you saying that a Dread alone should be able to out fight 3-4 cruisers based on a more Realistic view of Naval battle? bcus if thats the case then i hobe newbs dont get any high speed torpedo boats.. but all im saying is please Elaborate a bit more on what you mean. And how you would allow Smaller fleets to interact with larger fleets in your system of Fleet resourses



I ment that dreads are by thier name supposed to be big and dangerous, a well piloted AC or TC can eat them up. Thats why I say hype them up where they should be so they are truly Dreaded.

As to the smaller fleet thing, you get a certian amount of dreads automaticaly in any fleet size and a station if you can post a fleet forum. Fleets are about membership and there a great deal of small fleets not much used and there jsut to get a name. serious fleets will recruite or merge
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Lux (Polaris)
Fleet Admiral
Raven Warriors

Joined: April 20, 2004
Posts: 835
From: Asgard
Posted: 2004-05-31 18:35   
Quote:

On blabla, Switchblade wrote:
I would call the GA ships Capital Ships


I also had a idea for a new weapon that may be used on dreads. I call it a ATP (Armoured Tacheyon Projectile) simple put a few tons of dense metal propeled on a non alterable course by a JDrive. Use would be destroying non moving targets from a great distance. This would greatly reduce planet and gate camping which would go along way to encourging active combat.

Damage would be total, deployment would be stopping dropping the weapon in space (it would have to be carried as cargo) and fireing it.

The ship would have to be stopped and charge the weapon from its own JDrive before unloading. Then it would be able to charge its own drive and leave after locking the target and fireing.

use on a planet should turn the fireing fleet red to every faction and fleet for the period of one week real time. The reason being is that the planet should be considered unihabitable and unable to be built on for 2 days real time. Should add a twist to the dip patch eh?




I, just want to say call the ships Leviathan or Behemoth ships...also, that new projectile weapon is way too strong. It was confusing in the description so im just going to say how aobut it gets dreads to 1% and kills all the smaller class ships it hits, it would have a seperate slot for the weapon, not using the JD but have a 30 min timer, which resets once an SY is used. Thats my input.

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[ This Message was edited by: Kitsune[TNO's founder] on 2004-05-31 18:36 ]
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Loyal Admiral of the Interstellar Cultural Confederation Navy.
Senior Commander of the Raven Warriors, the ICC elite.
Captain of the Assault Dreadnaught \"Gungnir\"


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-DeathKitten- {ILJ}
Cadet

Joined: June 30, 2003
Posts: 18
From: ..?!?!?!...
Posted: 2004-05-31 19:20   
1 % hull? Ouch.. id hate to be a Dessie when that thing hits
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron


Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
Posted: 2004-05-31 19:35   
Quote:

On 2004-05-31 18:34, HaVoK{Bomb $quad} wrote:
A answer to the following

I ment that dreads are by thier name supposed to be big and dangerous, a well piloted AC or TC can eat them up. Thats why I say hype them up where they should be so they are truly Dreaded.



The Phrase "Dreadnought" comes from a saying on an Old Coat of Arms
{Fear God and Dreadnought}

Now, the Infamous Scharnhorst, was able to survive a 3hr pitched battle to just be Finished off by Torpedos in the end.

Scharnhorst

Dreadnoughts are the big guns of the fleet, but as you know just because your big, the only security you enjoy is being a bigger target.

Do i think that ICC Missle Dreads should be on the Front line all up in the mix trying to fend off 3 Cruisers.. No i dont think that was a smart choice for that Dread Cpt. but it happens all too often

Unfortunatly Ive seen that happen way to many times, Some Idiot that just got a "Dread" and either didnt understand the role it played or how to work in a fleet or maybe just was a lil to gungho..

Now, im not sure if youve read what the devs/creator wants but, i would bet you, that you nor I will ever see a "Stand alone" dread.. If you are looking for Combat along the Lines of the story of the Scharnhorst, then You better travel arround with a few supply ships at all times.. because a Dread in this game will allways be Best within a Fleet. .. Bottom line


Quote:

As to the smaller fleet thing, you get a certian amount of dreads automaticaly in any fleet size and a station if you can post a fleet forum. Fleets are about membership and there a great deal of small fleets not much used and there jsut to get a name. serious fleets will recruite or merge




So are you saying that Fleets should have a Fleet Storage Instead of a personal storage? so that fleets like PBand [Newb] can only field the same amount of dreads? nm im totally lost on what your trying to say on this fleet issue..
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HaVoX
Fleet Admiral

Joined: September 07, 2003
Posts: 269
From: Florida whoo hoo
Posted: 2004-05-31 22:36   
Never mind if you gont get it you wont

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[ This Message was edited by: HaVoK{Bomb $quad} on 2004-05-31 23:11 ]
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[Free]Dop-erwt
Cadet

Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 130
From: eindhoven, the netherlands
Posted: 2004-06-01 04:59   
i dont like to see a combat ship that is able to supply itself. i think tzunamii was the first with this bigger class ship and he wanted to name it's class Titan, and it shouldnt be a uber combat vessel just a multi purpuse ship.

btw couldnt we have bombs and mines that are interchangeble?
and that smaller cl's can be placed in the big slots(i hate wasting cl2k's on pd)
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Vendacious
Cadet

Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 5
From: Calgary
Posted: 2004-06-01 11:10   
I like the idea of long range weapons, but I don't like the idea that the tachyon projectile thingy disables building on a planet. People could just spam every planet in a system, rendering that system useless to everyone.

IMHO, the concept of cruise missles could be expanded upon. It was a good idea, just not very effective. Give them a small amount of shield or something, and make them interchangable with bombs.

And speaking of missiles, if humanity ever does get to the point were we colonize other planets and go to war with them, missiles would likely be the weapon of choice. It would be interesting to see this concept expanded/improved (ie more accurate, faster missles, more variety)

And yes, the GAs should get some sort of uber ship, just not a ship that is untouchable by anything else than another GA uber ship.

Stations should not be stationary, the should have a small amount of movement, and the WHII device, just like they do.

(edited for spelling and grammar)

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If there is nothing to fear but fear itself, then why does that dreadnought over there look so damned scary?

[ This Message was edited by: Vendacious on 2004-06-01 11:11 ]
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If there is nothing to fear but fear itself, then why does that dreadnought over there look so damned scary?

HaVoX
Fleet Admiral

Joined: September 07, 2003
Posts: 269
From: Florida whoo hoo
Posted: 2004-06-01 12:30   
The ATP weapon is a very realistic idea though, if humans has such tech in space you can be well asured that we would do something like that no matter the consequences, were just like that (nukes).
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Meko
Grand Admiral

Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
Posted: 2004-06-01 13:22   
What havocs trying to say is this:

The larger and more experianced your fleet is, and the more active it is, than the more ships it can have.

also the planets thing is a Great idea..... Id love to have "Fleet assets" actually mean somthing. and honestly, what motivation is thier to cap planets right now? a little bragging rights a little pres, the fun? well add "You can get bigger ships than cruisers" and then ppl will try to cap like crazy
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Grimith
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights


Joined: August 09, 2003
Posts: 836
From: Your local future farm.
Posted: 2004-06-01 14:49   
I read through the whole suggestion bloc twice, and I must say that I don't like almost all of Havok's suggestions... the only few I vaguely begin to consider are those that already have been talked about over and over (a GA ship and the Dreadnought having a little increase in power). They just... don't... eh... click, maybe? I don't know... it seems weird to be limiting fleets based on the amount of planets they have. There are those fleets that just don't get that lucky when it comes to planet capturing, so when another fleet's nametag is put on it, the little fleets don't get any plus to it? Great... joy... Then, there's also those people that don't like to do the hokey pokey with capturing planets. They'd rather rush ahead or spin around and shoot all the enemies trying to prevent the capture of the planet. And now you want to limit the ships they can bring out? I'm sorry... but... that just... doesn't make me go, "Wooh!"

This explosive device that you can send catapulting into planets... we just won't cover it...

I'm not a fan of big ships to begin with (mainly because I find more fun with scouts and frigates than I could possibly find in dreadnoughts), so making them as tough as you suggest doesn't float my boat.

The ideas that you suggest for the GA ship... well... you just keep suggesting...

Okay, so I'm not being constructive. I'm being destructive... So what? Big deal. Pull out a lawyer and sue me. I'm just offering some pennies up here for you people to marvel at.

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Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice... the dice are loaded. --- Chairman Sheng-ji Yang

[ This Message was edited by: Grimith J. Reaper on 2004-06-01 15:37 ]
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Meko
Grand Admiral

Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
Posted: 2004-06-02 12:39   
valid points griff, exept for not makign the dreads stronger. they need to be. there just no way a picket ship can take on a battleship. no matter Whos flying.

the reason for the fleet names on planets is unknown to me right now. were just trying to figure out a way to make them actually count.
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Spaceflower (Swe)
1st Rear Admiral

Joined: December 28, 2002
Posts: 73
From: Sweden
Posted: 2004-06-02 14:26   
I'm afraid I have to agree with Grim here for a bit. I don't like the idea of being forced to join a fleet just to get a CHANCE to pilot big ships in MV.
And i think it would be a cruching blow to those small fleets with only a few and perhaps unexperienced players. Who would like to join them? you won't gain anything, so why bother.

I do see your point in wanting to turn more interests to the fleets, to make players join them... If it's a problem that they don't. But i just think that this is not the right idea.



But that is only my personal opinion.

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